UT under potential NCAA investigation for NIL

[TheDeeble]

Sigh. Not when he took that flight.

The issue with Nico, and you certainly know this, that makes it odd is that he'd not signed with a school but had signed with Spyre.

I'm not saying that's going to be against the rules. There's a ton about that flight that we don't know but it IS odd and his NIL being signed before signing with UT was odd.

Maybe you don't want to admit that's odd, but it is.

Wasn't he like the #1 rated qb in high school when he graduated? That brings a lot of hype and attention in the college football world. For a #37 rated lb in a state? Sure it might be odd. The #1 rated qb nationally? I don't think it's odd. They're chasing potential.

 

[Volfan1000]

Sunday's Sports Source with John Pennington devoted a majority of the show to this topic.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Idk if you’re aware of this or not but at the time only a few states allowed high school recruits to sign NIL deals. California was one of them. Idk how many there are now but back then there were only a few and of those few only a couple were talent producing states. Again I’m not sure if you’re pointing to the oddity of this at the time or pointing to it now. And again there were no rules in place at the time of Nico’s recruitment unless you do apply booster rules which is what they’re trying to do.

I'm aware. Which is why I think a few recruits made their early deals via lawyers in CA.

And it was odd.

Beck buying a Lambo is just a poor choice of vehicles, but not odd for elite players anymore.

Nico's NIL deal before signing with UT is quite unique and risky.

That was all I was saying to the OP. His analogy was not very good.

 

[BigALWiLson]

Sigh. Not when he took that flight.

The issue with Nico, and you certainly know this, that makes it odd is that he'd not signed with a school but had signed with Spyre.

I'm not saying that's going to be against the rules. There's a ton about that flight that we don't know but it IS odd and his NIL being signed before signing with UT was odd.

Maybe you don't want to admit that's odd, but it is.

Maybe he signed with Spyre because he knew he was coming to UT well before committing. Or he came to UT because it was logical when he decided Spyre would be the best firm he could sign with. If that makes it odd in either situation maybe he's just a smart kid with reasoning skills.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Wasn't he like the #1 rated qb in high school when he graduated? That brings a lot of hype and attention in the college football world. For a #37 rated lb in a state? Sure it might be odd. The #1 rated qb nationally? I don't think it's odd. They're chasing potential.

It's not that he was highly rated.

He signed with Spyre before he signed with UT. That's extremely odd. When Spyre flew him across the country, he was not yet committed to UT and took an unofficial visit.

Unofficial visits cannot have transportation paid for by boosters or the school. The NCAA is trying to say Spyre was a booster OR that UT arranged the flight, not Spyre.

If Spyre has documentation that they arranged the flight, not UT and not the booster themselves, all should be well.

If the booster or UT arranged it, that is not good.

 

[JoeMiltonsAgent]

Sigh. Not when he took that flight.

The issue with Nico, and you certainly know this, that makes it odd is that he'd not signed with a school but had signed with Spyre.

I'm not saying that's going to be against the rules. There's a ton about that flight that we don't know but it IS odd and his NIL being signed before signing with UT was odd.

Maybe you don't want to admit that's odd, but it is.

Youre not seeing other high school students getting NILs because California was the first state to allow it in August of 2021. See Bill 26.

Other states are following their lead and I'd expect it to become more widespread over time that collectives try to get in on high school players early before their valuations explode if they are successful in college.

High school athletes take a page from college with growing NIL movement

College sports changed forever two years ago when the NCAA declared that athletes could start making money through name, image and likeness (NIL) deals. Now, high schoolers want in on the action to…

thehill.com

 

[rltw1974]

Interesting article about HS recruits discussing NIL at the Under Armor game.

This quote stuck out the most to me given our current situation. “ When schools call, they have the position coach, head coach and the money man from the collective call you.”


Recruiting confidential: High school football stars dish on NIL deals, arrogant coaches and more

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Youre not seeing other high school students getting NILs because California was the first state to allow it in August of 2021. See Bill 26.

Other states are following their lead and I'd expect it to become more widespread over time that collectives try to get in on high school players early before their valuations explode if they are successful in college.

High school athletes take a page from college with growing NIL movement

College sports changed forever two years ago when the NCAA declared that athletes could start making money through name, image and likeness (NIL) deals. Now, high schoolers want in on the action to…

thehill.com

Since the deals CANNOT be tied to a specific school, Spyre took a big chance signing Nico before he went to UT.

To take the NCAA's position:

There is no way Spyre was crazy enough to sign this kid to a big NIL contract and not have him entirely locked up to TN. No way. The risk is insane because they would've had to cover that contract even if he flipped to Bama. SOMETHING is up here. NIL can't be used as an inducement to sign. We need to have a look at this.

I'm NOT saying UT or Spyre did anything wrong. I'm saying that signing kids to NIL deals before they sign to come to your school is either...... crazy risky or something isn't quite on the up and up.

 

[chatt.vol]

Interesting article about HS recruits discussing NIL at the Under Armor game.

This quote stuck out the most to me given our current situation. “ When schools call, they have the position coach, head coach and the money man from the collective call you.”


Recruiting confidential: High school football stars dish on NIL deals, arrogant coaches and more

Nothing wrong with that now.

This amendment removes the present law provision whereby an institution, or an officer, director, or employee of the institution may not be involved in the development, operation, or promotion of a current or prospective intercollegiate athlete’s name, image, or likeness, including actions that compensate or cause compensation to be provided to athletes. This amendment instead provides that an institution’s involvement in support of name, image, or likeness activities does not constitute compensation to or representation of an intercollegiate athlete by the institution for purposes of this part so long as the institution does not coerce, compel, or interfere with an intercollegiate athlete’s decision to earn compensation from or obtain representation in connection with a specific name, image, or likeness opportunity.

 

[Voltopia]

Yeah, the NCAA's positon is, essentially, "fine we'll let you do this NIL thing, but you can't in any way create inducement," and the collective (ha) reponse of the schools is going to be "that's dumb, the mechanism is by its very existence a vehicle to create inducement." I can understand the philosophical stance the NCAA took, but the reality is that neither the schools nor the players want to operate that way ... so in the current litigous environment it's a non-starter.

Plowman's opening salvo was completely correct about one thing if nothing else - it is preposterous to expect that players must accept vague promises of third party NIL compensation without specifics, and it is doubly preposterous not to expect players to pit schools against one another to bid for their services. Especially not when there's a no-holds-barred open market -- oops, I mean, transfer portal -- to allow players to shop for better offers whenever they want.

 

[Sara Clark]

Since the deals CANNOT be tied to a specific school, Spyre took a big chance signing Nico before he went to UT.

To take the NCAA's position:

There is no way Spyre was crazy enough to sign this kid to a big NIL contract and not have him entirely locked up to TN. No way. The risk is insane because they would've had to cover that contract even if he flipped to Bama. SOMETHING is up here. NIL can't be used as an inducement to sign. We need to have a look at this.

I'm NOT saying UT or Spyre did anything wrong. I'm saying that signing kids to NIL deals before they sign to come to your school is either...... crazy risky or something isn't quite on the up and up.

Are you not happy with what his CA attorney said he put in the contract? He said his client retained the right to pick any school of his choosing, it was signed by all parties involved. Weird or not, that doesn't mean it breaks the rules. If you want to get down to it, bottom line, if we're being intellectually honest, NIL is a pay for play, not one person wants to admit. NIL agents get around it by following what rules are in place at the time. Kids are going to go where they think their biggest paycheck is.

 

[Sara Clark]

Marsha Blackburn, Cory Booker join forces against NCAA amid Tennessee investigation

U.S. Senators Marsha Blackburn and Cory Booker are pressing the NCAA to speed up investigations like the one into NIL allegations against Tennessee.

www.knoxnews.com

 

[TheDeeble]

Since the deals CANNOT be tied to a specific school, Spyre took a big chance signing Nico before he went to UT.

To take the NCAA's position:

There is no way Spyre was crazy enough to sign this kid to a big NIL contract and not have him entirely locked up to TN. No way. The risk is insane because they would've had to cover that contract even if he flipped to Bama. SOMETHING is up here. NIL can't be used as an inducement to sign. We need to have a look at this.

I'm NOT saying UT or Spyre did anything wrong. I'm saying that signing kids to NIL deals before they sign to come to your school is either...... crazy risky or something isn't quite on the up and up.

Who says Spyre is required to only represent UT athletes? I know that's generally who they represent, but is there some law or requirement that forbids them from signing someone that attends a different school?

You've mentioned the NCAA position. Here is Spyre's. I'm sure you've seen it, but Spyre's statement is they forseee him to be a future NFL player.

 

[JoeMiltonsAgent]

Since the deals CANNOT be tied to a specific school, Spyre took a big chance signing Nico before he went to UT.

To take the NCAA's position:

There is no way Spyre was crazy enough to sign this kid to a big NIL contract and not have him entirely locked up to TN. No way. The risk is insane because they would've had to cover that contract even if he flipped to Bama. SOMETHING is up here. NIL can't be used as an inducement to sign. We need to have a look at this.

I'm NOT saying UT or Spyre did anything wrong. I'm saying that signing kids to NIL deals before they sign to come to your school is either...... crazy risky or something isn't quite on the up and up.

People with lots of money make risky investments all the time lol.

Look at some of the contracts MLB teams sign with international players before they even have their work visas as an example.

Didn't mean to pile on with that previous post. Got sidetracked with a work call before I hit send then saw where DaddyChad brought up the same point.

 

[VolDave53]

I'm aware. Which is why I think a few recruits made their early deals via lawyers in CA.

And it was odd.

Beck buying a Lambo is just a poor choice of vehicles, but not odd for elite players anymore.

Nico's NIL deal before signing with UT is quite unique and risky.

That was all I was saying to the OP. His analogy was not very good.

So, you are saying that because the standard behavior of players purchasing high dollar autos is the norm because it has gone on for years. Hmmm. Is that not the same logic you are decrying when someone says players have been paid for years?

Nico's deal was unique because it was the first major signing of an athlete after the rules changed. It does not make it wrong, or wrongly done. I stand with UT on this one. No real rules were in place, per the NCAA president, thus there could be no rules violations.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Are you not happy with what his CA attorney said he put in the contract? He said his client retained the right to pick any school of his choosing, it was signed by all parties involved. Bottom line, weird or not, that doesn't mean it breaks the rules. If you want to get down to it, bottom line, if we're being intellectually honest, NIL is a pay for play, not one person wants to admit. NIL agents get around it by following what rules are in place at the time. Kids are going to go where they think their biggest paycheck is.

I've said repeatedly that it just was not a good comparison to Beck buying a sports car. That is just normal and I linked to several players buying sports cars.

Nico's deal was weird. Period. Signing the NIL before the school isn't common at all because of the NIL risk. Yes, I believe it was legit, but it's weird.

The OP implied that Beck's Lambo purchase was similar to Nico's flight across country by Spyre before he'd signed with UT AND to take an unofficial visit.

They aren't very similar.

 

[Sara Clark]

I've said repeatedly that it just was not a good comparison to Beck buying a sports car. That is just normal and I linked to several players buying sports cars.

Nico's deal was weird. Period. Signing the NIL before the school isn't common at all because of the NIL risk. Yes, I believe it was legit, but it's weird.

The OP implied that Beck's Lambo purchase was similar to Nico's flight across country by Spyre before he'd signed with UT AND to take an unofficial visit.

They aren't very similar.

Got your point. I should have read the last several pages instead of reading the last couple.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

People with lots of money make risky investments all the time lol.

Look at some of the contracts MLB teams sign with international players before they even have their work visas as an example.

Didn't mean to pile on with that previous post. Got sidetracked with a work call before I hit send then saw where DaddyChad brought up the same point.

No biggie. Sports contracts are all risks.

Certainly pro players usually have some college experience to go by. Signing a true freshman to a big NIL deal IS becoming more common but when Nico did it, it was 1) a very big NIL deal for the time 2) odd that the NIL came before the signing to UT.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Who says Spyre is required to only represent UT athletes? I know that's generally who they represent, but is there some law or requirement that forbids them from signing someone that attends a different school?

You've mentioned the NCAA position. Here is Spyre's. I'm sure you've seen it, but Spyre's statement is they forseee him to be a future NFL player.

View attachment 618012

Spyre, I think, has other clients and may very well represent Nico on into his pro career for NIL. More power to everyone in that.

Spyre CAN support athletes who attend other schools but as a donor to the Vol Club/Spyre, I would prefer them not to fund NIL for non-UT athletes unless they're at the pro level.

Spyre can run their business quite well without me and I trust the Nico situation was something of a "one off" where we REALLY wanted to impress him with our commitment and Heupel must have REALLY wanted him in Knoxville.

I look forward to watching him and I hope he is downing a protein shake as I type.

 

[Dadof2Vols]

"Everyone was getting rich."

And who exactly is everyone? Here's a chart that summarizes the total expenses for SEC programs in 2022. Some of them made a small degree of profit. 5 million, 10 million, maybe a little more if they were one of the big dogs. The vast majority of that 2 billion was spent operating the programs.


View attachment 617913

Aside from coaches, and that is certainly a valid thing to examine, but aside from them, who exactly was getting rich? Or is this just about the schools having that money to spend to begin with? Because the vast majority of the money that came in, was spent. It's always spent, because they aren't corporations trying to profit shareholders. Or at least, they weren't, anyway. I don't know what they'll be in fifteen years.

I suppose the argument is that the schools shouldn't get that money, that it should go to the players. But no one out there was getting rich -- and a good many college athletics programs flirt with being in the negative on a yearly basis.

This is what most people don’t get. If you pay players playing on revenue producing sports, you have to pay non revenue producing sports due to title IX. As your chart above shows, there is not that kind of money.

So you really only have two choices, move revenue producing sports out of the university and license the university name to them, then since you have no revenue left, cut all the rest of the sports. Bye baseball, softball, etc…

Second option cut all other male sports but football/basketball and keep them as part of university so you have money to pay 130 women athletes and only 130.

You have to deal with title IX and people want to talk about the revenue that Football generates but ignores the fact the university uses that to fund the all sports not to put money into the University.

Most athletic budgets for most schools already lose money.

 

[Voltopia]

This is what most people don’t get. If you pay players playing on revenue producing sports, you have to pay non revenue producing sports due to title IX. As your chart above shows, there is not that kind of money.

So you really only have two choices, move revenue producing sports out of the university and license the university name to them, then since you have no revenue left, cut all the rest of the sports. Bye baseball, softball, etc…

Second option cut all other male sports but football/basketball and keep them as part of university so you have money to pay 130 women athletes and only 130.

You have to deal with title IX and people want to talk about the revenue that Football generates but ignores the fact the university uses that to fund the all sports not to put money into the University.

Most athletic budgets for most schools already lose money.

Exactly. People, outside of a select few, were not getting rich. Lots of people throw around that "everyone's getting rich" comment, but these aren't private companies who enrich shareholders. The coaches got richer, sure, but that's because coaching salaries were one of the few ways schools could throw their vast funding around to compete with one another without running afoul of the NCAA. Well, that and Jimmy Sexton, who's leveraged his near-monopoly on coaching access to bleed the sport of every last dollar he could. Some of the higher ups in the administrations, perhaps, were also very well paid. And they certainly did represent an ethical quandry for schools who were supposedly on a mission to represent and promote college athletics.

Coaching pay malfeasance aside, all that big money was spent improving the program, creating more opportunities for athletes in other sports. Football was the cash cow, no doubt, but it all went into one pot, a pot used to improve what was there, and improve the experience the school could offer to the student-athlete population. It was, admittedly, a bit of a socialist concept. "We're all students representing the school, and the school leverages what we do to make a better experience for students who compete in sporting competitions for us." We're past that now. Now it's gonna be every player, and every sport, for themselves and most of them won't survive. "Good riddance," some will say. "They didn't make any more, so screw 'em." And there we'll be, with two moneyed sports off to the side, and the rest all a giant black hole of cost that few will be able to cover.

As for the choices in that future, I agree that the final destination is to separate the professional sports, but that's an even nastier problem. Frankly, who would care about a commercial sports enterprise that just licenses a team brand for the sake of marketing? What on Earth could licensed professional teams have to do with the University of Tennessee, or any other college, at that point? It'd just be a marketing sideshow. Certainly wouldn't have much relation to the schools themselves. They'll parade it around of course, try to act like it's the same thing, but anyone paying attention will know it's not the same. Nonetheless, it's inevitable. The only question is how many lawsuits it'll take for us to get there.

 

[My VOLS are huge]

And there we have it, Sankey is talking out both sides of his mouth with pawl. You can tell he wasn't a fan of the lawsuit.

 

[Volbrando]

And there we have it, Sankey is talking out both sides of his mouth with pawl. You can tell he wasn't a fan of the lawsuit.

I was afraid of that. I don’t understand why so many are against TN

 

[cgrish]

And there we have it, Sankey is talking out both sides of his mouth with pawl. You can tell he wasn't a fan of the lawsuit.

Sankey sounded as though he wanted the big ten and sec to do the negotiation to me. Instead of UT defending themselves.

 

[bolvols]

Sankey knows a LOT about them ( NCAA )and certain other teams ( Dawgs , Bama ) could come out the more Tennessee push's the issue. There has to be info known on how these teams appear so squeaky clean yet the NCAA looks the other way. He can see the tide turning where he doesn’t have any Power to sway things. Ask a gator fan about Derrick Henry and what happened. Remember Nick speaking about Tua and his dealing before the NIL. So Sankey are you real or are you Snake Oil ?