Vicious Cycle

#51
#51
jcvol87 said:
Observed this site for years, but only commented a few times. That being said, I want to discuss all of the negative regarding our coaches, past to present. Fulmer was behind the times in philosophy, Kiffin bailed, Dooley made a very poor decision in Sal Sunseri hire that cost him, Butch was incompetent, and now Pruitt is struggling in his first HC gig . We demand so much as fans which is understandable. All of the options, suggestions, and opinions had me wondering. If Saban, Meyer, Gruden, Cowher, or any other top names imaginable were the present coach with the same results, would you still be saying they are lost, in over their head, need to be fired, ect.??? The program has been in shambles long before the nose dive in 2008 and until we have 5 years minimum of consistency in recruiting and philosophy it's destined for failure. I agree with JG needing to be benched. I agree offensive play calling is vanilla and predictable, and I agree our defense is suspect, but the program needs a strong foundation and stability. If we continue with changes every 2-3 years in coaching we will remain the laughing stock.
The last 12 years of UT football has sucked and not sure if it ever gets back to the late 90's dominance, but I will continue to support the orange and white! What do the rest of volnation think?
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Finish 4th to 6 th in recruiting in SEC Year in & year out will keep you were you’re at. Got to get a DYNAMIC true dual threat QB & that will pull the whole team out of Quagmire. Clemson did it with Tajg Boyd SEC is bigger hill. It will not happen without a lucky or however you get him dynamic QB. That auto helps recruiting.We will be here in mediocrity till that happens.
 
#52
#52
hog88 said:
If JG is still the best option we have at QB after 3 recruiting classes that is an indictment of the coaching staff.
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Because highly rated recruits that weren’t alive the last time Tennessee was decent will suddenly believe that the 4th rebuilding coach is the one.
or
Maybe it will take a couple years before they start to believe like HB. Oh and maybe Salter.
If we didn’t land HB and have Salter committed (early enrollee who supposedly sent Some paperwork in this morning) I might be more to your side as opposed to don’t know.
And before we start crying about the freshman not being out there maybe we should see how much practice he missed because of Covid related issues.

At this point I have no idea if CJP will learn to be a good coach but I’m also willing to look into why. It also doesn’t hurt that I understand my university is a cluster **** at hiring coaches and just doesn’t care about winning. And I’m pretty sure they are not making a move any time soon.
 
#53
#53
Orangeslice13 said:
Because highly rated recruits that weren’t alive the last time Tennessee was decent will suddenly believe that the 4th rebuilding coach is the one.
or
Maybe it will take a couple years before they start to believe like HB. Oh and maybe Salter.
If we didn’t land HB and have Salter committed (early enrollee who supposedly sent Some paperwork in this morning) I might be more to your side as opposed to don’t know.
And before we start crying about the freshman not being out there maybe we should see how much practice he missed because of Covid related issues.

At this point I have no idea if CJP will learn to be a good coach but I’m also willing to look into why. It also doesn’t hurt that I understand my university is a cluster **** at hiring coaches and just doesn’t care about winning. And I’m pretty sure they are not making a move any time soon.
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I'm not crying about Bailey not being out there, I fully understand why he's not ready. But come on, the rest of your post is really bad excuses for not getting at least a serviceable SEC QB or coaching up BM or Shrout to take the job.
 
#54
#54
sechamp2012 said:
Finish 4th to 6 th in recruiting in SEC Year in & year out will keep you were you’re at. Got to get a DYNAMIC true dual threat QB & that will pull the whole team out of Quagmire. Clemson did it with Tajg Boyd SEC is bigger hill. It will not happen without a lucky or however you get him dynamic QB. That auto helps recruiting.We will be here in mediocrity till that happens.
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It just isn't going to be possible to recruit at the level of Bama, UGA, and LSU right now. That would remain true even if UT were to land some hypothetical "big fish" coach.

Frankly, I'd be content if we had the 4th best team in the SEC right now.
 
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#55
#55
hog88 said:
I'm not crying about Bailey not being out there, I fully understand why he's not ready. But come on, the rest of your post is really bad excuses for not getting at least a serviceable SEC QB or coaching up BM or Shrout to take the job.
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Crying wasn’t aimed at you.
not an excuse but a possibility
BM has been injured and has psychological issues that could be in play. He wasn’t available even though dressed till this week. And the other guy Shrout was an unlikely project from the beginning. If I was in practice I might just go with HB and hand the ball off most times. Or put a receiver at QB. The sad reality is JG May be the best option as everyone else is worse. Look at it this way. If you and I were the backups because we were the best he could land his first 2 classes then no coaching in the world would help you and me be better than JG.
 
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#57
#57
JMSqb11 said:
History literally said otherwise.......
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No, history absolutely points to me being correct. In his last 8 seasons as a head coach he had a losing record (bad losing record) against GA, FL and AL and he had something like a 17-25 record against top 25 teams. Not to mention 2 losing seasons and 2 loses to Vandy.
 
#58
#58
hog88 said:
No, history absolutely points to me being correct. In his last 8 seasons as a head coach he had a losing record (bad losing record) against GA, FL and AL and he had something like a 17-25 record against top 25 teams. Not to mention 2 losing seasons and 2 loses to Vandy.
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History says we were going to SEC title game every 3 years. Fulmer changed and we haven't been in 13-14 years.

History says anytime we won 8 or less games under Fulmer, the next year was an average 3 win improvement the next season

History says that Fulmer had reversed the recruiting slump by having a top 3 class at the time he was let go.

History also says Fulmer only had 1 loss to Vandy........

So please tell me how history said our program was in shambles as you put. Hell you can't even get your facts straight.
 
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#60
#60
Orangeslice13 said:
Crying wasn’t aimed at you.
not an excuse but a possibility
BM has been injured and has psychological issues that could be in play. He wasn’t available even though dressed till this week. And the other guy Shrout was an unlikely project from the beginning. If I was in practice I might just go with HB and hand the ball off most times. Or put a receiver at QB. The sad reality is JG May be the best option as everyone else is worse. Look at it this way. If you and I were the backups because we were the best he could land his first 2 classes then no coaching in the world would help you and me be better than JG.
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I think it would be easier for fans to support a losing team if they saw the young guys, particularly the young highly rated skill players, out there making some good plays mixed in with the mistakes. If we can't win, let's at least make it exciting, maybe even fun, to watch.
 
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#61
#61
hog88 said:
No, history absolutely points to me being correct. In his last 8 seasons as a head coach he had a losing record (bad losing record) against GA, FL and AL and he had something like a 17-25 record against top 25 teams. Not to mention 2 losing seasons and 2 loses to Vandy.
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I miss those days with a .400 win pct against top 25 teams. 9-10 wins per season, with a stumble every 3rd or 4th year sounds pretty good right now.
 
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#62
#62
VolunteerHillbilly said:
I think it would be easier for fans to support a losing team if they saw the young guys, particularly the young highly rated skill players, out there making some good plays mixed in with the mistakes. If we can't win, let's at least make it exciting, maybe even fun, to watch.
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Again I have no idea what the thought process is. I just know that the 2 backups worth seeing were either unavailable or missed massive amounts of practice due to Covid.

But as I already said I might have played HB and run the ball 75% of the time.
 
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#63
#63
CA_Vol said:
Pruitt will be here another two years because Fulmer stupidly gave him an extension, and the athletic program will be in shambles due to COVID.

He will be gone after that. He is a 7-5 coach without absolute ELITE talent, which he can’t get enough of, because he’s a 7-5 coach.

To put it simply, we are a mid-tier program in perpetuity.
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You are being too nice to JP. Not sure he could Bama to 7 & 5.
 
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#64
#64
JMSqb11 said:
History says we were going to SEC title game every 3 years. Fulmer changed and we haven't been in 13-14 years.

History says anytime we won 8 or less games under Fulmer, the next year was an average 3 win improvement the next season

History says that Fulmer had reversed the recruiting slump by having a top 3 class at the time he was let go.

History also says Fulmer only had 1 loss to Vandy........

So please tell me how history said our program was in shambles as you put. Hell you can't even get your facts straight.
Click to expand...

Losing record against GA, FL and AL. Losing record against ranked teams over his last 8 seasons. Blowing 2 SECCGs. 2 losing seasons.

It's you that needs to get their facts straight, Fulmer needed to go.
 
#66
#66
SpookyAction said:
I miss those days with a .400 win pct against top 25 teams. 9-10 wins per season, with a stumble every 3rd or 4th year sounds pretty good right now.
Click to expand...

Accepting mediocrity in lieu of failure is still failure.
 
#69
#69
jcvol87 said:
Observed this site for years, but only commented a few times. That being said, I want to discuss all of the negative regarding our coaches, past to present. Fulmer was behind the times in philosophy, Kiffin bailed, Dooley made a very poor decision in Sal Sunseri hire that cost him, Butch was incompetent, and now Pruitt is struggling in his first HC gig . We demand so much as fans which is understandable. All of the options, suggestions, and opinions had me wondering. If Saban, Meyer, Gruden, Cowher, or any other top names imaginable were the present coach with the same results, would you still be saying they are lost, in over their head, need to be fired, ect.??? The program has been in shambles long before the nose dive in 2008 and until we have 5 years minimum of consistency in recruiting and philosophy it's destined for failure. I agree with JG needing to be benched. I agree offensive play calling is vanilla and predictable, and I agree our defense is suspect, but the program needs a strong foundation and stability. If we continue with changes every 2-3 years in coaching we will remain the laughing stock.
The last 12 years of UT football has sucked and not sure if it ever gets back to the late 90's dominance, but I will continue to support the orange and white! What do the rest of volnation think?
Click to expand...
Program will not change with Pruitt.
 
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#70
#70
Sometimes you have to be patient and let the coach grow into the role. There have been signs that he's capable of moving this program forward and he certainly knows what a championship program looks like. There's also been signs that he's still figuring things out. I think there have been a lot of positives, although the team is inconsistent. Butch had five years, and he really only got that because of a very dynamic player in Dobbs kept the team competitive. Could you see any of Butch's seasons being above 5-7 without Dobbs? I couldn't. Pruitt has had some success without having that dynamic player that can carry the team. Find that guy, and this program will take off because all the other pieces are being put in place. Just my thoughts.
 
#71
#71
Sarms58 said:
So many have a Nintendo mindset and believe replacing a coach is just like hitting reset - you start fresh on even footing and can immediately compete for championships. The reality is every time you swap out the coach you lose ground on everyone else. Up til now that lost ground has primarily been in recruiting and maybe a few players transferring out. Under the proposed one time transfer/immediate eligibility rule to be approve in January, transfer losses could increase significantly.
I believe Fulmer should be coaching/mentoring Pruitt to help him make good decisions with staff. He should help Pruitt bring in coordinators who are potential head coaches. Ideally you hire your future replacement.
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That is what PF was scared of. He would never hire anyone he felt could replace him
 
#72
#72
hog88 said:
Losing record against GA, FL and AL. Losing record against ranked teams over his last 8 seasons. Blowing 2 SECCGs. 2 losing seasons.

It's you that needs to get their facts straight, Fulmer needed to go.
Click to expand...

So now you are changing your argument and moving the goalposts after getting your "argument" blown wide ass open...... History and trends literally proved every point you made wrong........ And so now you have changed from "program in shambles" to "well we were going to SEC title games regularly but we blew them".......

A program in shambles doesn't consistently go to the SEC title game in Atlanta......
 
#73
#73
JMSqb11 said:
So now you are changing your argument and moving the goalposts after getting your "argument" blown wide ass open...... History and trends literally proved every point you made wrong........ And so now you have changed from "program in shambles" to "well we were going to SEC title games regularly but we blew them".......

A program in shambles doesn't consistently go to the SEC title game in Atlanta......
Click to expand...

I haven't moved the goalposts 1 bit. I have presented straight up facts, you keep looking at them through rose colored glasses. We could no longer compete whith the top of the conference, we were getting blown out at home and hadn't been relevant since 2001, so what if we made it to the SECCG twice in that time frame? We lost to inferior teams when we got there, we lost to inferior teams in the bowl games we played in.
 
#75
#75
hog88 said:
I haven't moved the goalposts 1 bit. I have presented straight up facts, you keep looking at them through rose colored glasses. We could no longer compete whith the top of the conference, we were getting blown out at home and hadn't been relevant since 2001, so what if we made it to the SECCG twice in that time frame? We lost to inferior teams when we got there, we lost to inferior teams in the bowl games we played in.
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You said Fulmer had the program in shambles. What about going to Sec Title game every 3 years and improving wins by 3 games anytime we won 8 games or less in a season.......

If that is shambles, I'd love to get your description of what program is in currently.

And that is the beauty about history. You can't twist it. Fact is the program was more volatile with up and down years, but it wasn't in shambles. You'd be a fool to think it was.
 
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