Ukraine Protests

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#10,376
#10,376
volprof said:
If the Japanese had been smart, that's what they should have done. I guess they were wanting to try out their world class navy though.
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they had crushed the French and British, proving the supremacy of the aircraft carrier. if they had waited a month after Barbarossa they could easily have seized significant land gains.
 
#10,377
#10,377
Japanese were skittish after this debale:

Battles of Khalkhin Gol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Zhukov cut his war teeth on this as well. Stalin thought M-R Pact would secure peace after the Japanese were neutralized as well. As much as the Japanese got angry with Hitler over M-R, they could not expect Hitler to count on Japan to do anything since they botched this and pledged to do nothing further.
 
#10,378
#10,378
volprof said:
Communists. Red Panic. Only slightly less bastardous than Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan. Churchill hated them. Etc.
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It took a full-scale attack to drag us into the war as it was.

volprof said:
Did you guys realize we still haven't (apparently) run out of the Purple Heart medals we made in anticipation of that invasion?
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No, I did not.
 
#10,379
#10,379
CSpindizzy said:
When you write the history books and teach the kids you can say whatever you want about when wars started, how, who did what, etc. The fact that Russian "history" intentionally ignores M-R as well as the thousands that died and the tens of thousands they dragged to the Far East prior to June 22, 1941 shows some pretty shoddy efforts at revisionism.

Let's see where Vlad stands on this subject:



I guess he missed his own nation's collaboration with the Nazis in carving up a nation and stealing a few others.
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With that said, how many nations has the US carved up in the last 25 years?

The Soviet Union was dissolved in 1991. I'm not advocating atrocities or invasions at the hands of communism, but let's stay in the present day at least.

Comparing Putins actions with that of Hitler or Stalin in ridiculous.
 
#10,380
#10,380
Pacer92 said:
With that said, how many nations has the US carved up in the last 25 years?

The Soviet Union was dissolved in 1991. I'm not advocating atrocities or invasions at the hands of communism, but let's stay in the present day at least.

Comparing Putins actions with that of Hitler or Stalin in ridiculous.
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Here we go with the "well what about the US?" I'm not here to champion the US's foreign policy history. I've said that before. So right out the gate you've wasted your breath.

You do realize the conversation has to do with the commemoration of the end of WWII right? You do realize the conversation revolved around Putin's own words attacking people in the West for revisionism when he himself conveniently overlooked his own nation's history. The USSR may have officially dissolved but your buddy Putin equates events then with Russia now. So breaking news, YOUR guy is the one linking the past to the present. You need to take up your argument with your comrade in the Kremlin. Speaking to that point, still silent on his recent admissions to invasion of neighbors in land grab actions and lying about it like Stalin? Seem to recall Stalin justifying invasion of the Baltics and Poland with the logic of it being for the good of the people as well. Shortly after the invasion there were sham elections to make the invasion "legit" as well. So yes, if we want to look at facts, Stalin and Putin do have some land grabbing and lying about it tendencies. Anything else?
 
#10,381
#10,381
Pacer92 said:
With that said, how many nations has the US carved up in the last 25 years?

The Soviet Union was dissolved in 1991. I'm not advocating atrocities or invasions at the hands of communism, but let's stay in the present day at least.

Comparing Putins actions with that of Hitler or Stalin in ridiculous.
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When did we crave up "nations"?
 
#10,383
#10,383
Pacer92 said:
Would regime change be a better word?

Iraq
Afghanistan
Libya
Haiti
Bosnia
Kosovo
Syria
Ukraine

And "craving" change in Iran, Brazil, China, Russia and Venezuela
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Seems to me that if we are successful in the "craving" category you mention the world will be a better place. Brazil? Eh, who really cares. But Brazilians might not mind too much. I hear they're getting pretty tired of having money stolen from them and getting their neighborhoods razed for another disastrous world spectacle event.
 
#10,384
#10,384
Looks like Vlad the Peaceful decided to station Iskanders in Kaliningrad. Backfires going to Crimea. Time to park the missile shields in the Baltics and Poland. It would only make sense to balance a nuclear theater with defensive tools. Vlad actually handed Obama an easy defensive move. Now we will see if Obama chooses to take that move.
 
#10,385
#10,385
This is my first post in this thread, I believe.
I am glad Putin isn't dead. Not a fan, but it beats the hell out of the power vaccum alternative.
 
#10,386
#10,386
Pacer92 said:
Would regime change be a better word?

Iraq
Afghanistan
Libya
Haiti
Bosnia
Kosovo
Syria
Ukraine

And "craving" change in Iran, Brazil, China, Russia and Venezuela
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When caused the collapse of Yugoslavia? News to me, seems the various nationalist ethnic groups wanted independence from Belgrade. Syria is still under Assad control.
 
#10,387
#10,387
Yeah, Yugoslavia cannot exactly be credited to the US. I know the Kremlin loves throwing that on us because once again we weren't exactly chummy with their pet Milosevic. Haiti? Yeah. That is always our charity case. That's more a local humanitarian mission more than anything. Not exactly how WE are carving up Ukraine. Last I checked Russia had that one covered.
 
#10,388
#10,388
Pacer92 said:
With that said, how many nations has the US carved up in the last 25 years?

The Soviet Union was dissolved in 1991. I'm not advocating atrocities or invasions at the hands of communism, but let's stay in the present day at least.

Comparing Putins actions with that of Hitler or Stalin in ridiculous.
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We have not taken territory from another country to annex as US territory in the last 25 years.
 
#10,390
#10,390
apevol said:
This is my first post in this thread, I believe.
I am glad Putin isn't dead. Not a fan, but it beats the hell out of the power vaccum alternative.
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Post more often.

I'm on record that Russia after Putin scares me more than Russia during Putin, particularly since he has established what is becoming an increasingly aggressive nationalist precedent for its post-Cold War leadership and governance.

Add that to the potential power vacuum you mention, declining ethnic Russian population (but growing Russian Muslim one), declining economy, declining international role/influence, and an f'ing huge, increasingly modernized military, and you've got a recipe for bad things.
 
#10,391
#10,391
Pacer92 said:
With that said, how many nations has the US carved up in the last 25 years?

The Soviet Union was dissolved in 1991. I'm not advocating atrocities or invasions at the hands of communism, but let's stay in the present day at least.

Comparing Putins actions with that of Hitler or Stalin in ridiculous.
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.
 
#10,393
#10,393
Pacer92 said:
Interpret it the way you want, exploit it for all you can.

Everybody knows what I meant...
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You're right. We know. And to his point, when has the US invaded another country and integrated the land into its borders in faux elections? When has Russia? And comparing to the USSR who is closer?
 
#10,394
#10,394
volprof said:
Post more often.

I'm on record that Russia after Putin scares me more than Russia during Putin, particularly since he has established what is becoming an increasingly aggressive nationalist precedent for its post-Cold War leadership and governance.



Add that to the potential power vacuum you mention, declining ethnic Russian population (but growing Russian Muslim one), declining economy, declining international role/influence, and an f'ing huge, increasingly modernized military, and you've got a recipe for bad things.
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IMO most of his posturing is done to stay in power in Russia. He isn't anywhere near the fruitcake his potential successors are.
 
#10,395
#10,395
CSpindizzy said:
You're right. We know. And to his point, when has the US invaded another country and integrated the land into its borders in faux elections? When has Russia? And comparing to the USSR who is closer?
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Nobody said anything about borders, which speaks volumes in itself....we are talking about numerous military conflicts to change regimes.
 
#10,396
#10,396
Pacer92 said:
Nobody said anything about borders, which speaks volumes in itself....we are talking about numerous military conflicts to change regimes.
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Weren't we comparing Stalin to Putin? You keep saying live in the present and I give present day examples. We can even go back 25 years. Give me an example of the US pulling off a "Crimea" in the past 25 years? Our land grabbing days were last century. Vlad seems to be lost in that century - from invasions for lebensraum to wanting to relive the glory days of Stalin and the USSR.
 
#10,398
#10,398
CSpindizzy said:
Weren't we comparing Stalin to Putin? You keep saying live in the present and I give present day examples. We can even go back 25 years. Give me an example of the US pulling off a "Crimea" in the past 25 years? Our land grabbing days were last century. Vlad seems to be lost in that century - from invasions for lebensraum to wanting to relive the glory days of Stalin and the USSR.
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Let's not be naive! Had Putin not secured the Crimea, there would be a congregation of US/NATO influence on the peninsula..
 
#10,400
#10,400
Pacer92 said:
Let's not be naive! Had Putin not secured the Crimea, there would be a congregation of US/NATO influence on the peninsula..
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Really? Because it takes years if not decades to secure NATO membership. Meanwhile the Russians would still have basing rights due to the contract.
 
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