USC and UCLA to leave Pac 12 for Big Ten

Yeah, probably.

It would be interesting to see their viewership over their more recent history. Oregon has also been thru a good number of coaches but has maintained some level of success that USC hasnt been able to.
I think you and I can agree to disagree, even though I see what you’re saying about recent viewership w/Oregon. I think USC’s ceiling is higher overall, especially when you’re adding flagship universities from the B1G that now have a vested interest and have tons of alumni all over the country and probably in California as well.
 
There are a ton of Changes that will evolve in the move to 2-24 Team Power 5 Conferences.

Questions Below

# Total number of Season Games Increase
# Total number of Conference Games
# Number of Playoff Teams
# Out of Conference games Restricted to the other Power 5 Conference teams.
# Division Set up Like NFL 4 - 6 Team Divisions or 6 - 4 Team Divisions
# Conference Championship Games

NIL Team Caps, Transfer Portal Management, The list goes on and on.

A lot of Questions to be Answered but I see the construction of the 2 Conferences following the Structure of the NFL or at least very Similar to it.

All completely Void of the NCAA who would not have the ability to manage it.


NFL is smart enough to maintain key rivalries. Seems Sankey isn’t concerned as much about that. You’ll lose a lot of big annual games going even to pods.
 
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NFL is smart enough to maintain key rivalries. Seems Sankey isn’t concerned as much about that. You’ll lose a lot of big annual games going even to pods.
I agree but with potentially going to this type of Expansion in both Conferences, it turns a page from the history to the always hidden agenda of $$$$. I see these two Conferences as the NFL farm league in football. Thus, Changing the Environment to a grueling schedule and Any Given Saturday.
 
I agree but with potentially going to this type of Expansion in both Conferences, it turns a page from the history to the always hidden agenda of $$$$. I see these two Conferences as the NFL farm league in football. Thus, Changing the Environment to a grueling schedule and Any Given Saturday.


They better be ready to pay cause they’re fixing to have employees, represented by a players union, and not students
 
They better be ready to pay cause they’re fixing to have employees, represented by a players union, and not students
you are right and I didn't think about that....
What do you think the whole expansion of the two conferences is all about? Mine is of course total speculation. If I am hear it right, I do believe it is about breaking away from the NCAA to a degree in football but to build it's own league with a Championship series.
So am I overthinking?
 
I was fine with the SEC expanding to 16 now it is 24 with 2 conferences containing the prime of College Football. Both in the right markets will be huge money makers but where does that leave the sleepers and who gets left out? Where does the NCAA fit? The Carryover into other sports of Basketball (W&M) Baseball, Softball? Just football?
What is the End State after all this is done?
 
True. The SEC might not take either Miami or FSU since they have the Florida market already. Might lean more toward an East Coast presence. Clemson/Carolina/Virginia? Like I said, it’s going to be interesting to see how the dominoes fall.

Not 100%, if FSU gets good again and Florida continues to struggle, we could lose that market.
 
SEC should get into new states if they expand by 4. North Carolina, Virginia, Pennsylvania and Ohio is where I’d target. Two of those get you into Big Ten country which would be huge.

No reason to add schools where the state already has a huge SEC presence.
 
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Not 100%, if FSU gets good again and Florida continues to struggle, we could lose that market.


I don’t think it’s smart for SEC to allow B10 to get two teams in Florida & have their teams coming down playing 10-12 games a year in the state. It would definitely help their recruiting in Fla
 
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Glad I am not a Cal fan, here is a post from their message board:

Finally, the fact that Div-1A College football has been driven by and orchestrated by TV money all along, is now laid bare for all to see. By paying Pac-12 schools approx 1/3 what they paid the SEC and Big-10, FOX and ESPN assured that the conference would not survive as a viable college football entity. U$C graduates at Fox orchestrating the move of $C and U _ _ _ to the Big-10 was easy as these schools eagerly did the only thing that would assure their athletic future.

While this was unfolding, our brilliant Pac-12 Commissioner stupidly voted against expanded playoffs, stupidly told ESPN & Fox to shove it with the embarrassing Pac10 Network, unbelievably, stupidly did not believe that individual schools would act in their own best interest but rather "stay united" with the Pac-12 schools getting far less revenue than the Big-10/SEC schools.

One could reasonably argue that Cal's fate was sealed the day George Kliavkoff was hired. Chancellor Christ and A.D. Knowlton did nothing while U$C and ucla plotted to abandon the Pac-12 for a much larger college football payday.

I do not know how Cal Football can be saved -- I do know that having a stadium debt to repay does not assure that TV networks will pay Cal, a .500 team at best, always in the second tier in the Pac-12, any amount near what Cal needs to maintain a viable D-1 College Football Program. Indeed, Cal can no longer count on U$C and ucla as football opponents once they start their Big-10 schedules. There are no schedule replacements in the West that have the financial ability to take their place. When the rumored Pac-12 abandonment by the Arizona schools, Utah, Oregon and Washington takes place Cal will likely not be able to count on scheduling these teams either.

I do know that Christ and Knowlton have been outmaneuvered at every critical stage of this fiasco.

I do know that there does not appear to be any major donors with the ability or willingness to advocate for Cal to join the Big-10, unlike Phil Knight & Oregon.

I do know that the SEC/Big-10 schools are now, clearly, feeder minor league pro teams for talent to audition for the NFL. The fans of these schools may foolishly continue to believe the college schedules of these teams actually mean anything other than to showcase NFL player auditions, but more realistic fans know that it will be more entertaining to watch the real NFL on TV rather than these NFL feeder programs. It will be reasonable to ask why the SEC/Big-10 forces football players to go to class at their schools, when all that does is dilute the preparation time for football during the week.

We will start seeing recruitment of any 3-star or above prospect become impossible as they get offers from the SEC or Big-10, the two major TV revenue driving programs. NIL money will also drive that trend. For the HS prospects who do not get picked by the SEC/Big-10, outdated Cal academic standards will exasperate the recruiting problem.

So, hard as it is to stomach, we are witnessing the destruction of Cal Football as a viable D-1 College Football Program. Perhaps Christ can sell the land that the stadium is on to pay-off the stadium debt. We will all bid on eBay to get a genuine brick from Memorial stadium if we cannot get one as Memorial Stadium is demolished, to facilitate top dollar condominium construction with a view of the Bay. And of course watch the 49ers on TV to satisfy our football appetites.
 
Glad I am not a Cal fan, here is a post from their message board:

Finally, the fact that Div-1A College football has been driven by and orchestrated by TV money all along, is now laid bare for all to see. By paying Pac-12 schools approx 1/3 what they paid the SEC and Big-10, FOX and ESPN assured that the conference would not survive as a viable college football entity. U$C graduates at Fox orchestrating the move of $C and U _ _ _ to the Big-10 was easy as these schools eagerly did the only thing that would assure their athletic future.

While this was unfolding, our brilliant Pac-12 Commissioner stupidly voted against expanded playoffs, stupidly told ESPN & Fox to shove it with the embarrassing Pac10 Network, unbelievably, stupidly did not believe that individual schools would act in their own best interest but rather "stay united" with the Pac-12 schools getting far less revenue than the Big-10/SEC schools.

One could reasonably argue that Cal's fate was sealed the day George Kliavkoff was hired. Chancellor Christ and A.D. Knowlton did nothing while U$C and ucla plotted to abandon the Pac-12 for a much larger college football payday.

I do not know how Cal Football can be saved -- I do know that having a stadium debt to repay does not assure that TV networks will pay Cal, a .500 team at best, always in the second tier in the Pac-12, any amount near what Cal needs to maintain a viable D-1 College Football Program. Indeed, Cal can no longer count on U$C and ucla as football opponents once they start their Big-10 schedules. There are no schedule replacements in the West that have the financial ability to take their place. When the rumored Pac-12 abandonment by the Arizona schools, Utah, Oregon and Washington takes place Cal will likely not be able to count on scheduling these teams either.

I do know that Christ and Knowlton have been outmaneuvered at every critical stage of this fiasco.

I do know that there does not appear to be any major donors with the ability or willingness to advocate for Cal to join the Big-10, unlike Phil Knight & Oregon.

I do know that the SEC/Big-10 schools are now, clearly, feeder minor league pro teams for talent to audition for the NFL. The fans of these schools may foolishly continue to believe the college schedules of these teams actually mean anything other than to showcase NFL player auditions, but more realistic fans know that it will be more entertaining to watch the real NFL on TV rather than these NFL feeder programs. It will be reasonable to ask why the SEC/Big-10 forces football players to go to class at their schools, when all that does is dilute the preparation time for football during the week.

We will start seeing recruitment of any 3-star or above prospect become impossible as they get offers from the SEC or Big-10, the two major TV revenue driving programs. NIL money will also drive that trend. For the HS prospects who do not get picked by the SEC/Big-10, outdated Cal academic standards will exasperate the recruiting problem.

So, hard as it is to stomach, we are witnessing the destruction of Cal Football as a viable D-1 College Football Program. Perhaps Christ can sell the land that the stadium is on to pay-off the stadium debt. We will all bid on eBay to get a genuine brick from Memorial stadium if we cannot get one as Memorial Stadium is demolished, to facilitate top dollar condominium construction with a view of the Bay. And of course watch the 49ers on TV to satisfy our football appetites.
That's heartbreaking to read. It would be devastating if UT were in that spot.
 
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Glad I am not a Cal fan, here is a post from their message board:

Finally, the fact that Div-1A College football has been driven by and orchestrated by TV money all along, is now laid bare for all to see. By paying Pac-12 schools approx 1/3 what they paid the SEC and Big-10, FOX and ESPN assured that the conference would not survive as a viable college football entity. U$C graduates at Fox orchestrating the move of $C and U _ _ _ to the Big-10 was easy as these schools eagerly did the only thing that would assure their athletic future.

While this was unfolding, our brilliant Pac-12 Commissioner stupidly voted against expanded playoffs, stupidly told ESPN & Fox to shove it with the embarrassing Pac10 Network, unbelievably, stupidly did not believe that individual schools would act in their own best interest but rather "stay united" with the Pac-12 schools getting far less revenue than the Big-10/SEC schools.

One could reasonably argue that Cal's fate was sealed the day George Kliavkoff was hired. Chancellor Christ and A.D. Knowlton did nothing while U$C and ucla plotted to abandon the Pac-12 for a much larger college football payday.

I do not know how Cal Football can be saved -- I do know that having a stadium debt to repay does not assure that TV networks will pay Cal, a .500 team at best, always in the second tier in the Pac-12, any amount near what Cal needs to maintain a viable D-1 College Football Program. Indeed, Cal can no longer count on U$C and ucla as football opponents once they start their Big-10 schedules. There are no schedule replacements in the West that have the financial ability to take their place. When the rumored Pac-12 abandonment by the Arizona schools, Utah, Oregon and Washington takes place Cal will likely not be able to count on scheduling these teams either.

I do know that Christ and Knowlton have been outmaneuvered at every critical stage of this fiasco.

I do know that there does not appear to be any major donors with the ability or willingness to advocate for Cal to join the Big-10, unlike Phil Knight & Oregon.

I do know that the SEC/Big-10 schools are now, clearly, feeder minor league pro teams for talent to audition for the NFL. The fans of these schools may foolishly continue to believe the college schedules of these teams actually mean anything other than to showcase NFL player auditions, but more realistic fans know that it will be more entertaining to watch the real NFL on TV rather than these NFL feeder programs. It will be reasonable to ask why the SEC/Big-10 forces football players to go to class at their schools, when all that does is dilute the preparation time for football during the week.

We will start seeing recruitment of any 3-star or above prospect become impossible as they get offers from the SEC or Big-10, the two major TV revenue driving programs. NIL money will also drive that trend. For the HS prospects who do not get picked by the SEC/Big-10, outdated Cal academic standards will exasperate the recruiting problem.

So, hard as it is to stomach, we are witnessing the destruction of Cal Football as a viable D-1 College Football Program. Perhaps Christ can sell the land that the stadium is on to pay-off the stadium debt. We will all bid on eBay to get a genuine brick from Memorial stadium if we cannot get one as Memorial Stadium is demolished, to facilitate top dollar condominium construction with a view of the Bay. And of course watch the 49ers on TV to satisfy our football appetites.
that’s what they get for booing and mocking God during our pregame prayer in 2006
 
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That's heartbreaking to read. It would be devastating if UT were in that spot.

That was my takeaway too.

Even if Cal goes undefeated, their conference schedule and overall strength of schedule will probably be so low they’ll get left out in favor of a one loss ACC/SEC/BIG 10 team.

And they’re so geographically isolated from the other conferences, there’s really no appeal for another conference to take them
 
That was my takeaway too.

Even if Cal goes undefeated, their conference schedule and overall strength of schedule will probably be so low they’ll get left out in favor of a one loss ACC/SEC/BIG 10 team.

And they’re so geographically isolated from the other conferences, there’s really no appeal for another conference to take them

Their arrogance didn't help either. Pac12 could have used programs like Boise State and BYU to boost their overall Football Reputation and they would not let one in because "Academics" (when did Academics become about snobbery and not about trying to ensure quality education and literacy for everyone. Wouldn't uplifting Boise State and Idaho by getting them in the Pac12 be a better goal) and the other due to "Religion" (BYU).
 
Their arrogance didn't help either. Pac12 could have used programs like Boise State and BYU to boost their overall Football Reputation and they would not let one in because "Academics" (when did Academics become about snobbery and not about trying to ensure quality education and literacy for everyone. Wouldn't uplifting Boise State and Idaho by getting them in the Pac12 be a better goal) and the other due to "Religion" (BYU).
I agree to a point about the PAC 12 but Boise state is a joke of a program. A former trucker school with less than 30k fanbase. They provide nothing to a real conference
 
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Even without USC and UCLA more people watch the PAC than the ACC.

Found this, thought it was interesting. It's not perfect data, but it does put some things in perspective as to TV viewership. It does imply that Oregon draws more views than USC and UCLA combined. Again, I think games like Oregon vs Ohio St may throw the numbers off.

Ranking the most-watched college football programs in 2021
The numbers next to each school indicate the average number of viewers per week for a 12-week season.
Streaming numbers are included when available. Games that do not have available data are counted as zero.
  1. Ohio State — 5.22M
  2. Michigan — 4.74M
  3. Alabama — 4.64M
  4. Penn State — 3.87M
  5. Georgia — 3.61M
  6. Oklahoma — 3.46M
  7. Auburn — 3.22M
  8. Michigan State — 2.89M
  9. Notre Dame — 2.84M
  10. Oregon — 2.57M
  11. Wisconsin — 2.41M
  12. Nebraska — 2.29M
  13. Texas — 2.26M
  14. Florida — 2.21M
  15. Arkansas — 2.03M
  16. LSU — 1.90M
  17. Texas A&M — 1.86M
  18. Mississippi — 1.81M
  19. Clemson — 1.74M
  20. Iowa — 1.64M
  21. Purdue — 1.63M
  22. Oklahoma State — 1.58M
  23. Tennessee — 1.51M
  24. Minnesota — 1.28M
  25. Florida State — 1.27M
  26. Indiana — 1.24M
  27. Iowa State — 1.219M
  28. Cincinnati — 1.216M
  29. UCLA — 1.18M
  30. Baylor — 1.16M
  31. Illinois — 1.13M
  32. Southern Cal — 1.11M
  33. Kentucky — 1.08M
  34. Navy — 1.039M
  35. Miami — 1.038M
  36. North Carolina — 1.032M
  37. Utah — 994K
  38. Washington — 985K
  39. Maryland — 971K
  40. West Virginia — 948K
  41. TCU — 907K
  42. BYU — 893K
  43. Mississippi State — 858K
  44. Army — 804K
  45. Texas Tech — 798K
  46. Stanford — 778K
  47. Arizona State — 739K
  48. Northwestern — 716K
  49. Boise State — 657K
  50. Kansas State — 636K
  51. Louisville — 616K
  52. Virginia — 611K
  53. South Carolina — 575K
  54. Pittsburgh — 550K
  55. Kansas — 540K
  56. Wake Forest — 526K
  57. NC State — 525K
  58. Rutgers — 488K
  59. Washington State — 483K
  60. Missouri — 462K
  61. Georgia Tech — 459K
  62. Virginia Tech — 447K
  63. UCF — 407K
  64. Colorado — 366K
  65. Tulsa — 358K
  66. Tulane — 356K
  67. Arizona — 337K
  68. Louisiana — 334K
  69. Oregon State — 321K
  70. South Florida — 303K
  71. East Carolina — 301K
  72. Air Force — 255K
  73. Appalachian State — 241K
  74. Houston — 232K
  75. Coastal Carolina — 223K
  76. California — 222K
  77. Syracuse — 219K
  78. San Diego State — 198K
  79. Memphis — 193K
  80. Western Michigan — 171K
  81. SMU — 164K
  82. UAB — 163K
  83. Northern Illinois — 163K
  84. Boston College — 156K
  85. Hawaii — 139K
  86. Ohio — 130K
  87. Eastern Michigan — 122K
  88. Buffalo — 119K
  89. Kent State — 117K
  90. Temple — 112.7K
  91. Ball State — 112.6K
  92. Western Kentucky — 97K
  93. Utah State — 91K
  94. Akron — 90K
  95. Marshall — 85K
  96. Nevada — 78K
  97. Duke — 64K
  98. UTEP — 63K
  99. Colorado State — 59K
  100. San Jose State — 59K
  101. UTSA — 51.9K
  102. Georgia State — 51.7K
  103. ULM — 50K
  104. Fresno State — 45K
  105. Wyoming — 38K
  106. Vanderbilt — 37K
  107. UNLV — 34K
  108. South Alabama — 26K
  109. New Mexico — 25K
  110. Troy — 24K
The 2021 “4 million club”
Here are all of the games that broke 4 million viewers this season:
  1. Ohio State at Michigan — 15.89M
  2. Alabama at Auburn — 10.37M
  3. Michigan at Michigan State — 9.29M
  4. Georgia at Clemson — 8.87M
  5. Alabama at Texas A&M — 8.33M
  6. Alabama at Florida — 7.86M
  7. Notre Dame at Florida State — 7.75M
  8. Oregon at Ohio State — 7.73M
  9. Auburn at Penn State — 7.61M
  10. Army vs. Navy — 7.57M
  11. Penn State at Ohio State — 7.05M
  12. Penn State at Iowa — 6.90M
  13. Oklahoma at Oklahoma State — 6.49M
  14. Kentucky at Georgia — 6.37M
  15. Ohio State at Minnesota — 6.30M
  16. Georgia at Florida — 6.12M
  17. Michigan at Penn State — 5.942M
  18. Oklahoma at Texas — 5.940M
  19. Georgia at Tennessee — 5.78M
  20. Alabama at Miami — 5.67M
  21. Arkansas at Alabama — 5.46M
  22. Penn State at Wisconsin — 5.41M
  23. Notre Dame at Wisconsin — 5.37M
  24. Ohio State at Nebraska — 5.33M
  25. Michigan State at Ohio State — 5.29M
  26. Wisconsin at Minnesota — 5.05M
  27. LSU at Alabama — 5.00M
  28. Oregon at Utah — 4.82M
  29. Mississippi at Alabama — 4.79M
  30. Washington at Michigan — 4.75M
  31. Purdue at Ohio State — 4.74M
  32. Tennessee at Alabama — 4.68M
  33. Michigan at Nebraska — 4.63M
  34. Georgia at Auburn — 4.58M
  35. Texas A&M at Colorado — 4.50M
  36. West Virginia at Oklahoma —4.50M
  37. Michigan State at Purdue — 4.40M
  38. Michigan at Wisconsin — 4.31M
  39. Nebraska at Oklahoma — 4.21M
  40. Texas A&M at Arkansas — 4.07M
  41. Indiana at Penn State — 4.00M
There were 34 teams that played in at least one game that cracked 4 million viewers:
8— Alabama
7 — Ohio State
6 — Michigan, Penn State
5 — Georgia
4 — Oklahoma, Wisconsin
3 — Auburn, Michigan State, Nebraska, Texas A&M
2 — Arkansas, Florida, Minnesota, Notre Dame, Oregon, Purdue, Tennessee
1 — Army, Clemson, Colorado, Florida State, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, LSU, Miami, Mississippi, Navy, Oklahoma State, Texas, Utah, Washington, West Virginia
 
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Their arrogance didn't help either. Pac12 could have used programs like Boise State and BYU to boost their overall Football Reputation and they would not let one in because "Academics" (when did Academics become about snobbery and not about trying to ensure quality education and literacy for everyone. Wouldn't uplifting Boise State and Idaho by getting them in the Pac12 be a better goal) and the other due to "Religion" (BYU).

The BYU issue was certainly religion related in that BYU refuses to play on Sundays. That became a scheduling problem the PAC wasn't willing to accommodate.

As for Boise St they are a small market team. San Diego St would probably be a much better fit for TV markets.
 
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SEC should get into new states if they expand by 4. North Carolina, Virginia, Pennsylvania and Ohio is where I’d target. Two of those get you into Big Ten country which would be huge.

No reason to add schools where the state already has a huge SEC presence.


Getting into Big Ten country would be huge but letting Big Ten get into SEC would not? It would be a mistake to let Big Ten take FSU and Miami, a huge mistake. The SEC doesn't need to expand nationwide, it's going to be a hindrance for the smaller sports as the Big Ten will learn. Our best option is keeping our footprint relatively southern and add FSU, Miami, and Clemson at the least and go from there.
 
Getting into Big Ten country would be huge but letting Big Ten get into SEC would not? It would be a mistake to let Big Ten take FSU and Miami, a huge mistake. The SEC doesn't need to expand nationwide, it's going to be a hindrance for the smaller sports as the Big Ten will learn. Our best option is keeping our footprint relatively southern and add FSU, Miami, and Clemson at the least and go from there.

There are arguments for FSU. Florida is a big state. But Miami is useless. If the Big 10 wants into FL so bad that they are willing to subsidize Miami to the tune of nine figures then they are welcome to it.
 
Minnesota plays in a dome
iu
 
That's heartbreaking to read. It would be devastating if UT were in that spot.
Let Cal pound sand. They sealed the fate of the entire Pac with their academic snobbery when they denied Oklahoma State and Texas Tech entry into the conference. No OSU and TTU, no Oklahoma and Texas.
 
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UNC and NC St and Duke have to be a package deal. Do you think the SEC will pick up Oklahoma St? It doesn’t feel right that Oklahoma and OSU won’t be in the same conference. I would hate to see the Bedlam game go away.
Didn't feel right when aTm and Texas didn't play each other but it happened. Oklahoma is a small market state. Don't see y'all adding Oklahoma State.
 
Let Cal pound sand. They sealed the fate of the entire Pac with their academic snobbery when they denied Oklahoma State and Texas Tech entry into the conference. No OSU and TTU, no Oklahoma and Texas.
I thought Texas blew up that deal for the LHN.
 

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