University of Chicago drops ACT/SAT requirements

#52
#52
I never took the SAT, but from what I understand there are essays that are graded. Those are subjective. I think it is BS to have a 'perfect' score on anything that is subjective and that it is legitimate. That's why figure skating and gymnastics in the Olympics should be exhibition sports only. Bigger, faster, stronger. period.

/rant.

Oh, and no professionals.

/now I am done
 
#53
#53
SpaceCoastVol said:
I never took the SAT, but from what I understand there are essays that are graded. Those are subjective. I think it is BS to have a 'perfect' score on anything that is subjective and that it is legitimate. That's why figure skating and gymnastics in the Olympics should be exhibition sports only. Bigger, faster, stronger. period.

/rant.

Oh, and no professionals.

/now I am done
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When I took it, I don't recall them being graded. They were, however, given to each school to which you applied.
 
#54
#54
ClearwaterVol said:
No. I went back to school and finished with a 3.997 in my major and something right around 3 overall. Got a stellar LSAT score, letters from 3 federal judges and boom. Got into Memphis. I was wait listed by UT (only 2 schools I applied to) UT let me in a week before school started, but I had already signed a lease and moved to Memphis.
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Well done CWV.
 
#55
#55
82_VOL_83 said:
Well done CWV.
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I wasted a crap ton of my parents money. When it was my money (undergrad) or my loans (law school) success really was not in doubt.

That said if I would have been two years later, I could not have gotten into any school besides the Nashville School of Law level schools. The grades and the scores necessary to get in rose a lot.
 
#56
#56
volkyries said:
This change coupled with tons of people coming out of high school with inflated grades over 4.0 just doesn't make sense to me. I love how everyone cheers this using the reasoning that "people are not able to test well" which hurts them. I don't think I have really met someone who is actually above intelligent that "doesn't test well". Most seem to not test well because they don't know the information.

How do you decide to give scholarships, if everyone has the same GPA of 4.5 on a 4.0 scale? Essays? What about the good testers that don't write well. :confused:

Edit: I do like that they might eventually bust up the monopolies created by the testing organizations. The two tests are only given by those two organizations.
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You normalize those grades. Divide the inflated GPA by whatever the ridiculous top number is and then multiply by 4. If students can get a 5 then the new number is the inflated GPA X 4/5. Maybe if high skools playing the stupid game realize the jig is up they'll go back to GPA norms.
 
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#57
#57
n_huffhines said:
I didn't have the ACT score to get into BYU out of HS, but I transferred there and saw all these kids who had scored 30+ on the ACT struggle in intro to econ. ST's serve a purpose, but I would be surprised if it's the best method for achieving that purpose.
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Wow, we agree for once. Standardized tests are a money grab, and don't serve nearly as great a purpose as everyone wants to think. If they did, we could just cancel schools and let kid do test preps on their home computers.
 
#58
#58
AM64 said:
You normalize those grades. Divide the inflated GPA by whatever the ridiculous top number is and then multiply by 4. If students can get a 5 then the new number is the inflated GPA X 4/5. Maybe if high skools playing the stupid game realize the jig is up they'll go back to GPA norms.
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I used to think this way, but if two students graduate high school with straight As... Student A takes all general curriculum courses (no honors or AP) and Student B takes a significant number of higher level courses there should be a way to easily differentiate between the two and the weighted grades do just that.
 
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#59
#59
ClearwaterVol said:
I used to think this way, but if two students graduate high school with straight As... Student A takes all general curriculum courses (no honors or AP) and Student B takes a significant number of higher level courses there should be a way to easily differentiate between the two and the weighted grades do just that.
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The Valedictorian in my high school took the easiest path offered. It was controversial way back then.
 
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#60
#60
Biopsyman said:
I know tons.. smart people usually are high achievers unless they are bored
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Which is a major reason we need to dump the "teach to the middle" routine in schools and group kids according to scholastic ability. We need the smarter kids challenging each other to complete with third world countries like India. Equality equals mediocrity when it comes to education.
 
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#61
#61
ClearwaterVol said:
I used to think this way, but if two students graduate high school with straight As... Student A takes all general curriculum courses (no honors or AP) and Student B takes a significant number of higher level courses there should be a way to easily differentiate between the two and the weighted grades do just that.
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I went through high school in mostly honors courses (no AP back then) - I did attend and take college courses between my Jr and Sr year. My HS GPA suffered because I could have had easy A's in normal classes, but college was a lot easier. Colleges need to recognize that qualifications are more than simple numbers; I know I will always respect a kid who took the hard road especially when it doesn't show numerically on the report card.
 
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#62
#62
ClearwaterVol said:
No. I went back to school and finished with a 3.997 in my major and something right around 3 overall. Got a stellar LSAT score, letters from 3 federal judges and boom. Got into Memphis. I was wait listed by UT (only 2 schools I applied to) UT let me in a week before school started, but I had already signed a lease and moved to Memphis.
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I did something similar but with a better GPA. Quit in my Jr year at UT and enlisted in the Army (in 1967). Going back to school a few years later was a lot harder because it amounted to actually trying to do something rather than simply surviving a rite of passage.
 
#63
#63
AM64 said:
Which is a major reason we need to dump the "teach to the middle" routine in schools and group kids according to scholastic ability. We need the smarter kids challenging each other to complete with third world countries like India. Equality equals mediocrity when it comes to education.
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One problem with your approach is bored smart underachieving kids being relegated to classes that will never pique their interest or challenge them, and getting stuck there year after year.

Evidently, CWV may fall into that category. How would his life be different if he had been fully engaged in high school and college and been able to enter the law school of his choice. And, upon graduating, have a job at a high paying prestigious firm waiting on him. One thing I know, he wouldn't have time for the VN PF, that's for sure.
 
#64
#64
I wonder if the school also dropped their community service requirements, or that you be part of the male field hockey cheer team AND not so scholarly bowl team.
 
#65
#65
AM64 said:
I did something similar but with a better GPA. Quit in my Jr year at UT and enlisted in the Army (in 1967). Going back to school a few years later was a lot harder because it amounted to actually trying to do something rather than simply surviving a rite of passage.
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Thankyou for your service AM64.

Amen. Getting back into the rigor of the university mechanical engineering environment after being out for Vietnam then working while taking community college classes was a slap in the face for me. In high school I was more interested in who I was asking on a date than any class. I did my homework in study hall and played some kind pickup game or whatever afterward. Rarely did I take a book out of the school. I made Bs and As and that was all I cared about. I took the ACT as a junior and remember only that it wasn't bad, so I didn't try to improve it as a senior...but I scored high enough to get in to UT, that was all I cared about.

I would have done so much better in high school and college if I had somehow been emotionally engaged in at least 7-12 grades.

By the way, Chicago, one of America's most is not wanting for applicants. With a total undergrad enrollment of just under 7,000, there were OVER 30,000 applicant's for what freshman slots were available of that number.

..."Applications to the College set a new record this year, with 30,369 students from diverse backgrounds submitting applications.

The total represents a 20 percent increase over last year’s figure of 25,307, continuing a longstanding trend of growing interest in the distinctive intellectual environment that the College offers.

University leaders said the growth in undergraduate applications stems from continuing efforts to enhance student life and provide more avenues for students to pursue their academic and career goals...sic..


Admissions to the University of Chicago is highly selective. The middle 50% band of SAT scores for the undergraduate class of 2019, excluding the writing section, was 1450–1550,[157] the average MCAT score for entering students in the Pritzker School of Medicine in 2011 was 36,[158] and the median LSAT score for entering students in the Law School in 2015 was 171.[159] For the class of 2022, the College of the University of Chicago had an acceptance rate of 7.2%, the lowest in the college's history and among the lowest in the country.[160]
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So, no, this categorically IS NOT a "money thing" as some have suggested.
 
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#67
#67
Orangedogsrule said:
One problem with your approach is bored smart underachieving kids being relegated to classes that will never pique their interest or challenge them, and getting stuck there year after year.

Evidently, CWV may fall into that category. How would his life be different if he had been fully engaged in high school and college and been able to enter the law school of his choice. And, upon graduating, have a job at a high paying prestigious firm waiting on him. One thing I know, he wouldn't have time for the VN PF, that's for sure.
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I would have started much earlier, but I wouldn't have been happy at the big firms. When i graduated law school, i knew myself better and turned down a big firm job. I enjoy the freedom being part of a small firm and i like growing a business from scratch. I also like the down time offered at a small firm so that I can spend time with my family.
 
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#68
#68
Orangedogsrule said:
Thankyou for your service AM64.

Amen. Getting back into the rigor of the university mechanical engineering environment after being out for Vietnam then working while taking community college classes was a slap in the face for me. In high school I was more interested in who I was asking on a date than any class. I did my homework in study hall and played some kind pickup game or whatever afterward. Rarely did I take a book out of the school. I made Bs and As and that was all I cared about. I took the ACT as a junior and remember only that it wasn't bad, so I didn't try to improve it as a senior...but I scored high enough to get in to UT, that was all I cared about.

I would have done so much better in high school and college if I had somehow been emotionally engaged in at least 7-12 grades.

By the way, Chicago, one of America's most is not wanting for applicants. With a total undergrad enrollment of just under 7,000, there were OVER 30,000 applicant's for what freshman slots were available of that number.



So, no, this categorically IS NOT a "money thing" as some have suggested.
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That's the point.., Lowering standards is never a good thing..
 
#71
#71
Obsessed said:
Ohhh ok.

My friend was a law/accounting professor there for years. I believe he was gone by then.

Back in the day, Huey’s was the best place to eat in midtown.
There was however, a little Russian place by the university that had great food.
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Ever see Trump there???
 
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#73
#73
ClearwaterVol said:
Really? You have evidence of this?

I had a 3.2 in high school and scored 33 on my ACT. I spent 4 years in college achieving a mighty 1.999 with 100+ credit hours that led nowhere. I believe that high scholastic achievement is a better indicator of continued success than a standardized test. I am downright gifted when it comes to standardized tests, but I am unmotivated unless I am engaged.
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I am similar. I dropped out and went to work after football season..in 10th and then 11th grade. Got my GED at 17, never looked back. I always aced tests though, was honored at Duke when i broke 1000 on the SAT as a 12 year old...it's called the TIP, talent identification program..measured near genius on IQ test the year before in 6th grade, won the school spelling bee all 3 years (lost in county all 3 times), competed on the math team in junior high and did well, etc,etc...but my grades were never above 4.0...and it was largely because I flat refused to do homework. Didn't pay much attention in class either really if i had a buddy or a hot girl in classes...I was just lazy. I knew I could be lazy and still make B's...so I was lazy. Total waste. I had an amazing world history teacher in HS...and he challenged and interested me in a way no other teacher ever had...I worked my absolute butt off to barely make A's in his class...flashcards with capitals off every country on the way to school, etc...and was more proud to make an A in his class than anything else I ever did in school. I completely understand the difference in effort and outcome between something that interests and challenges me and something that doesn't. I am OK with how my career turned out, etc...but if I had the focus and motivation to really apply myself academically, I know i could have been a nuclear engineer like my brother, or earned a couple masters degrees like my dad, etc. I will always wonder what could have been if i didn't piss away talent. I am still blessed to have my family, career, etc. Though, dont want to sound ungrateful.
 
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#74
#74
ClearwaterVol said:
I used to think this way, but if two students graduate high school with straight As... Student A takes all general curriculum courses (no honors or AP) and Student B takes a significant number of higher level courses there should be a way to easily differentiate between the two and the weighted grades do just that.
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Of course. Anyone who has taken AP classes (advanced placement,like AP English 12, you can take a placement test afterwards any get credit for freshmen college English) as well as regular classes ( my 10 year old daughter could make all As in regular 10th grade public school classes, I would bet the farm on it) ...anyone who has taken both knows for 100% certain that you should get an extra point. Not to sound crappy, but there are plenty of kids who make A's in regular classes that couldn't get a passing grade in AP classes of the same grade level. The difference in difficulty of the course itself, as well as the level of competition from peers, is incredible. Which matters when teachers grade on a curve. I took AP chemistry and AP physics, and both were brutal. On the other end of things, I could skip or sleep through class, and almost never do homework..and still make high B s or low As in regular classes. Apple's and oranges differences.
 
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#75
#75
SpaceCoastVol said:
The Valedictorian in my high school took the easiest path offered. It was controversial way back then.
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My son is on track to be valedictorian, and he has taken the hardest level classes at every chance in order to get there. If he chose differently now, or really badly started slipping, he could theoretically be caught...but at this point he is well ahead. My dad was a salutatorian? By .05 I believe to the 1st place guy. Bothered him til the day he died...just because it was a surprise to him, he thought going into his last semester that he would finish 1st. I dropped out..smdh...so I am very happy for and proud of both. If I can just see both of my kids through college, I will die with at least a measure of content, knowing that i got my kids off to a better start in life than my own. Please Lord, continue to bless them.
 
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