Unofficial Coaching Search Thread

Easy to spend other peoples money isn't it

With great power comes great responsibility.

If it's true that they humiliated a solid coach and basically forced him out the door then they're far more to blame and far more responsible for the bad press and general chaos/mess due to timing of CCM's departure than all the regular fans combined and should pony up for a replacement. They wanted better bad enough to push CCM out and pushing him out = owning that action. When you break it you buy it and if the allegations/rumors are true they broke it.
 
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With great power comes great responsibility.

If it's true that they humiliated a solid coach and basically forced him out the door then they're far more to blame and far more responsible for the bad press and general chaos/mess due to timing of CCM's departure than all the regular fans combined and should pony up for a replacement. They wanted better bad enough to push CCM out and pushing him out = owning that action. When you break it you buy it and if the allegations/rumors are true they broke it.

I'm not sure they broke it now. I think this was simply an evaluation of the coach's talent and his desire to stay and build this program. The offer on the table was fair given Martin's record and his long-held desire to leave town.

Hart established a line he would not cross to keep Martin here. He made a choice not to challenge Cal's offer. It is incumbent on Hart to replace him with as good or better. No so-called "high profile" assistants; no mid-majors with little or no experience to their name.

The folks on the list BTO provided in his brilliant analysis would all meet or exceed what we had before if one looks at where Coach Martin was when he was hired as head coach. I think each of them would easily exceed him as a recruiter and all of them would be a more comfortable fit here at Tennessee.

I'm not troubled about a project being selected so long as that project has proven experience building a program. We can pay him what he's worth and, if he grows on the job, then it will be possible to build upon his salary as he proves himself worthy of it in the same manner as a Pearl here or a Donovan at UF.

This is a good job with great support. The attendance figures since the 1970s are no lie. This has been a sturdy basketball program in general since it was first led by Nathan Dougherty in 1908. It has seen strong coaches like Mauer and Mears and great players like Mehen and King throughout its history. We haven't won national titles. We haven't been to the Final 4. But we have been good in general. Presently, we have the potential to be great; everything is in place to do so.

If we find the man who can unlock the potential and keep it going, then you will see Tennessee join the elite level and commit to staying there.

What I hope Hart is seeking out is the Neyland for our basketball program: the individual who can take the program to national prominence, keep it there, and leave a legacy that can truly be built upon by his successors.
 
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Really doesn't surprise me that Tennessee's athletic department is looking for someone that'll be cheap instead of ponying up big time cash for a well known coach. Guarantee we'll end up with someone similar to Martin's resume. Hart tends to shop at the Dollar General a lot.

I agree, the man went to the Knoxville zoo for crying out loud! The kids probably wanted to go to Disney, and he told them he couldn't afford it! Cheek agreed! Need to hire Fulmer as AD. JMO
 
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Reading this thread gave me a headache.

It would be interesting if UT actually published the operating budget of the AD showing the revenue brought in, then how it's being distributed. Sometimes I wonder if we're buying $200 hammers or something. Just seems most buyouts should be paid by now, so where is the money going?
 
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I actually like Cronin more than Mack. I like that he rebuilt a program and is doing well. That article seemed to indicate he was interested in us, but we were not interested in him.

Agree. Cronin is my #1, Mack is around #6.

If Hart isn't interested in Cronin, we're fubarred.
 
I almost never post. Gotta love that intro as it is almost always followed by a made up story. Oh well. I have a friend who is a sports agent. Sometimes he shares useful things. The last time he shared something useful, it was regarding Gruden and his agent. I posted a series of posts discussing the low likelihood of Gruden landing at Tennessee. It was very unpopular. Maybe this post will be less controversial. I spoke to my friend last night. Here are some highlights from my conversation: My friend who spends all of his waking moments evaluating coaching talent (and negotiating for coaches) views Cronin as the most underrated coach in the market. Cronin is not his client, but he is a client in their firm. Cronin has been in a rift with his AD for a couple of years with little progress on key infrastructure issues. Cronin will listen to Mizzou, and UT. Cronin and Butch are friends. Butch has conveyed that the infrastructure at UT is like no other. While we may not love Hart or Cheek, Butch feels very supported at all levels and has received everything he has asked for. Cronin is aware of this. Hart's representatives have spoken to Cronin. Rest assured that one of two things will happen. Cincy will change their position on key issues related to improving infrastructure in the department, or Cronin will leave. While Cronin is pretty entrenched in the Cincy community, charities etc., he is at the end of his string. My friend views UT as having a much higher chance of landing him than Mizzou.
 
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I almost never post. Gotta love that intro as it is almost always followed by a made up story. Oh well. I have a friend who is a sports agent. Sometimes he shares useful things. The last time he shared something useful, it was regarding Gruden and his agent. I posted a series of posts discussing the low likelihood of Gruden landing at Tennessee. It was very unpopular. Maybe this post will be less controversial. I spoke to my friend last night. Here are some highlights from my conversation: My friend who spends all of his waking moments evaluating coaching talent (and negotiating for coaches) views Cronin as the most underrated coach in the market. Cronin is not his client, but he is a client in their firm. Cronin has been in a rift with his AD for a couple of years with little progress on key infrastructure issues. Cronin will listen to Mizzou, and UT. Cronin and Butch are friends. Butch has conveyed that the infrastructure at UT is like no other. While we may not love Hart or Cheek, Butch feels very supported at all levels and has received everything he has asked for. Cronin is aware of this. Hart's representatives have spoken to Cronin. Rest assured that one of two things will happen. Cincy will change their position on key issues related to improving infrastructure in the department, or Cronin will leave. While Cronin is pretty entrenched in the Cincy community, charities etc., he is at the end of his string. My friend views UT as having a much higher chance of landing him than Mizzou.

Good info, thanks!
 
I almost never post. Gotta love that intro as it is almost always followed by a made up story. Oh well. I have a friend who is a sports agent. Sometimes he shares useful things. The last time he shared something useful, it was regarding Gruden and his agent. I posted a series of posts discussing the low likelihood of Gruden landing at Tennessee. It was very unpopular. Maybe this post will be less controversial. I spoke to my friend last night. Here are some highlights from my conversation: My friend who spends all of his waking moments evaluating coaching talent (and negotiating for coaches) views Cronin as the most underrated coach in the market. Cronin is not his client, but he is a client in their firm. Cronin has been in a rift with his AD for a couple of years with little progress on key infrastructure issues. Cronin will listen to Mizzou, and UT. Cronin and Butch are friends. Butch has conveyed that the infrastructure at UT is like no other. While we may not love Hart or Cheek, Butch feels very supported at all levels and has received everything he has asked for. Cronin is aware of this. Hart's representatives have spoken to Cronin. Rest assured that one of two things will happen. Cincy will change their position on key issues related to improving infrastructure in the department, or Cronin will leave. While Cronin is pretty entrenched in the Cincy community, charities etc., he is at the end of his string. My friend views UT as having a much higher chance of landing him than Mizzou.

Thanks for sharing the info. You would think Butch would have nothing but good things to say to friends he has at his previous employer. It would be very hard to compare cincy and UT in terms of facilities and what the coaches have access to. Only thing has me questioning Hart making a play for Cronin would be the money. I think I saw where he made 1.55 or so in 2013. The offer would have to be north of 2 million per to get him thinking. If Hart is going north of 2 mil, IMO Marshall and Smart have to be in play. If I'm an AD and I am shopping coaches in the 1.8-2.3 area, I'll find a booster willing to chip in the extra 500-700 grand and I will go get the homerun(at least in the fans eyes) in Marshall. JMO
 
Promising a commitment to better facilities is one thing. Actually delivering is another

Thanks for posting. Would be thrilled w Cronin
 
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Promising a commitment to better facilities is one thing. Actually delivering is another

Thanks for posting. Would be thrilled w Cronin


I have read Cronin received a raise in February, is making 2.2 now . Unless he is unhappy at Cincy, it will take 2.5 - 2.75 to get him here.

Will TN pay that kind of money for him?

If so, why not pay 3 million and get Marshall.
 
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I have read Cronin received a raise in February, is making 2.2 now . Unless he is unhappy at Cincy, it will take 2.5 - 2.75 to get him here.

Will TN pay that kind of money for him?

If so, why not pay 3 million and get Marshall.

That would be my feeling as well.
 
I have read Cronin received a raise in February, is making 2.2 now . Unless he is unhappy at Cincy, it will take 2.5 - 2.75 to get him here.

Will TN pay that kind of money for him?

If so, why not pay 3 million and get Marshall.

Completely. I guess underrated doesn't mean underpaid.
 
I figured it would be nice to have somewhere for those who maybe don't read every single page, of every thread to have a summarized version as to what has taken place over the last 3+ days. When news first broke of Martin leaving for Cal the initial "Coaching Hot Board's" had quite a few names as you would expect, I may have forgotten 1 or 2, but heres most of them:

Gregg Marshall (Wichita State)
Shaka Smart (VCU)
Lawrence Frank(BKN Nets)
Tom Crean (Indiana)
Ben Howland (former UCLA)
Archie Miller (Dayton)
Tad Boyle (Colorado)
Rick Byrd (Belmont)
Michael White (Louisiana Tech)
Donnie Tyndall (Southern Miss)
Allan Houston (Knicks frontoffice)
Tim Miles (Nebraska)
Chris Mack (Xavier)
Tubby Smith (Texas Tech)
Mick Cronin (Cincinnati)
Will Wade (UT-Chattanooga)
Brad Brownell (Clemson)
Chris Mooney (Richmond)
Richard Pitino (Minnesota)


So after 3 days where do things stand? Well, there hasn't been a whole lot of concrete information come out as far as X candidate saying they're definitely interested or Y candidate saying they're definitely not interested. There has been some statements from AD's, but as we know that doesn't always mean the coach feels the same way.

From this point forward is not fact, it is speculation on my part which I will provide quotes and links for some, and what I truly believe has happened. As I mentioned above though, unless a coach says it themselves, and sometimes even if a coach says it, doesn't necessarily mean it is true. So, with that said...


Money is a major issue: and not in a good way. According to volquest.com multiple sources indicated to them that Tennessee could've gotten Gregg Marshall or Tad Boyle to the negotiating table if they were willing to pay north of $2 million. Dave Hart doesn't feel that Tennessee is in a financial position to pay that much for a basketball coach, so you likely can eliminate those 2 names. I would also include Shaka Smart into that same group as well as you're not going to get Shaka Smart for less than $2.5 million in my opinion. Include Tom Crean into this as it would take well over $2 million to attract him as well.


No Thanks: that seems to be what Dave Hart has said to both Tubby Smith and Ben Howland. Both reportedly reached out to Tennessee to make them aware of their interest, but as of right now it doesn't appear that it goes both ways. Tubby Smith I would imagine because of how he left Minnesota, and Ben Howland because of the NCAA issues that appear to be haunting him.


He's not interested....says the AD in regards to Richard Pitino. Now the question becomes, do you believe Pitino told his AD this, or do you believe his AD took it upon himself to say this? Speculation seems to be that it is indeed the case, as this would be Pitino's 3rd job in as many years, and that isn't exactly appealing to him. Still, Tennessee is expected to reach out to him, and want to hear first hand from him that he's not interested.

A couple on Cincy boys...are very interested, at least according to Wes Rucker of 247. Chris Mack of Xavier and Mick Cronin of Cincinnati have both responded to Tennessee and let them know they are interested in the opening. The odd thing here is that both coach at their alma mater, so on the surface you wouldn't expect either to make the move. However...In Mack's case he plays in a Big East that seems to be falling apart by the day, and he makes less than $1/yr reportedly. As for Cronin, he's playing in a solid conference, but has been fighting for years to try and get upgrades done for his program, no such luck to date. It's also rumored that he hasn't signed the new extension that was offered to him months ago, and his current salary is around $1.5 million. Cronin could be a case of Buzz Williams, takes similar or less money, at possibly a worse school in a better conference for the chance to make it big there with more support.

It's Miller time...I'm talking about Archie Miller. On the surface you see a guy at a mid major in Dayton, whos rumored to be making between $600-$800k on the deal he signed in February. Nobody knows his buyout, but I would assume it's a decent amount as he just signed the deal 2 months ago. Could Tennessee afford Miller? absolutely. However, Archie also likely realizes what Tennessee has at this point. He sees a tough job next year ahead of him, where as at Dayton he's one more good year away from being the next Brad Stevens (ok not quite, but you get the point). I expect Tennessee to reach out to Miller, and try to engage in some serious talks, but at the end of the day I would be surprised if they are able to pull him.


The great C-USA...that's where all the great coaches start at right? Well anyways, Michael White and Donnie Tyndall. These 2 are both serious candidates and have reportedly let Tennessee know they are indeed interested. Both should be available pretty cheap, which if you read the part about money being an issue these 2 have to be very appealing to Hart. Both of these guys make around $600k with about the same buyout, so for what Cal owes you on Martin you can buyout one of these guys and may the majority of their first year salary.

No Phil Jackson?...it appears not, or any other NBA tie for that matter. I doubt Allan Houston was every really an option, but hey his name was out there so thought I would address it. Lawrence Frank is a name that seems to always get thrown around with Tennessee fans, but reality is he seems to be a NBA lifer, so moving on.


Homegrown Heroes...talking about Will Wade and Rick Byrd. Wade coaches right down the road at UTC, and Byrd is a Tennessee grad who has been at Belmont for what seems like at least 100 years. While Tennessee has reached out to both to at least gauge interest, it doesn't appear the coaching search will fall far enough for either to really become a likely candidate.


So who's left...Tim Miles, Brad Brownell and Chris Mooney. Never really thought Tim Miles was a legitimate candidate. He's currently making $1.4 million and I'm sure that's getting ready to go up with the job he did last year. That means Tennessee would likely have to offer up at least $2 million and I really don't see him being the guy Hart would offer that much up to. Miles has also leaked out through a few national media outlets that he's not interested, and even the day of Martin leaving let it known he wasn't interested. As for the other 2, it doesn't appear Tennessee has reached out to either as Mooney seemingly missed the elevator on being a hot name, and Brownell has struggled in recent years, have to imagine both are far down the list.






So, what has happened in 3 days? (once again this is speculation on my part based on reports out there and some educated guessing)....on the surface not a whole lot, but really exactly what you thought would go on appears to have. Dave Hart has had people in his office reach out to probably anywhere from 25-50 names across the country to gauge interest. Get numbers as far as salaries, buyouts, and just an overall gauge of interest as well. As I mentioned in the beginning money is clearly an issue, so that's something that im sure was addressed in most of the phone calls to bigger names.

So weeding through all of this, I feel pretty confident (which in a coaching search means nothing) that Dave Hart is likely down to about 4-6 realistic candidates, and that the next coach will come from this list.

Michael White
Donnie Tyndall
Chris Mack
Richard Pitino
Mick Cronin
Archie Miller


What it very well could come down to is money. In order of accomplishments Chris Mack, Mick Cronin, Archie Miller, Donnie Tyndall, Michael White and Richard Pitino imo. If Dave Hart feels he can get either of the 1st two names for under $1.8 million that's likely your guy, if neither is willing to leave their alma mater for the price then it will fall down the list in my opinion. I could also see a scenario where Michael White's southern ties, and inexpensive ticket price are very appealing and Dave Hart interviews him before anyone else. If he nails the interview I could see him being offered the job before even trying with Mack or Cronin.




Sorry for the length of this post, kind of ended up turning into a complete rant, but i'll try to make the next update (if there is one) a bit shorter:)

Why was this merged, that was the whole point of it was to provide a thread with a summary in the OP so people didn't have to sift through 100s of pages?
 
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VQ pretty much said Tennessee isn't interested in Cronin, and 247 said he's lobbying for a raise and promised renovations from Cincy.

Hopefully Hart can weed out the guys just looking for a raise pretty quick. When the interview starts with the coach saying, "I want to record this meeting for my current AD", hopefully Hart ends the meeting there. :p
 
I think we have a coach hired and announced no later than Wednesday. New coach desperately needs in place before next weekend.
 
Was Cincy not good before him? Averaged 24 wins a year the 3 seasons prior to his arrival?

Cronin's first roster had only 1 contributor from the previous year. It was a completely different team. He essentially started from scratch.

But Mack inherited a pretty good situation following Sean Miller
 
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I almost never post. Gotta love that intro as it is almost always followed by a made up story. Oh well. I have a friend who is a sports agent. Sometimes he shares useful things. The last time he shared something useful, it was regarding Gruden and his agent. I posted a series of posts discussing the low likelihood of Gruden landing at Tennessee. It was very unpopular. Maybe this post will be less controversial. I spoke to my friend last night. Here are some highlights from my conversation: My friend who spends all of his waking moments evaluating coaching talent (and negotiating for coaches) views Cronin as the most underrated coach in the market. Cronin is not his client, but he is a client in their firm. Cronin has been in a rift with his AD for a couple of years with little progress on key infrastructure issues. Cronin will listen to Mizzou, and UT. Cronin and Butch are friends. Butch has conveyed that the infrastructure at UT is like no other. While we may not love Hart or Cheek, Butch feels very supported at all levels and has received everything he has asked for. Cronin is aware of this. Hart's representatives have spoken to Cronin. Rest assured that one of two things will happen. Cincy will change their position on key issues related to improving infrastructure in the department, or Cronin will leave. While Cronin is pretty entrenched in the Cincy community, charities etc., he is at the end of his string. My friend views UT as having a much higher chance of landing him than Mizzou.

Good info, Thanks! If memory serves, Huggins had a bad relationship with Cincy admin too, which is why he was interested in UT in 2005. He was fired not long after that and went to K State. I wouldn't be shocked to see Cincy let Cronin walk if it gets to that point. That would be an attractive job for many coaches who they could likely get cheaper. They let Huggins go and got along well, so I wouldn't doubt they would do it again. Wonder if Howland would land there. Doubt it. I think with coaches, fit is important. So, do you all think Cronin would be as successful at UT? There have been coaches, such as Todd Lickliter, who could't duplicate success at their new schools but prospered at another place. Any concern at all about Cronin or do you all think he is a h0me run worth 2.2-2.5 million? I do, just curious to hear thoughts.
 
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