Ukraine Protests

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#776
#776
Velo Vol said:
Posting that Obama is a weak idiot five times a day isn't a discussion of anything.
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Well it's more than that - I'd offer that part of how we got here and the range of our options are directly tied to the FP of the last 5 years. It's not about being a weak idiot - it's a critique of FP and discussion of the consequences.
 
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#777
#777
FLVOL69 said:
He can't do shiite ok? The point which keeps sailing over your head is that if we had a real leader in office odds are we wouldn't be having this conversation. We are perceived as a weak ass country and rightfully so. Putin is a bully and should be treated accordingly .
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Nothing any president could do to deal with this situation. Its been going on for centuries. Stop pretending that we invited this.
 
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#778
#778
volinbham said:
1. Making public comments about our determination and policy here. Instead he has Kerry do so. Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton and Bush 2 all were much more visible in these type situations. Obama is no where and others do the talking for him.

In addition we should be more visibly and actively involved with Europe about a unified front of policy in response. Instead we have the same old "we're right behind you" approach.
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The problem is that unless the EU wants to impose tough economic sanctions here, and risk having their gas cut off, we have almost no leverage against Russia.

In that case, the less said, the better.

The mistake Obama made in Syria was talking tougher than he could ultimately act out. He's a lot closer to making that mistake again that erring on the side of saying too little.
 
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#779
#779
volinbham said:
Your first comment makes little sense. Obama certainly could have spoken about Russia in the same way as Romney. At a minimum he could have not laughed at the suggestion made by Romney and made some references to Romney living in the 80s. Bottomline Obama has downplayed Russia ever since the ridiculous "reset button" incident with Hillary. Putin has had the upper hand ever since.

To your question - part of the problem is that much of the damage is done. Both Russia and Europe have learned that we (under Obama) are not going to exercise leadership. Another lead from behind situation. Given that Obama should be out

1. Making public comments about our determination and policy here. Instead he has Kerry do so. Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton and Bush 2 all were much more visible in these type situations. Obama is no where and others do the talking for him.

In addition we should be more visibly and actively involved with Europe about a unified front of policy in response. Instead we have the same old "we're right behind you" approach.

2. Will it make a difference? Probably too late. Both Russia and our allies have seen 5 years of the Obama Doctrine and at this point they'd probably just shrug it off. However, perhaps it may sow some seeds to rebuild some power for future conflicts.

3. Our interests are served by being a strong voice for and organizing force for stability on the continent and detering Putin's power grab. We can be much stronger in leadership without military force but this administration has been astounding weak in FP and the world has noticed and reacted to that weakness.
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A "strong voice" is going to make a difference?

GTFO
 
#780
#780
BREAKING NEWS

Russia's Black Sea Fleet has given Ukrainian forces in Crimea until 5:00 local time (03:00 GMT) on Tuesday to surrender or face an all-out assault, according to Ukrainian defence ministry sources quoted by Interfax-Ukraine news agency. "If by 5am tomorrow morning they do not surrender a real assault will begin on units and sections of the Ukrainian armed forces all over Crimea," defence ministry officials are quoted as saying. So far there is no further confirmation of the ultimatum from other sources.


Looks like it's going to get real.
 
#781
#781
lawgator1 said:
Nothing any president could do to deal with this situation. Its been going on for centuries. Stop pretending that we invited this.
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Why on earth then are we trying? Why is the WH commenting at all if we are completely barred from having an impact on the situation?
 
#782
#782
volinbham said:
Well it's more than that - I'd offer that part of how we got here and the range of our options are directly tied to the FP of the last 5 years. It's not about being a weak idiot - it's a critique of FP and discussion of the consequences.
Click to expand...


There is nothing any president could do about this situation. And there is nothing any president could have done beforehand to make it any less likely.
 
#784
#784
volinbham said:
Why on earth then are we trying? Why is the WH commenting at all if we are completely barred from having an impact on the situation?
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Because they cannot sit idly by while it occurs. Oh, we'll do something about the G8 conference, uninvite ourselves for example.

But you are absolutely delusional if you think that there is anything else that can, or should be, done.
 
#785
#785
Velo Vol said:
The problem is that unless the EU wants to impose tough economic sanctions here, and risk having their gas cut off, we have almost no leverage against Russia.

In that case, the less said, the better.

The mistake Obama made in Syria was talking tougher than he could ultimately act out. He's a lot closer to making that mistake again that erring on the side of saying too little.
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I agree - see, we can discuss Obama in the context of this situation and it actually is real discussion.
 
#787
#787
volinbham said:
I agree - see, we can discuss Obama in the context of this situation and it actually is real discussion.
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I'm all for it. But its tough when we have posters here who make ridiculous statements about missile defense or making some sort of military move to signal anything more than that we don't like Russia getting aggressive.

People simply are ignoring the fact that they have ports there in Crimea, etc.

Now, if they invade the Ukraine then it gets much worse, I would agree with that.
 
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#788
#788
lawgator1 said:
I'm all for it. But its tough when we have posters here who make ridiculous statements about missile defense or making some sort of military move to signal anything more than that we don't like Russia getting aggressive.

People simply are ignoring the fact that they have ports there in Crimea, etc.

Now, if they invade the Ukraine then it gets much worse, I would agree with that.
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It's going to get worse. Russia is going to invade
 
#789
#789
lawgator1 said:
A "strong voice" is going to make a difference?

GTFO
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"Tell Vladimir I will have more flexibility after the election." - Barack Hussein Obama



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#790
#790
lawgator1 said:
Because they cannot sit idly by while it occurs. Oh, we'll do something about the G8 conference, uninvite ourselves for example.

But you are absolutely delusional if you think that there is anything else that can, or should be, done.
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So we are taking actions that will have zero impact and you are recommending that?

Why the hell do we even have people involved if all we can do is not go to G8? Why is Kerry blustering constantly? Is it all for show since we can't just sit there and do nothing?

If our FP is to say things that will have no impact because we can't just stay quiet then things are worse than I thought.
 
#791
#791
lawgator1 said:
I'm all for it. But its tough when we have posters here who make ridiculous statements about missile defense or making some sort of military move to signal anything more than that we don't like Russia getting aggressive.

People simply are ignoring the fact that they have ports there in Crimea, etc.

Now, if they invade the Ukraine then it gets much worse, I would agree with that.
Click to expand...

I believe it is 100% correct to suggest that Putin's actions are calculated given what he perceives to be our likely reaction (based on what he's seen so far).

To suggest otherwise simply doesn't reflect reality.
 
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#795
#795
lawgator1 said:
There is nothing any president could do about this situation. And there is nothing any president could have done beforehand to make it any less likely.
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Wrong Nancy.

If Obama wasn't viewed as a week and unprepared leader his threats just might be taken seriously. For over 5 years now he has looked week and unprepared so no one takes him seriously.
 
#796
#796
volinbham said:
I believe it is 100% correct to suggest that Putin's actions are calculated given what he perceives to be our likely reaction (based on what he's seen so far).

To suggest otherwise simply doesn't reflect reality.
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Ok, so what different would a President Romney do that would result in a different calculation by Putin?

Answer: Absolutely nothing.
 
#797
#797
lawgator1 said:
Because they cannot sit idly by while it occurs. Oh, we'll do something about the G8 conference, uninvite ourselves for example.

But you are absolutely delusional if you think that there is anything else that can, or should be, done.
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At this moment, no you are correct. Short of war there is nothing that the US can do. Putin knew this and that is why he felt free to take advantage of the situation.
 
#798
#798
lawgator1 said:
Ok, so what different would a President Romney do that would result in a different calculation by Putin?

Answer: Absolutely nothing.
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It's amusing to me that you view Obama as such a victim of circumstance. He CONTROLS the largest power machine in the world. Yet you hold him accountable for nothing.

On the other hand, Bush was a mastermind who is still to blame for the circumstances Obama finds himself in.

Democrats like you are complete morons.

140226141903-obamacare-surcharge-620xa.jpg
 
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