USA Today ranks Josh Heupel as #17 in top 25 of coaches

[deatojl]

Brian Kelly has won a ton of games. He made a 4 team playoff. He made the national championship game when there was no playoff. He made a SEC championship game. He found and developed a Heisman winner. He had a G5 team that went 13-0 under him before he left before the bowl game.

So far, he has shown a higher ceiling than Heupel.

Josh Heupel has a career .739 winning percentage to Brian Kelly's .728(.704 including NCAA vacated wins), had a G5 team with a 12-0 regular season record, made a playoff, developed a Biletnikoff winner as well as a QB who was on track to at the very least be a Heisman finalist before getting injured, and coached circles around Brian Kelly on his home field. Josh Heupel also took over a Tennessee team coming off a 3-7 record and losing 35 players, while Brian Kelly took over an LSU team coming off a 6-7 season with a bowl game and only three years removed from a natty. In Brian Kelly's three years at LSU, he has a 29-11 record with trips to the Citrus, ReliaQuest and Texas Bowls while Heupel has went 30-9 with trips to the Orange bowl, Citrus bowl and CFP while working through NCAA sanctions and a much less favorable recruiting area. Since Kelly has been at LSU, his ceiling has been the Citrus bowl, which has been Heupel's floor during that same three year stretch.

 

[BernardKingGOAT]

Kiffin had same situation with crompton. Schemed half the field and turned him around completely.

It worked for us too, last year, for the most part. We ran the ball well and simplified our passing game for Nico, especially into the SEC schedule

 

[deatojl]

I guess Pittman is better than Heupel. He beat Heupel head to head with much less talent. For that matter, Butch Jones was undefeated against Steve Spurrier.

So, in this thread, you have used Ryan Day's head to head win over Heupel to defend Day's ranking and the notion he is a better coach than Heupel, then turned around and scoffed at the idea of someone else using the same logic when comparing Heupel to Kelly. That sound about right?

 

[NEO]

It worked for us too, last year, for the most part. We ran the ball well and simplified our passing game for Nico, especially into the SEC schedule

It supposedly wasn’t disguised as well though and DCs figured it out and stopped defending the one side. I read that sonewhere but have no idea of the validity

I think we surprise ppl this year though and QB play looks better.

 

[loservol]

Friend of mine read this article and asked me "Is Heupel the Rick Barnes of football?", and honestly I couldn't answer no.
It's like Gandalf said early in this thread, you don't know until you win a Natty.

If CJH keeps on giving us 9 to 11 win seasons, he may very well prove out to be a Rick Barnes or Mark Richt where he just can't quite grab that brass ring and for right now, I'm okay with that.

There TWO MOST IMPORTANT things this program needed after the Pruitt / Fulmer debacle:
1) Learn how to win again...box checked
2) Become stable...box checked

Heupel reminds me of Dan Mullen, just minus the crazy wife.

 

[wmcovol]

Everybody loses underachieving Kiffin. Guy had maybe the top roster in the SEC last year & lost 3 games, one to Kentucky.

 

[LegionnaireOfTheMiserable]

Josh Heupel has a career .739 winning percentage to Brian Kelly's .728(.704 including NCAA vacated wins), had a G5 team with a 12-0 regular season record, made a playoff, developed a Biletnikoff winner as well as a QB who was on track to at the very least be a Heisman finalist before getting injured, and coached circles around Brian Kelly on his home field. Josh Heupel also took over a Tennessee team coming off a 3-7 record and losing 35 players, while Brian Kelly took over an LSU team coming off a 6-7 season with a bowl game and only three years removed from a natty. In Brian Kelly's three years at LSU, he has a 29-11 record with trips to the Citrus, ReliaQuest and Texas Bowls while Heupel has went 30-9 with trips to the Orange bowl, Citrus bowl and CFP while working through NCAA sanctions and a much less favorable recruiting area. Since Kelly has been at LSU, his ceiling has been the Citrus bowl, which has been Heupel's floor during that same three year stretch.

Okay, now do the 15 years or whatever it was before he got to LSU. If we are sitting here in 15 years and Josh Heupel has the same winning percentage that he has now, makes a title game, makes a final 4 in another year, has a couple undefeated regular seasons, has a Heisman winner, and makes a couple conference title games outside of those seasons, then I think everyone here would say he is a top 10 coach. And that would put him right on par with what Brian Kelly has done for 20 years. Heupel seems to be on a path that will put him right on par with Kelly. Difference is Kelly has sustained it for two decades.

 

[LegionnaireOfTheMiserable]

So, in this thread, you have used Ryan Day's head to head win over Heupel to defend Day's ranking and the notion he is a better coach than Heupel, then turned around and scoffed at the idea of someone else using the same logic when comparing Heupel to Kelly. That sound about right?

If you’d like to argue that Heupel is better than a guy who badly outcoached him head to head, has won a national championship, and has the second best winning percentage in the history of the game, then by all means, let’s hear it.

If the only thing Day had over Heupel was a head to head victory, I may not say that Day was better than Heupel, just as I wouldn’t say Sam Pittman or even Jeff Brohm is better than Heupel. As for Heupel vs Kelly, Kelly has roughly 270 other games under his belt, aside from that loss to Heupel. And he has won almost 200 of them. I put quite a bit of weight on having that much success for that long.

 

[VAVol85]

To be honest, with the exception of Smart, there's nobody in the SEC that I'd rather have over Coach Heupel.

And if I were trading for Smart, I would definitely want access to all of that Georgia HS football talent as part of the package!

 

[Behr]

I struggle with the 4 guys above Heup on this list. Ferentz at 14 is an absolute joke. We saw what happened when a true freshman in his first ever start did to them in the bowl game...

Id like to see Brohm, Campbell, and Kleiman take that next step up in a watered down conference before putting them over a SEC coach that took over a dumpster fire and won 10 regular season games in 2 out of last 3 years...

Im OK with Kelly's rating. Slimy guy but still a very good coach.

You're doing this wrong.

 

[Remy]

He’s at LSU. You fall out of bed and you have 80% of your recruiting done. I don’t think too highly of him either. I think he’s a very good coach, but he’s always talked about like he’s some elite guy. He’s not.

If we’re gonna talk about all that he’s done at LSU, I guess we can talk Orgeron being better Kelly, given that he discovered Joe Burrow, Jefferson, Chase etc… actually won an SEC title and 2 CFP games and a National title. I guess if Coach O were still there he’s easily better than Brian Kelly. Then on to The Hat who won a national title, played in the several and won the SEC a handful of times. And then there was that coach before Les Miles, who was that again? Yeah the last 3 guys all won National Titles at LSU, something our guy Kelly here has yet to accomplish, while also destroying the LSU defense. Some situations are tailor made and expectations are incredibly high. And some people better not come out and drop their 4th season opener in a row . At least if they do this year it would be an acceptable loss, unlike the previous years.

Coach O also went undefeated as USC’s interim HC and they dumped him. To which he went on to LSU and won a NC then they dumped him. No doubt Coach O has a few character flaws but he can evaluate talent and coach winning football.

 

[RDU VOL#14]

Coach O also went undefeated as USC’s interim HC and they dumped him. To which he went on to LSU and won a NC then they dumped him. No doubt Coach O has a few character flaws but he can evaluate talent and coach winning football.

Coach O definitely has some very good qualities, but he’s not the guy that’s going to lead a big time program like LSU beyond 3-4 years.

 

[LouderVol]

Coach O definitely has some very good qualities, but he’s not the guy that’s going to lead a big time program like LSU beyond 3-4 years.

O was a motivator and a recruiter. probably not the "grand strategist" you want pulling the strings as a head coach. but like with most national title winning coaches, he was able to win with great coordinators around him.

Saban really is the only HC you can reliably say didn't rely on his coordinators to win championships.

 

[LegionnaireOfTheMiserable]

O was a motivator and a recruiter. probably not the "grand strategist" you want pulling the strings as a head coach. but like with most national title winning coaches, he was able to win with great coordinators around him.

Saban really is the only HC you can reliably say didn't rely on his coordinators to win championships.

Saban always had great coordinators when he won championships. Jimbo, Kirby, Kiffin, Sark, Daboll, even Pruitt. Turns out that most championship teams have really good coaching staffs.

 

[TrueOrange]

How many coaches above Heup have never taken a team to the CFP? I love these kinds of lists. Put on more steam!! LFGBO!

5 (Kiffin, Campbell, Whittingham, Klieman. Brohm)

 

[LouderVol]

Saban always had great coordinators when he won championships. Jimbo, Kirby, Kiffin, Sark, Daboll, even Pruitt. Turns out that most championship teams have really good coaching staffs.

Saban's ability to find them is a skill the elite HC has to have, no one else has shown his level. and you mentioned 6 coordinators, across his 7 Championships and two decades.

2003: Jimbo and Muschamp
2009: McElwain and Smart
2011: McElwain and Smart
2012: Nussmeier and Smart
2015: Kiffin and Smart
2017: Daboll and Pruitt
2020: Sark and Golding

Muschamp could also probably be on that list.

 

[RDU VOL#14]

Saban's ability to find them is a skill the elite HC has to have, no one else has shown his level. and you mentioned 6 coordinators, across his 7 Championships and two decades.

2003: Jimbo and Muschamp
2009: McElwain and Smart
2011: McElwain and Smart
2012: Nussmeier and Smart
2015: Kiffin and Smart
2017: Daboll and Pruitt
2020: Sark and Golding

Muschamp could also probably be on that list.

Saban always had great coordinators when he won championships. Jimbo, Kirby, Kiffin, Sark, Daboll, even Pruitt. Turns out that most championship teams have really good coaching staffs.

Secure, highly successful people often keep other highly intelligent people around them. Saban’s greatest asset beyond bringing in quality coaches, was his ability to adapt to the changing landscape of college football. He went from basically 3 yards and a cloud of dust grind you down w/ defense philosophy to having one of the most prolific offenses in modern football in 2020.

 

[xpsyclonex2002]

Sure, if you pretend PSU didn't make the CFP semi-final, or he didnt win the BIG 10 before.

and if you pretend that the Big 10 is comparable to the SEC.

Sure, OHST won this big one this year and Michigan last year. The NIL has allowed some teams to slant the table their way in the last couple of years. But as a conference they have 3 national championships in the last 20 years and Penn State wasn't one of them. So let's not pretend that Penn St is some juggernaut. No one, and I mean no one, legit thought they stood a chance at winning the playoffs. And they had one of the easiest avenues to get to the finals. They beat SMU and Boise. And if it weren't for those 2 wins, they would have a losing bowl game record under Franklin. Even with the two wins they are only at 50% in bowl wins.
I'm not saying Franklin is an turnip. But he isn't a top 15 coach.

 

[VOLINVONORE]

Being more accomplished on its own does not mean you are a better coach. It may be true, but it doesn't give the whole story. The path to accomplishments may or may not be easier from the position some of those coaches are in.

James Franklin has a 13-27 (.325) record against AP top 25 teams while at Penn State. Josh Heupel is 10-10 (.500) at Tennessee. Notre Dame had a great run in the playoffs last season, but let's not forget Marcus Freeman has dropped games to to the likes of NIU and Marshall in his short three year tenure as HC. Deboar also, while having success in the Pac 12, still has a lot to prove. Losing to 6-6 teams like Vandy and Oklahoma and missing the playoffs with a program inherited from Nick Saban isn't necessarily a result expected of a top 10 coach.

I agree with that.

 

[VOLINVONORE]

Josh Heupel has a career .739 winning percentage to Brian Kelly's .728(.704 including NCAA vacated wins), had a G5 team with a 12-0 regular season record, made a playoff, developed a Biletnikoff winner as well as a QB who was on track to at the very least be a Heisman finalist before getting injured, and coached circles around Brian Kelly on his home field. Josh Heupel also took over a Tennessee team coming off a 3-7 record and losing 35 players, while Brian Kelly took over an LSU team coming off a 6-7 season with a bowl game and only three years removed from a natty. In Brian Kelly's three years at LSU, he has a 29-11 record with trips to the Citrus, ReliaQuest and Texas Bowls while Heupel has went 30-9 with trips to the Orange bowl, Citrus bowl and CFP while working through NCAA sanctions and a much less favorable recruiting area. Since Kelly has been at LSU, his ceiling has been the Citrus bowl, which has been Heupel's floor during that same three year stretch.

You got it .

 

[Jackcrevol]

I would have said more like #10-13 but ok. But its what they said here that makes it more spicy.

If Tennessee didn't hit rock bottom after firing Jeremy Pruitt amid an NCAA investigation, it at least could reach down and touch the bottom. Then Josh Heupel arrived and pulled the Vols out of peril. He’s beaten Alabama twice. He jolted Tennessee’s offense to life with his warp-speed system. In a sign of coaching growth, he made the playoff by building a good defense. He’s a coach with a high floor, even if he might be nearing his ceiling.

College football's top 25 coaches: Kirby Smart, Ryan Day lead list ruled by Big Ten

I guess nobody can coach a natty till they do, eh?

Ill pull up a chair while you guys discuss.

This was E Cains exact podcast today.

I dont like the word at all. But, ESPN...

 

[Remy]

O was a motivator and a recruiter. probably not the "grand strategist" you want pulling the strings as a head coach. but like with most national title winning coaches, he was able to win with great coordinators around him.

Saban really is the only HC you can reliably say didn't rely on his coordinators to win championships.

Not sure I agree with that. Coach O won out with a very deflated Trojan group of players and staff and then went on to win the NC at LSU with a different staff and players. To my mind that's not accidental and demonstrates he had better than good HC chops under his belt. I'm not saying he was God's gift to changing the collegiate game. Nor was he a saint or an angel when it came to character. But he was a very good talent evaluator and could coach winning football.

 

[thehardknoxlife]

He coached circles around Heupel and Banks in December.

No, Chip Kelly did. Along with the huge talent gap.

Do people forget Day was literally a playoff loss away from being fired. He's lucky that talent and Kelly saved his career.

 

[BernardKingGOAT]

No, Chip Kelly did. Along with the huge talent gap.

Do people forget Day was literally a playoff loss away from being fired. He's lucky that talent and Kelly saved his career.

I agree, but you must give Day credit for adding him to the staff. Placing more knowledgeable and experienced personnel in key positions is an attribute of a great coach. In addition, it's effective leadership

 

[sonofUT62]

No, Chip Kelly did. Along with the huge talent gap.

Do people forget Day was literally a playoff loss away from being fired. He's lucky that talent and Kelly saved his career.

Who hired Kelly?