University of Chicago drops ACT/SAT requirements

#26
#26
For those claiming it's a money grab - if you read the article they are providing free-rides (tuition at least) to students from families with less than 125K annual income.

For 1st gen students they are offering significant scholarship help.

Sounds like they are trying to widen diversity of background of students rather than simply the typical diversity factors.

Makes sense to me but having worked in college admissions you still need indicators of ability to succeed. That's going to be the challenge.
 
#27
#27
Rifleman said:
I used to prep kids for these tests. All they measure is the quality of your prep for the test.

The material they cover is insanely easy to game as these are standardized and multiple choice. It is not like you are taking boards for a medical specialty or something.

The newer computer adaptive tests are a little harder to prep for, but I could still get anyone who isn't functionally illiterate into the top quartile.

On the old paper test, I got one kid from a 980 to a 1520 on the SAT in 6 weeks. This was a kid who had never read a novel and couldn't differentiate a rhombus from an octagon as a high school junior.

The idea that his 1520 showed his true academic potential, or that prepping for the SAT somehow made him a fundamentally smarter? It actually makes me laugh.

What it probably most measured is the fact that his parents could afford to pay for test prep, and he simply showed up to said prep.

This change is long overdue.
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Back in the dark ages when I took the ACT, there was no such thing as test prep. We went into the school cafeteria on a Saturday morning, and went into the test blind. I had no idea what the categories would be, or what kind of questions that would be asked.
 
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#28
#28
n_huffhines said:
I didn't have the ACT score to get into BYU out of HS, but I transferred there and saw all these kids who had scored 30+ on the ACT struggle in intro to econ. ST's serve a purpose, but I would be surprised if it's the best method for achieving that purpose.
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How would you know what anybody else scored after you got to college? I sure didn't know. It wasn't discussed.
 
#31
#31
IMHO, the ACT and SAT are terrible metrics for determining one's success in college. I know of someone who scored a 25 on their ACT (completely average) who graduated Summa Cum Laude (highest honors) at UT.
 
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#32
#32
Matt2496 said:
IMHO, the ACT and SAT are terrible metrics for determining one's success in college. I know of someone who scored a 25 on their ACT (completely average) who graduated Summa Cum Laude (highest honors) at UT.
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I know tons.. smart people usually are high achievers unless they are bored
 
#34
#34
This isn't a big deal. It lets more morons in who will flunk out before the first year ends. Bad for the students but good for the schools wallet. Yeah their graduation rate numbers might take a hit but I'm sure they will find a way to alter the numbers to fit their goals.
 
#35
#35
FLVOL_79 said:
This isn't a big deal. It lets more morons in who will flunk out before the first year ends. Bad for the students but good for the schools wallet. Yeah their graduation rate numbers might take a hit but I'm sure they will find a way to alter the numbers to fit their goals.
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Really? You have evidence of this?

I had a 3.2 in high school and scored 33 on my ACT. I spent 4 years in college achieving a mighty 1.999 with 100+ credit hours that led nowhere. I believe that high scholastic achievement is a better indicator of continued success than a standardized test. I am downright gifted when it comes to standardized tests, but I am unmotivated unless I am engaged.
 
#36
#36
ClearwaterVol said:
Really? You have evidence of this?

I had a 3.2 in high school and scored 33 on my ACT. I spent 4 years in college achieving a mighty 1.999 with 100+ credit hours that led nowhere. I believe that high scholastic achievement is a better indicator of continued success than a standardized test. I am downright gifted when it comes to standardized tests, but I am unmotivated unless I am engaged.
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What law school let you in with that GPA? UF?
 
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#37
#37
hog88 said:
What law school let you in with that GPA? UF?
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No. I went back to school and finished with a 3.997 in my major and something right around 3 overall. Got a stellar LSAT score, letters from 3 federal judges and boom. Got into Memphis. I was wait listed by UT (only 2 schools I applied to) UT let me in a week before school started, but I had already signed a lease and moved to Memphis.
 
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#38
#38
1972 Grad said:
How would you know what anybody else scored after you got to college? I sure didn't know. It wasn't discussed.
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we talked about it at UT. it was one of those icebreakers when you were getting to know people. certainly not one of the first things you brought up, but maybe at lunch after you knew each other a bit. common denominator type of thing.
 
#39
#39
LouderVol said:
we talked about it at UT. it was one of those icebreakers when you were getting to know people. certainly not one of the first things you brought up, but maybe at lunch after you knew each other a bit. common denominator type of thing.
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Things sure changed since I was in school. Either that or I didn't hang around people that scored high enough to brag about it.
 
#40
#40
hog88 said:
Things sure changed since I was in school. Either that or I didn't hang around people that scored high enough to brag about it.
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our college required more than just test scores. 3 different drawings, so we would be talking about the stuff we sent in to get accepted and the ACT comes up. I think with things being more competitive, for lack of better word, now its natural to talk about those things.
 
#41
#41
Matt2496 said:
IMHO, the ACT and SAT are terrible metrics for determining one's success in college. I know of someone who scored a 25 on their ACT (completely average) who graduated Summa Cum Laude (highest honors) at UT.
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A 25 put you in about the 75 or 80th percentile when I took it. A 27 was about 90th percentile. The average was about 19. You were a frickin' genius at 30.

I believe that the test has been dumbed down over the years. Of course, we had zero prep for the test in 1967.
 
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#42
#42
Rifleman said:
I used to prep kids for these tests. All they measure is the quality of your prep for the test.

The material they cover is insanely easy to game as these are standardized and multiple choice. It is not like you are taking boards for a medical specialty or something.

The newer computer adaptive tests are a little harder to prep for, but I could still get anyone who isn't functionally illiterate into the top quartile.

On the old paper test, I got one kid from a 980 to a 1520 on the SAT in 6 weeks. This was a kid who had never read a novel and couldn't differentiate a rhombus from an octagon as a high school junior.

The idea that his 1520 showed his true academic potential, or that prepping for the SAT somehow made him a fundamentally smarter? It actually makes me laugh.

What it probably most measured is the fact that his parents could afford to pay for test prep, and he simply showed up to said prep.

This change is long overdue.
Click to expand...
It needs to filter into college itself. College does little more than prove you are trainable. We all know that you get basic knowledge of your chosen field and don't do the real learning until you start working.

STs are a filter and nothing more. Chicago has chosen to not use the filter anymore. This is a non issue, and it is up to them to decide if they want to destroy their academic standing/reputation. The one thing I would say in their defense and after reading your post is that it shows that the kids care enough to bother with doing the work to prepare for those exams, regardless of the results. It will be interesting to see how they choose going forward.
 
#43
#43
ClearwaterVol said:
No. I went back to school and finished with a 3.997 in my major and something right around 3 overall. Got a stellar LSAT score, letters from 3 federal judges and boom. Got into Memphis. I was wait listed by UT (only 2 schools I applied to) UT let me in a week before school started, but I had already signed a lease and moved to Memphis.
Click to expand...

When were you at Memphis for law school?
 
#47
#47
ClearwaterVol said:
03-06. Lived in Cooper Young area. Bartended at Outback in Midtown
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Ohhh ok.

My friend was a law/accounting professor there for years. I believe he was gone by then.

Back in the day, Huey’s was the best place to eat in midtown.
There was however, a little Russian place by the university that had great food.
 
#48
#48
Obsessed said:
Ohhh ok.

My friend was a law/accounting professor there for years. I believe he was gone by then.

Back in the day, Huey’s was the best place to eat in midtown.
There was however, a little Russian place by the university that had great food.
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Hueys was good. Young Ave Deli and Blue Monkey were other dive favorites of mine.
 
#49
#49
ClearwaterVol said:
Really? You have evidence of this?

I had a 3.2 in high school and scored 33 on my ACT. I spent 4 years in college achieving a mighty 1.999 with 100+ credit hours that led nowhere. I believe that high scholastic achievement is a better indicator of continued success than a standardized test. I am downright gifted when it comes to standardized tests, but I am unmotivated unless I am engaged.
Click to expand...

If you can't make the basic ACT/SAT scores to get into a college chances are you aren't going to do good. Not sure many people remember those tests but weren't they just basic math and English? When I went to UT the minimum was a 17 on the ACT..and some football players still couldn't achieve that. I believe that is awarded for spelling your name correctly.

By removing that barrier you just lower the bar.
 
#50
#50
The best I was ever able to do was 29. I tried so hard to get that magical 30, but just fell short.
 
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