Ukraine Protests

[W.TN.Orange Blood]

LOL hahahahaha

George Bush. You guys are fantastic.

Always wanting to bring GW into the conversation....god man let it go!!!

 

[Velo Vol]

The problem is that unless the EU wants to impose tough economic sanctions here, and risk having their gas cut off, we have almost no leverage against Russia.

And it doesn't look like it does.

EU not seen matching US threat of sanctions against Russia | EurActiv

 

[lawgator1]

Fwiw I wouldn't offer a single criticism of Bush, or Romney, for this if it happened on their watch. The simple fact is that this is so far out of our sphere of influence that we can do nothing meaningful about it.

 

[Grand Vol]

Fwiw I wouldn't offer a single criticism of Bush, or Romney, for this if it happened on their watch. The simple fact is that this is so far out of our sphere of influence that we can do nothing meaningful about it.

Funny!

 

[DC_Vol]

Fwiw I wouldn't offer a single criticism of Bush, or Romney, for this if it happened on their watch. The simple fact is that this is so far out of our sphere of influence that we can do nothing meaningful about it.

Please tell Vladimir that I will have more flexibility after the election. - BHO

 

[PKT_VOL]

The enormous and obvious problem with that assertion (aside from the fact that it is rank speculation) is that it assumes that Putin would think that a harsher president on foreign policy would act to stop him in Crimea.

As no president, no matter how tough he might have been leading up to this, would ever act to stop the Russians in Crimea, it makes no difference.

In order for prior actions of Obama to have "invited" this, or otherwise made Putin think he could to it with impunity, you would have to believe that some other president would actually be perceived as ready to have done something other than what Obama is doing.

The entire argument fails because there is nothing any president could do in this situation.

And so, still, I am waiting for any coherent argument as to what any president could do to stop this. And I am going to be waiting I suspect forever because there is nothing any president could do to stop this.

A lot of truth here.

However, it should be paired with the fact that Obama runs his mouth a lot without backing it up which projects weakness (and consequently lessens the possibility of solving disputes diplomatically).

 

[Grand Vol]

Well it's more than that - I'd offer that part of how we got here and the range of our options are directly tied to the FP of the last 5 years. It's not about being a weak idiot - it's a critique of FP and discussion of the consequences.

Unfortunately, that was tried and called "idiotic" by some posters here.

Putin rightfully believes he is one of the big boys on the block in the geopolitical world right now. And has shown leadership throughout the world whether we agree with it or not.

 

[Velo Vol]

 

[Grand Vol]

I'm all for it. But its tough when we have posters here who make ridiculous statements about missile defense or making some sort of military move to signal anything more than that we don't like Russia getting aggressive.

People simply are ignoring the fact that they have ports there in Crimea, etc.

Now, if they invade the Ukraine then it gets much worse, I would agree with that.

Report: Russia demanding Ukrainian military leave Crimea - CNN.com

Russia sets deadlines for Ukrainian warships, forces to surrender in disputed Crimea region | Fox News

He said the Russians ordered the crew to surrender within the hour or face Russians storming and seizing the ships and crew.

Russia’s fleet also ordered Ukraine’s forces in the region to surrender by 5 a.m. local time Tuesday or face “a real assault,” according to a statement from a Navy commander.

And before you get wrapped up in the whole linguistic "storm vs assault" thing, the word assault can be translated into different meanings to include storm in Ukainian.

 

[Velo Vol]

Still waiting for anyone to list a single thing any president could do to stop this.

I supposed if Western leaders (including the president) had been engaged enough last year, and worked out a compromise that would have preventing the previous government from collapsing, that would have prevented the Russian peacekeeping operation.

But we didn't care enough about it at the time.

 

[volinbham]

I supposed if Western leaders (including the president) had been engaged enough last year, and worked out a compromise that would have preventing the previous government from collapsing, that would have prevented the Russian peacekeeping operation.

But we didn't care enough about it at the time.

Agreed.

 

[FLVOL69]

I supposed if Western leaders (including the president) had been engaged enough last year, and worked out a compromise that would have preventing the previous government from collapsing, that would have prevented the Russian peacekeeping operation.

But we didn't care enough about it at the time.

Too busy changing the rules and implementation of the unaffordable care act.

 

[CountVolcula]

Obama is not stupid

On the contrary, he has done everything in a calculated manner to weaken our country both militarily and economically

There is no doubt in my mind that he wants to cripple this country. Everything he has done up until now has done nothing to strengthen us. His self proclaimed greatest accomplishment is the ACA. Its a disaster. It's going to cause more companies to either lay-off or cut hours to make up costs.

Then he wants to up the minimum wage to $10.10 an hour. My wife works part time and that would increase her salary by $1.01 an hour, but she won't see it. They will get rid of her before they pay the difference. Most companies will cut labor to survive. Another job killer to add to the rest

Add the fact he now wants to shrink the military to lows not seen since before WWII. Add numerous failed foreign policy, alligning himself with failed political groups in Eygpt(muslim brotherhood) and many more empty threats to foreign dictatorships. Then he backs Ambassador Rodman on his escapades in North Korea.

Nothing he has done convinces me that he has growth of America as a priority

Now you have the Republican tongue waggers like Alexander, Christie, McCain, McDonnell, etc.. waiting to lick the scraps off of Obama's table.


Washington needs a rectal cleansing

 

[SergeantVol]

This isn't naked Russian aggression directed toward some distant country with resources the Russians would like to exploit. This is Round 723 of a battle that has been going on, in one form or another, for hundreds of years.

This is not comparable to Russian involvement in Cuba, or Afghanistan.

Excuses. Sounds like my 10 yr old. Well he was sort if right but the exact details weren't right so it makes him not right.

 

[FLVOL69]

Obama is not stupid

On the contrary, he has done everything in a calculated manner to weaken our country both militarily and economically

There is no doubt in my mind that he wants to cripple this country. Everything he has done up until now has done nothing to strengthen us. His self proclaimed greatest accomplishment is the ACA. Its a disaster. It's going to cause more companies to either lay-off or cut hours to make up costs.

Then he wants to up the minimum wage to $10.10 an hour. My wife works part time and that would increase her salary by $1.01 an hour, but she won't see it. They will get rid of her before they pay the difference. Most companies will cut labor to survive. Another job killer to add to the rest

Add the fact he now wants to shrink the military to lows not seen since before WWII. Add numerous failed foreign policy, alligning himself with failed political groups in Eygpt(muslim brotherhood) and many more empty threats to foreign dictatorships. Then he backs Ambassador Rodman on his escapades in North Korea.

Nothing he has done convinces me that he has growth of America as a priority

Now you have the Republican tongue waggers like Alexander, Christie, McCain, McDonnell, etc.. waiting to lick the scraps off of Obama's table.


Washington needs a rectal cleansing

Barry would love anything that involves the rectal area , well said Count !

 

[lawgator1]

Report: Russia demanding Ukrainian military leave Crimea - CNN.com

Russia sets deadlines for Ukrainian warships, forces to surrender in disputed Crimea region | Fox News



And before you get wrapped up in the whole linguistic "storm vs assault" thing, the word assault can be translated into different meanings to include storm in Ukainian.

An attack on the Ukraine changes the dynamic, dramatically.

I don't honestly know what we would do about it. I mean, I don't believe we have any sort of mutual defense arrangement with them and they aren't in NATO.

 

[Grand Vol]

Still waiting for anyone to list a single thing any president could do to stop this.

Still waiting ....

Again, we tried, but you won't allow the historical examples of what was happening to make the case.

When a leader is seen as weak, inept, incompetent or indecisive, it will, I repeat it WILL

IT WILL

Cause other nations around the world to take advantage of the power vacuum left behind by that leaders absence. Putin has again put himself on the world stage since our failures over the past five years have, repeat HAVE given him more than enough reason to know we wouldn't do anything.

So again, if we had been stronger, more skilled, more competent and showed quick decisive actions in our foreign affairs policies this might not be happening now. Now it very well might have, but Putin knew we couldn't and wouldn't react which gave him more than enough reason to move in. And have we done so far? This whole cancelling of the G-8 participation just reeks of a "I'm going to stomp my feet and hold my breath!" move by Obama in reaction to this. Which just gives Putin more of a reason to chuckle and sip his vodka while planing his next moves.

Face facts here and stop living in your delusional world. We have no clout in the international community to oppose these Russian moves because of our failure, I repeat our failure

OUR FAILURE

Over the past five years. Had we had a President with the balls that was up to the job of carrying the momentum of America's rightful place in the world this might not have been happening. But as Putin has continued to trump us at every turn and we did nothing, I repeat nothing

NOTHING

To oppose them or even be a key player in the international community. This is sadly the result of our own failed so called leaders who have shown themselves to be incompetent, inept, indecisive and weak time and time again.

 

[Grand Vol]

I supposed if Western leaders (including the president) had been engaged enough last year, and worked out a compromise that would have preventing the previous government from collapsing, that would have prevented the Russian peacekeeping operation.

But we didn't care enough about it at the time.

Agree with everything but the bolded. Which is more and more not looking like anything remotely peacekeeping.

 

[SergeantVol]

Again, we tried, but you won't allow the historical examples of what was happening to make the case.

When a leader is seen as weak, inept, incompetent or indecisive, it will, I repeat it WILL

IT WILL

Cause other nations around the world to take advantage of the power vacuum left behind by that leaders absence. Putin has again put himself on the world stage since our failures over the past five years have, repeat HAVE given him more than enough reason to know we wouldn't do anything.

So again, if we had been stronger, more skilled, more competent and showed quick decisive actions in our foreign affairs policies this might not be happening now. Now it very well might have, but Putin knew we couldn't and wouldn't react which gave him more than enough reason to move in. And have we done so far? This whole cancelling of the G-8 participation just reeks of a "I'm going to stomp my feet and hold my breath!" move by Obama in reaction to this. Which just gives Putin more of a reason to chuckle and sip his vodka while planing his next moves.

Face facts here and stop living in your delusional world. We have no clout in the international community to oppose these Russian moves because of our failure, I repeat our failure

OUR FAILURE

Over the past five years. Had we had a President with the balls that was up to the job of carrying the momentum of America's rightful place in the world this might not have been happening. But as Putin has continued to trump us at every turn and we did nothing, I repeat nothing

NOTHING

To oppose them or even be a key player in the international community. This is sadly the result of our own failed so called leaders who have shown themselves to be incompetent, inept, indecisive and weak time and time again.

Well said GV. It is a case and matter of 2nd and 3rd order effects in the arena of geopolitics. We have been a horrible player due to our leadership and are now suffering because of it.

 

[W.TN.Orange Blood]

Obama is not stupid

On the contrary, he has done everything in a calculated manner to weaken our country both militarily and economically

There is no doubt in my mind that he wants to cripple this country. Everything he has done up until now has done nothing to strengthen us. His self proclaimed greatest accomplishment is the ACA. Its a disaster. It's going to cause more companies to either lay-off or cut hours to make up costs.

Then he wants to up the minimum wage to $10.10 an hour. My wife works part time and that would increase her salary by $1.01 an hour, but she won't see it. They will get rid of her before they pay the difference. Most companies will cut labor to survive. Another job killer to add to the rest

Add the fact he now wants to shrink the military to lows not seen since before WWII. Add numerous failed foreign policy, alligning himself with failed political groups in Eygpt(muslim brotherhood) and many more empty threats to foreign dictatorships. Then he backs Ambassador Rodman on his escapades in North Korea.

Nothing he has done convinces me that he has growth of America as a priority

Now you have the Republican tongue waggers like Alexander, Christie, McCain, McDonnell, etc.. waiting to lick the scraps off of Obama's table.


Washington needs a rectal cleansing

And he still has an approval rating of 40% which just baffles the mind to understand why people back this idiot.

 

[Grand Vol]

Well said GV. It is a case and matter of 2nd and 3rd order effects in the arena of geopolitics. We have been a horrible player due to our leadership and are now suffering because of it.

When the Ukraine concedes territory (not if), I'm afraid of what else will happen in the next two years due to the sitting occupant in the White House. And how far our status as a world power will fall because the voters in this country were stupid enough to elect him not only once, but twice and continually allow themselves to "led" by career politicians that thinly veil their corruption and do little to represent the people and only want to continue their positions in power.

There's a tree that needs watering...

 

[FLVOL69]

And he still has an approval rating of 40% which just baffles the mind to understand why people back this idiot.

Those are the parasitic freeloading mooches.

 

[Obsessed]

15:42:
International security expert Ian Brzezinski says a deployment of Nato's rapid response force is among four options Nato should consider in order to bolster Ukrainian security, in this piece for the alliance's governing body, the North Atlantic Council. Such a deployment could include sending Nato ships to the Black Sea.

 

[davethevol]

When the Ukraine concedes territory (not if), I'm afraid of what else will happen in the next two years due to the sitting occupant in the White House. And how far our status as a world power will fall because the voters in this country were stupid enough to elect him not only once, but twice and continually allow themselves to "led" by career politicians that thinly veil their corruption and do little to represent the people and only want to continue their positions in power.

There's a tree that needs watering...

China is what scares me. They are watching this very closely and I wouldn't be surprised if they make some major moves soon. This is almost becoming a perfect storm scenario for those that detest the US and they may never have an opportunity like this again to further their grabs for power.

 

[lawgator1]

The assumption you are making is that if Obama (or some other POTUS) were "stronger" in the past it would cause Putin to worry that he could not get away with this.

That is flatly untrue. No president, no matter how tough in the past, could make a credible warning or even threat that would avoid what has occurred in Crimea.