Vicious Cycle

#27
#27
On, that all changed in 2001 when Saban beat Tennessee in the SEC championship game and the conference began its rapid transformation into what it is today, Fulmer lost touch with the game, talent, expectations and the Tennessee fan base and the program has lost touch with the commitment that it takes to be competitive in the SEC, however the Tennessee fan base has not.
 
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#29
#29
jcvol87 said:
Observed this site for years, but only commented a few times. That being said, I want to discuss all of the negative regarding our coaches, past to present. Fulmer was behind the times in philosophy, Kiffin bailed, Dooley made a very poor decision in Sal Sunseri hire that cost him, Butch was incompetent, and now Pruitt is struggling in his first HC gig . We demand so much as fans which is understandable. All of the options, suggestions, and opinions had me wondering. If Saban, Meyer, Gruden, Cowher, or any other top names imaginable were the present coach with the same results, would you still be saying they are lost, in over their head, need to be fired, ect.??? The program has been in shambles long before the nose dive in 2008 and until we have 5 years minimum of consistency in recruiting and philosophy it's destined for failure. I agree with JG needing to be benched. I agree offensive play calling is vanilla and predictable, and I agree our defense is suspect, but the program needs a strong foundation and stability. If we continue with changes every 2-3 years in coaching we will remain the laughing stock.
The last 12 years of UT football has sucked and not sure if it ever gets back to the late 90's dominance, but I will continue to support the orange and white! What do the rest of volnation think?
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Why does everyone keep saying we fire coaches adter 2 or 3 years? It hurts the rest of your argument when you present untruths as facts.


Dooley was fired after 3 years ...but he is the only one...

And we all know CJP aint going anywhere until the end of 2021 at the earliest.
 
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#30
#30
shane80 said:
I couldn't agree more. I am no fan of JG's on field play. However, I admire the way Pruitt sticks to his guns. Building a foundation has to start somewhere. Bottom line is this is the coach we have. If he thinks this is way to build a program we should stick with him. Sooner or later something will give one way or the other.
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Pruitt did not coach to win or even try to play a competitive game against Alabama. First time Inhabe seem that in 50 years of watching football.
Three strikes as far as I’m concerned. With Pruitt we will never get the program back to 90’s levels.
 
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#32
#32
dobre_shunka said:
Seems some are remembering only the positives from Fulmer's time. It was definitely better than the current situation but not without issues. The almost guaranteed annual choke job vs Spurrier and Florida, a loss to Memphis inspite of an overwhelming edge in talent, blowing the SEC title game vs Saban and LSU, a total of 2 conference championships in 17 seasons, etc.
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Of course they do. All of us living and breathing only can enjoy the Neyland years in old film clips, and reading history books. None of them experienced the national championship euphoria Robert Neyland brought us. We were not alive for it. But many of us were when Phillip Fulmer brought it to us. And it tasted good. But aside from 1998? That and his record was all his supporters could bring up to argue for not firing him.

But for some odd reason, I feel what led to his firing more than anything was his failure to take ownership for the teams behavior. Bunches of fans were tired of the growing number of arrests. I remember one interview when he was asked how he was going to address this situation. He said, "They have my phone number." Not exactly inspirational. I think he felt that one national championship would buy him control of his destiny, and he would get carte blanche to retire on his terms. But the fanbase rightly expected more. Of course, the Clawfence was the final nail in the coffin, but the box got assembled, and the lid and hinges and other hardware got added because the team lacked discipline and his statements convinced many he was not running the team well.

Sadly, the choices of guys like Hamilton and Hart led to further decline,
 
#33
#33
GetYouSomeofThat said:
Why does everyone keep saying we fire coaches after 2 or 3 years? It hurts the rest of your argument when you present untruths as facts.


Dooley was fired after 3 years ...but he is the only one...

And we all know CJP aint going anywhere until the end of 2021 at the earliest.
Click to expand...


They don't fire coaches after 2 or 3 years. But a good portion of the fans are usually calling for them to be fired in that time. And that is not an untruth. As to Pruitt not going anywhere? I don't know that. The end of 2021 hasn't gotten here yet.
 
#35
#35
TNnative said:
They don't fire coaches after 2 or 3 years. But a good portion of the fans are usually calling for them to be fired in that time. And that is not an untruth. As to Pruitt not going anywhere? I don't know that. The end of 2021 hasn't gotten here yet.
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My intent was to be round about and in general of the common complaints as fans, thank you for seeing what I meant. I do not know the right answer, just see that our continuous move has produced the same results.
 
#36
#36
jcvol87 said:
Observed this site for years, but only commented a few times. That being said, I want to discuss all of the negative regarding our coaches, past to present. Fulmer was behind the times in philosophy, Kiffin bailed, Dooley made a very poor decision in Sal Sunseri hire that cost him, Butch was incompetent, and now Pruitt is struggling in his first HC gig . We demand so much as fans which is understandable. All of the options, suggestions, and opinions had me wondering. If Saban, Meyer, Gruden, Cowher, or any other top names imaginable were the present coach with the same results, would you still be saying they are lost, in over their head, need to be fired, ect.??? The program has been in shambles long before the nose dive in 2008 and until we have 5 years minimum of consistency in recruiting and philosophy it's destined for failure. I agree with JG needing to be benched. I agree offensive play calling is vanilla and predictable, and I agree our defense is suspect, but the program needs a strong foundation and stability. If we continue with changes every 2-3 years in coaching we will remain the laughing stock.
The last 12 years of UT football has sucked and not sure if it ever gets back to the late 90's dominance, but I will continue to support the orange and white! What do the rest of volnation think?
Click to expand...


Funny how other teams turn it around in 2--3 years; and some even show vast improvement in year One; with Virtually the same players?? Minny, Smu, NORTH CAROLINA, Cincy, Liberty, Kstate, shall I continue?
 
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#37
#37
jcvol87 said:
Observed this site for years, but only commented a few times. That being said, I want to discuss all of the negative regarding our coaches, past to present. Fulmer was behind the times in philosophy, Kiffin bailed, Dooley made a very poor decision in Sal Sunseri hire that cost him, Butch was incompetent, and now Pruitt is struggling in his first HC gig . We demand so much as fans which is understandable. All of the options, suggestions, and opinions had me wondering. If Saban, Meyer, Gruden, Cowher, or any other top names imaginable were the present coach with the same results, would you still be saying they are lost, in over their head, need to be fired, ect.??? The program has been in shambles long before the nose dive in 2008 and until we have 5 years minimum of consistency in recruiting and philosophy it's destined for failure. I agree with JG needing to be benched. I agree offensive play calling is vanilla and predictable, and I agree our defense is suspect, but the program needs a strong foundation and stability. If we continue with changes every 2-3 years in coaching we will remain the laughing stock.
The last 12 years of UT football has sucked and not sure if it ever gets back to the late 90's dominance, but I will continue to support the orange and white! What do the rest of volnation think?
Click to expand...

We went to the SEC title game the year before Fulmer was fired..... So much for being in shambles long before 2008..... Hell we were going to SEC title game every 3 years at minimum since the Natty.
 
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#38
#38
JohnWardForever said:
Funny how other teams turn it around in 2--3 years; and some even show vast improvement in year One; with Virtually the same players?? Minny, Smu, NORTH CAROLINA, Cincy, Liberty, Kstate, shall I continue?
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Literally non of those programs play a fraction of the schedule we do.

While i'm not making excuses, Tennessee is still rebuilding and anytime a new hire is made because of a firing, a coach is walking into a job where they are guaranteed 3 losses at minimum every year for the first 2-3 years and potentially a 4th and 5th depending on non conference schedule and SEC West rotation........

Literally. all of those programs maybe have 1-2 tough games on their schedule if that.
 
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#39
#39
JMSqb11 said:
We went to the SEC title game the year before Fulmer was fired..... So much for being in shambles long before 2008..... Hell we were going to SEC title game every 3 years at minimum since the Natty.
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Look at Phils record since 2001 against top 10 teams and tell me how we were not in shambles? Phil needed to go in 2005.
 
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#40
#40
hog88 said:
Look at Phils record since 2001 against top 10 teams and tell me how we were not in shambles? Phil needed to go in 2005.
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Once again, the program wasn't in shambles.

If going to the SEC title game every 3 years on average is "shambles", I'd love to know what you'd call the program state right now.
 
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#41
#41
JMSqb11 said:
Once again, the program wasn't in shambles.

If going to the SEC title game every 3 years on average is "shambles", I'd love to know what you'd call the program state right now.
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He was trending downward fast. he would have never made it back after 2007
 
#43
#43
So many have a Nintendo mindset and believe replacing a coach is just like hitting reset - you start fresh on even footing and can immediately compete for championships. The reality is every time you swap out the coach you lose ground on everyone else. Up til now that lost ground has primarily been in recruiting and maybe a few players transferring out. Under the proposed one time transfer/immediate eligibility rule to be approve in January, transfer losses could increase significantly.
I believe Fulmer should be coaching/mentoring Pruitt to help him make good decisions with staff. He should help Pruitt bring in coordinators who are potential head coaches. Ideally you hire your future replacement.
 
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#44
#44
shane80 said:
I couldn't agree more. I am no fan of JG's on field play. However, I admire the way Pruitt sticks to his guns. Building a foundation has to start somewhere. Bottom line is this is the coach we have. If he thinks this is way to build a program we should stick with him. Sooner or later something will give one way or the other.
Click to expand...

As with JG, folks talk about ceiling and potential. CJP knows that JG is the best option right now to win and that's obvious. We don't know the misreads, INT's thrown in practice, lack of understanding the offense, not knowing where to go with the ball etc from our other QB's. We have to trust our staff. It's not like they are throwing games and not trying to win or get the team preparing to go out and execute. Somenact like we are on our with Bama, but the reality of it all is that we aren't there yet. With all the tio recruiting classes UGa has brought in lately and they still can't get it done. We're just not there yet.
 
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#45
#45
MiramarVol said:
As with JG, folks talk about ceiling and potential. CJP knows that JG is the best option right now to win and that's obvious. We don't know the misreads, INT's thrown in practice, lack of understanding the offense, not knowing where to go with the ball etc from our other QB's. We have to trust our staff. It's not like they are throwing games and not trying to win or get the team preparing to go out and execute. Somenact like we are on our with Bama, but the reality of it all is that we aren't there yet. With all the tio recruiting classes UGa has brought in lately and they still can't get it done. We're just not there yet.
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If JG is still the best option we have at QB after 3 recruiting classes that is an indictment of the coaching staff.
 
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#46
#46
hog88 said:
If JG is still the best option we have at QB after 3 recruiting classes that is an indictment of the coaching staff.
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Coaches didn't have time to work with Bailey in the off season. I think if it weren't for the covid situation you would have already seen a QB change.
 
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#47
#47
shane80 said:
Coaches didn't have time to work with Bailey in the off season. I think if it weren't for the covid situation you would have already seen a QB change.
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Bailey isn't the only QB on the roster or recruited by Pruitt.
 
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#48
#48
I know it was forever ago, but Neyland was brought in to beat Dan McGugin and make this championship program. Times were different with ties, no divisions, and co-championships, but from the time of the General's arrival to the early 2000s, Vols fans could count on a couple of conference titles per decade and being a legitimate national championship contender at least as often. The 70s sucked because Dickey left, we hired a fine gentleman but terrible coach in Battle, and nobody could beat the Bear. Otherwise, it's perfectly reasonable for Vols fans to expect the program to be restored to its historic and rightful success level. We just need the right people in charge. Pruitt is obviously not the answer. If we were just a QB away, we would've gotten one of the high profile transfers looking for a platform to showcase his skills for the draft. A healthy program does not fire assistant coaches four games into a two-year contract. The team is still quitting on the field once the score looks out of hand. The rot is deep in the program and that should not be the case in year three. The UTAD needs to be looking around now, perfecting his list and getting ready to make a bold move next season if things don't improve dramatically. I'm hoping that we will have a lot of tough games early in 2021 so we can all see whether or not progress is occurring and, if not, Fulmer can get out of the gate early.
 
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#49
#49
I hate to say this, but Dooley kinda won me over on the idea that you have to extend a coach's contract before you fire him. They always do, and the reason why is beautifully illustrated by Sunseri. If the university lets you know that you're going to get eliminated at the end of your contract, the staff looks for jobs and you lose some of them. That whole "vote of confidence" thing used to seem weird, but it seems less weird now.

I do think there is every reason to think other people have caught up on facilities, and obviously others have gotten far ahead on dynastic results. The number of football players out there that would pick Tennessee obviously doesn't advantage Tennessee all that much. So it's hard to see how you really recruit much better than we already do. On the other hand, if you start paying players through merchandising image and likeness, the money is there. That works to Tennessee's advantage, I think. In any case, you're going to have to work hard for whatever results you get. The idea of entitlement is pretty toxic, and that is driving the process of repeated failure.

I am a big fan of coaching consistency, and giving a guy a long story arc, and I've mentioned that many times, but it doesn't really matter what I think. I don't give them any money at all, so what they do is really none of my business. For me, the last 10 years went exactly like I expected, although I was mildly surprised when John Curry got fired and flat out surprised when Davenport lost her position. But again, it's none of my business what they do. I am not the one shelling out the money.
 
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#50
#50
Once the Battered Vol Syndrome really sets in, it's a hard road to travel. You tell yourself it's you. You tell yourself it's not their fault, you just don't love them enough. If you just love them a little harder, things will be alright. If you look for the good, hold it close, then the bad won't seem too bad at all. The anxiety, the sadness, it's just in your head. If you put on a happy face, and just don't look at that lousy scoreboard, why, everything will be right as rain.

Kidding aside, I think it all looks like a program that seems hellbent on taking half measures for whole problems. Maybe the reasons are good ones. I wouldn't know, I'm just a fan. But all I see is a lot of mediocrity and RICK BARNES. I hope that guy sticks around ten years, because we need something to be positive about.

And you know, even if someone were to tell me "it's going to get better," I wouldn't care to believe them. Maybe they're right. Maybe they're wrong. I don't know that it'll matter. It's been 15 years since Tennessee mattered, save the Battle at Bristol, Dobbs Heaves It, and maybe the Gator Bowl last year. That's it. That's all there is. Most of Tennessee's "epic moments" of the last ten years are about things other teams did to us. You know what we called that back in the day? Vanderbilt.
 
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