Vaccine or not?

[Rasputin_Vol]

Just calling bull **** where I see it
And the fact remains that Covid causes more cardiovascular disease issues than the vaccine you crusade against

Possibly.

But the vaccine doesn't stop infection.

So why throw in an added unknown risk factor (the jab) on top of the risk that is associated with C-19?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

View attachment 531851

Hmmmm.... that sounds like they are running out in front of some future litigation. They won't approve athletes to compete unless they get tested? WOW...

 

[ButchPlz]

Possibly.

But the vaccine doesn't stop infection.

So why throw in an added unknown risk factor (the jab) on top of the risk that is associated with C-19?

I didn't get it even when it came out because:
1. I'm not an early adopter in any technology, why would I rush to put something untested in my body?
2. The data around efficacy at the time was coming entirely from big pharma companies as if we were all to ignore their billions of reasons to fabricate, obfuscate, and manipulate everything.
3. Data on actual COVID infection impacts for people with my age and health showed it was no worse than a cold for 99.999% of us, and at the stage of the pandemic when the shots came out the infectiousness data for COVID showed I was very unlikely to transmit it to someone even if I did have it.

I made a data-driven decision that aligned with my own health goals. Simple as that.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Possibly.

But the vaccine doesn't stop infection.

So why throw in an added unknown risk factor (the jab) on top of the risk that is associated with C-19?

Fewer died with the vaccine. That’s what the numbers say.
You didn’t take it and that’s absolutely your right. Others took it and that’s their right.

so we don’t go down this stupid “whatabout” rabbit hole.
Private businesses mandate…ok
Government mandate…..bad.

Your freedom to choose…..good
You suppressing those who want to take the vaccine…..just as bad as the government mandate fools.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Fewer died with the vaccine. That’s what the numbers say.
You didn’t take it and that’s absolutely your right. Others took it and that’s their right.

Here you go with your "statistics" from these captured three letter agencies and Big Pharma. GIGO...

so we don’t go down this stupid “whatabout” rabbit hole.
Private businesses mandate…ok
Government mandate…..bad.

Before March 2020, I would have been in full agreement with this sentiment. But here is the problem, the libertarian/laissez-faire
argument goes out the window when you have fascism/corporatism. Once you have the govt using coercion on the private sector or when you have private sector entities working together in collusion, that is where we have a problem. The rights of the individual should trump any govt mandate or any private sector collusion.

Your freedom to choose…..good
You suppressing those who want to take the vaccine…..just as bad as the government mandate fools.

I never knew there was a movement or thing out here that wanted to suppress the ability of people to take the jab. Again, you are pulling out something that is news to me. The only suppression I've seen has been on the opposing side, where they suppress the use of horse paste, vitamin C/D/zinc, fish tank cleaner, natural immunity or any other alternative treatment outside of the approved agenda.

 

[Rifleman]

Fewer died with the vaccine. That’s what the numbers say.
You didn’t take it and that’s absolutely your right. Others took it and that’s their right.

so we don’t go down this stupid “whatabout” rabbit hole.
Private businesses mandate…ok
Government mandate…..bad.

Your freedom to choose…..good
You suppressing those who want to take the vaccine…..just as bad as the government mandate fools.

Calm and reasonable and talking common sense 1,000 pages into this thread? The suffering of being a Vols football fan can prepare a man for anything.

 

[Sandman 423]

Fewer died with the vaccine. That’s what the numbers say.
You didn’t take it and that’s absolutely your right. Others took it and that’s their right.

so we don’t go down this stupid “whatabout” rabbit hole.
Private businesses mandate…ok
Government mandate…..bad.

Your freedom to choose…..good
You suppressing those who want to take the vaccine…..just as bad as the government mandate fools.

Only one issue with the private business part. If a company requires you to have a vaccination and it injures or kills you, are they culpable?

 

[VolinWayne]

Only one issue with the private business part. If a company requires you to have a vaccination and it injures or kills you, are they culpable?

They absolutely should be if that's what killed you.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Here you go with your "statistics" from these captured three letter agencies and Big Pharma. GIGO...


Before March 2020, I would have been in full agreement with this sentiment. But here is the problem, the libertarian/laissez-faire
argument goes out the window when you have fascism/corporatism. Once you have the govt using coercion on the private sector or when you have private sector entities working together in collusion, that is where we have a problem. The rights of the individual should trump any govt mandate or any private sector collusion.


I never knew there was a movement or thing out here that wanted to suppress the ability of people to take the jab. Again, you are pulling out something that is news to me. The only suppression I've seen has been on the opposing side, where they suppress the use of horse paste, vitamin C/D/zinc, fish tank cleaner, natural immunity or any other alternative treatment outside of the approved agenda.

Statically speaking is better than your feelies

 

[Orangeslice13]

Only one issue with the private business part. If a company requires you to have a vaccination and it injures or kills you, are they culpable?

Hypothetically yes.
In this case it will be nearly impossible to prove where the harm came from (vaccine vs Covid)
I say let the courts decide.
In this case winning in court appears unlikely

In my case I passed the Buck to the clients.
We did not require it as a business but employees could not work for people who did.

 

[Orangeslice13]

They absolutely should be if that's what killed you.

Proving that in court is very unlikely

 

[VolinWayne]

Proving that in court is very unlikely

It would definitely take a doctor who would not be worried about having his career ruined by the upper echelon.
I was talking to a contractor yesterday who said his doctor told him the heart attack he had was caused by the vaccine.

 

[VolinWayne]

Some interesting data on excess mortality coming out of Germany.

Info Institute is "surprised" by the increase in excess mortality in Germany for the year 2022.

They say "The exact reasons for this are still unclear." Does nobody think its strange that excess mortality went up after vaccines were introduced. Of the vaccines were working properly the excess mortality should have went down.

In den Corona-Jahren starben 180.000 Menschen mehr als unter normalen Umständen erwartet

This article is in German so I went ahead and copied the translation

In the Corona years, 180,000 more people died than expected under normal circumstances
In the Corona years 2020 to 2022, around 180,000 more people died in Germany than would have been expected. This is the result of calculations by the ifo institute on excess mortality. "The elderly were particularly poorly protected," says Joachim Ragnitz, deputy head of the Dresden branch of the Ifo. In the 80+ age group alone, 116,000 more people died than would have been usual, in the 60 to 79 age group it was 51,000. In the large age group of 30 to 59 years, on the other hand, there were only 12,000 additional deaths, and among the 0 to 29 year olds only around 900.

The excess mortality rate per 100,000 inhabitants was 640 in the 80+ age group, and 92 in the age group 60 to 79 years below. In the two younger age groups, the relative excess mortality was much lower, namely 12 and 1.

"It is surprising that excess mortality accelerated again in 2022," says Ragnitz. There were around 39,000 additional deaths in 2020, 68,000 a year later and almost 74,000 in 2022. “The exact reasons for this are still unclear. The heat waves in the summer and the flu outbreaks at the end of the year may also have played a role,” he adds.

To calculate the expected number of deaths, the ifo Institute takes the average for the years 2016 to 2019 before the Corona period and adjusts it for changes in the age structure and increasing life expectancy.

 

[VolinWayne]

Brianne Dressen: Gaslit by Doctors and Loved Ones, Some Vaccine-Injured Are Making the Ultimate Choice to End Their Suffering

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

Some interesting data on excess mortality coming out of Germany.

Info Institute is "surprised" by the increase in excess mortality in Germany for the year 2022.

They say "The exact reasons for this are still unclear." Does nobody think its strange that excess mortality went up after vaccines were introduced. Of the vaccines were working properly the excess mortality should have went down.

In den Corona-Jahren starben 180.000 Menschen mehr als unter normalen Umständen erwartet

This article is in German so I went ahead and copied the translation

In the Corona years, 180,000 more people died than expected under normal circumstances
In the Corona years 2020 to 2022, around 180,000 more people died in Germany than would have been expected. This is the result of calculations by the ifo institute on excess mortality. "The elderly were particularly poorly protected," says Joachim Ragnitz, deputy head of the Dresden branch of the Ifo. In the 80+ age group alone, 116,000 more people died than would have been usual, in the 60 to 79 age group it was 51,000. In the large age group of 30 to 59 years, on the other hand, there were only 12,000 additional deaths, and among the 0 to 29 year olds only around 900.

The excess mortality rate per 100,000 inhabitants was 640 in the 80+ age group, and 92 in the age group 60 to 79 years below. In the two younger age groups, the relative excess mortality was much lower, namely 12 and 1.

"It is surprising that excess mortality accelerated again in 2022," says Ragnitz. There were around 39,000 additional deaths in 2020, 68,000 a year later and almost 74,000 in 2022. “The exact reasons for this are still unclear. The heat waves in the summer and the flu outbreaks at the end of the year may also have played a role,” he adds.

To calculate the expected number of deaths, the ifo Institute takes the average for the years 2016 to 2019 before the Corona period and adjusts it for changes in the age structure and increasing life expectancy.

There were over 165K COVID deaths from 20-22 in Germany. That explains the bulk of the 180K...

 

[NurseGoodVol]

You're weird.

Nurses are weird, I concur.

 

[hog88]

Nurses are weird, I concur.

All the ones I know sure are.

 

[VolStrom]

There were over 165K COVID deaths from 20-22 in Germany. That explains the bulk of the 180K...

Covid deaths or deaths with Covid?

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

Covid deaths or deaths with Covid?

Unsure how Germany reports it. To my knowledge, they don't incentivize post mortem testing to determine COVID like they do in certain hospitals here...

 

[Sgt_Nick_Fury]

Statically speaking is better than your feelies

You stats are imaginary though. Because as it has been elucidated the reporting simply isn't happening, so as damning as the numbers currently are they still do not remotely tell just how bad things are because VAERS numbers were never mean to be accurate, rather it is meant to be cover.


For the record I know you to be a good man Slice. But for your own sake and your family I hope you open your eyes before real regrets.

 

[Sgt_Nick_Fury]

Nurses are weird, I concur.

They may be weird but they are our final angels when we need them most. I can never in my lifetime repay the nurses that got me through delta and all the nastiness that comes with being stuck in a hospital bed for weeks on end. Those nurses all had 1000 yard stares and were literally going through ptsd not unlike soldiers on the frontlines for months, and yet never seemed to lose compassion, never seemed to forget you were a human being....which means what they were going through hurt that much more. It would have been easier to harden their hearts. Also the techs....I went back to my hospital recently to do a Echocardiogram when I was having some leg issues (venus insufficiency), I started talking to the tech about Delta as he had been there and often had to go do echo's in the patients rooms. As we talked about it he fully broke down in tears remembering one of the patients, he was no a wimp either, very much a macho type guy....most people have no idea the psychological strain so many are still going through. (my echo was flying colors thankfully) , While they never could tell their management many also were very very angry about being forced to sacrifice their own health for the vax policies. For their jobs they had to ra ra ra, but many privately would speak their true minds. You kinda have intimate relationships with people when you go that point past shame where you literally need help to just go to the bathroom in a pan. Every Nurse and Tech should be given campaign medals.

 

[Orangeslice13]

You stats are imaginary though. Because as it has been elucidated the reporting simply isn't happening, so as damning as the numbers currently are they still do not remotely tell just how bad things are because VAERS numbers were never mean to be accurate, rather it is meant to be cover.


For the record I know you to be a good man Slice. But for your own sake and your family I hope you open your eyes before real regrets.

accurate numbers are out there.
Covid causes every side effect you attribute to the vaccine.
You can claim there’s no actual numbers while at the same time claiming there’s numbers that you agree with and they’re proof.
That’s all kinda silly though.

me and my family have survived far worse than Covid. If something does get us it won’t be the vaccine that we have not taken in years.
but you do you

 

[NurseGoodVol]

Ask @NurseGoodVol on reporting data. the hoops a physician or nurse would have to go through, and the career issues with doing so. If 50% of vaccine related deaths were recorded as such I would be in shock and awe of jobs well done. The reality is the system is designed to make reporting the events hard. Then often times without an autopsy how can you be sure? All the nurses and doctors are overwhelmed, and spread thin, and it's much easier to give a simple code for the actual result, heart attack, stroke etc.... The problem with the data is there is no mechanic currently to cause remotely accurate data gathering in the first place. THIS is why looking at the numbers on sudden deaths or "additional deaths" per demographic besides previous years is so important. Because you're not going to get accurate data, rather you have to sift the data that is beyond dispute. Then there's the anecdotal data that while anecdotal is pretty damning. Such as a mortician in the buisiness for 50 years and suddenly they start seeing something in the blood and veins they have never seen, and they do have the chance sometimes to speak to loved ones and inquire if they were vaxed etc.... is this the sort of info that will be gathered for a study? Not likely, but you'd have to be a damned fool to ignore it. I posted a link as to the recent study done using the freedom of information on the phizer studies.....it's probably the closest we have to an unbiased review and it was pretty damning, the stuff they wanted to prevent us from seeing for 75 years.... But such studies are expensive and they are mostly funded by those most likely to be culprits and co-conspirators in this fiasco.

7 short years ago we couldn’t even get all the states to upload their flu information correctly to their state health organizations, much less the CDC. Not all data makes it upstream.
I also couldn’t get an answer for those who tested positive for covid 5 to 7 times if it was one positive reported or 7. That was from an RN data miner at a mid size level 2 trauma center in Virginia. She did not know what happened to the data she passed on. Not a clue. For all the guidance the CDC put out during that time, there was no defined limit on reporting positive tests. That was June 2020.
Data isn’t trusted for a reason. From ground zero at 5 different hospitals what I saw did not match the stats.
VEARS reporting takes time, in ICU the pts are so sick we don’t have the luxury of time.
We have pts who are testing positive for covid with zero X-ray evidence that covid is in any way responsible for their stay. They no longer order the spate of tests for covid e.g. ferritin levels. That would be further proof of covid illness instead of a pcr meant for research purposes only and not diagnostic. Yet the pts are coded as covid pts as 1st or second diagnosis. Incidentally positive. Test everyone and cycle it 45 times and you’ll get allot of false positives. ( asymptomatic covid ) Running those blood panels has not happened since last Jan. Do you know what I’m not seeing…testing blood for antibodies. Gold standard of immunity. They will never focus on naturally acquired immunity because it goes against the push for shots as the only answer. This was evident in early 2020 as immunity was completely ignored, thus ignoring 50 years of known science. Guess what they require for employment for every bedside practitioner… a panel to determine your immunity to known infectious agents… but not covid.
I have seen elevated panels in pts who took the shot series matching that of covid pts the first year. The original alpha and delta pre mandate did have clotting issues but not on the level that post shot pts experienced. They are overwhelmed with clots in all major vessel groups. mRNA is responsible for production of proteins in the clotting cascade. We are using a therapy that will alter that cascade and it definitely has.
When I consider that 13 days post 1st shot and post 2nd shot in some data sets is not considered in the vaccinated data set, it just makes me pause on belief in that data. Some live by it, literally. It can be manipulated just as any data can. What is included or excluded makes a world of difference.
The CDC only compares flu shots to other flu shots for control groups. That in itself should create a mountain of doubt about agendas. Food for thought.
Covid is very real and it culled those with diabetes, obesity, cancer and hypertension. Watched many good people die, watched entire families with multiple losses. For a man made virus along with the “ cure “ shot they aimed high and got the death count. CDC actions go against true science and the entire meaning of healthcare. But that’s just my opinion. I know others disagree with me but after dealing with all this for 3 years at ground zero after having a raging case of the GOF covid I just don’t give a rats hiney about whether they agree or not. I can’t unsee or erase this experience.

 

[Sgt_Nick_Fury]

accurate numbers are out there.

How? How could they be? Have you heard NOTHING said here?

Covid causes every side effect you attribute to the vaccine.

Wishful thinking and simply untrue. For instance the vaccine surpresses the immune system so that one can even make the spike proteins in the first place...this is one reason why the vacinated have a higher and not a lower rate of contracting omicron and more recent strains.

Innate immune suppression by SARS-CoV-2 mRNA vaccinations: The role of G-quadruplexes, exosomes, and MicroRNAs - ScienceDirect

You can claim there’s no actual numbers while at the same time claiming there’s numbers that you agree with and they’re proof.
That’s all kinda silly though.

There no actual accurate numbers on VAERS because of the system in place. Whether or not there are excess death is unequivocal. Whether or not there are increased cardiac issues is unequivocal. The numbers in doubts have to to to how much is directly related to one cause. but the VAERS is a joke and was meant to not work right, most nurses and doctors do not have time to sit on a phone for an hour to report an event that then will be criticized, they simply do not have the time and or resources to both get to where they can report, and then battle it out with those paid to suppress the info. The entire VAERS system was created by those with the least reason to want to know accurate data on adverse effects.

me and my family have survived far worse than Covid. If something does get us it won’t be the vaccine that we have not taken in years.
but you do you

I hope you're right man. I really hope so. But this wouldn't be the first time people refused to see the dangers around them because of conative dissidence. At this point the numbers and anecdotal evidence by minds I trust researching it have eliminated all doubts as to the dangers. if you change your mind I strongly recommend you look into Nattokinase and Lumbrokinase. Both of which will need a doctors supervision if you are on blood thinners of any type though. I don't want to "WIN" an argument here. I want people to seek help before they lose loved ones.

 

[Sgt_Nick_Fury]

How? How could they be? Have you heard NOTHING said here?


Wishful thinking and simply untrue. For instance the vaccine surpresses the immune system so that one can even make the spike proteins in the first place...this is one reason why the vacinated have a higher and not a lower rate of contracting omicron and more recent strains.

Innate immune suppression by SARS-CoV-2 mRNA vaccinations: The role of G-quadruplexes, exosomes, and MicroRNAs - ScienceDirect


There no actual accurate numbers on VAERS because of the system in place. Whether or not there are excess death is unequivocal. Whether or not there are increased cardiac issues is unequivocal. The numbers in doubts have to to to how much is directly rated to one cause. but the VAERS is a joke and was meant to not work right, most nurses ands cotors do not have time to sit on a phone for an hour to report an event that then will be criticized. The entire VAERS system was created by those with the least reason to want to know accurate data on adverse effects.

I hope you're right man. I really hope so. But this wouldn't be the first time people refused to see the dangers around them because of conative dissidence. At this point the numbers and anecdotal evidence by minds I trust researching it have eliminated all doubts as to the dangers. if you change your mind I strongly recommend you look into Nattokinase and Lumbrokinase. Both of which will need a doctors supervision if you are on blood thinners of any type though. I don't want to "WIN" an argument here. I want people to seek help before they lose loved ones.

If pride or what have you won't allow you to listen to me then listen to what @NurseGoodVol is saying. Listen to people on the frontlines. My knowledge has mostly come from me battling this on myself for the past year. And you are right one one thing many of the things that is true the spike protein from actual covid causes many of the same effects. However MY BODY is not a factory making spike proteins. My current immunity levels were earned the hard way. Nor did I take something suppressing my immune system. All the same I have read more on studies and treatment plans via covid long haul issues then I have on anything in my life medically speaking. I come from a family with some pretty deep medical roots, including doctors, nurses and pharmacists (that do not agree themselves because of mainly career issues I.E. career politics and what must be said for livelihood) I have also found a good doctor who has an incredible mind, is a true "freethinker" verses the faux free thinkers who are mostly sheep. He has one hell of a batting average so far in looking for new treatments and progress. I trust him implicitly over the doctors working assembly lines daily and medical practices that give them no time to actually read and research. People ARE dying because of the vaccines, and no it was not an accident. Hoping otherwise is not going to protect you or any loved ones.