Ukraine Protests

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#9,053
#9,053
Pacer92 said:
It's just another example of MSM spreading the Russian hate in any shape, form or fashion...
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It's all a plot. At the weekly MSM club meeting, a bunch of reporters who probably don't even know where Russia is on a map plot in a cabal to destroy Russia in any way possible. All of the American media joins with European media to devise a sinister plot to smear Russia.

While this "plot" sounds good on RT and all the state owned media in Russia, it is insane to the rest of the world.

Pacer - have you ever been to Russia?
 
#9,055
#9,055
In more smearing of Russia....

Something RT and Sputnik love to show when it happens in the US but you don't seem to see it when it happens in Moscow...

Fascist thugs beat up a supporter of Ukraine and then go after a shopkeeper. The fascists were joined by Chechen Muslims (same ones that come here to blow up marathons). In a later explanation one of the Russians said the cause was the guy yelled "glory to Ukraine". Worthy of dragging people out into the streets and beating them up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBl8Oolhq1g&feature=youtu.be
 
#9,056
#9,056
CSpindizzy said:
It's all a plot. At the weekly MSM club meeting, a bunch of reporters who probably don't even know where Russia is on a map plot in a cabal to destroy Russia in any way possible. All of the American media joins with European media to devise a sinister plot to smear Russia.

While this "plot" sounds good on RT and all the state owned media in Russia, it is insane to the rest of the world.

Pacer - have you ever been to Russia?
Click to expand...

No, I haven't.

Is that a prerequisite to know that MSM slams Russia at every opportunity?!
 
#9,057
#9,057
Chinese diplomat tells West to consider Russia's security concerns over Ukraine | Reuters

"The West should abandon the zero-sum mentality, and take the real security concerns of Russia into consideration," Qu was quoted as saying.

His comments were an unusually public show of understanding from China for the Russian position. China and Russia see eye-to-eye on many international diplomatic issues but Beijing has generally not been so willing to back Russia over Ukraine.

China has also been cautious not to be drawn into the struggle between Russia and the West over Ukraine's future, not wanting to alienate a key ally.

It has said it would like to continue to develop "friendly cooperation" with Ukraine, and respects the ex-Soviet state's independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity.
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#9,058
#9,058
Pacer92 said:
No, I haven't.

Is that a prerequisite to know that MSM slams Russia on every opportunity?!
Click to expand...

No. Just curious as to you defending Russia and placing great trust in THEIR media without even understanding what their media is. Your defense of something you do not understand as well as a nation you have not been to is my point. You've argued against me saying my MSM defense. I've repeated my argument is not based on any media Russian or Western. My attitude of Ukraine is from being there for years. My attitude towards Russia, directed solely at Putin's regime, is based on being there and seeing firsthand.

I care less about your incessant ranting on the MSM. I just question your own credibility in defending a regime far worse than the one you despise. Despite what Russian media likes to portray there is no Western media cabal. There is no MSM as some unified entity directed to smear Russia. In Russia on the other hand, there IS a unified government owned, Putin steered media smearing the US and the West every chance they can get. You only have to watch RT or look at Sputnik to see this. What you hate here is actually taking place there in Russia. The "smear" is actually constant there. For the most part, media here in the US cares less about Russia. You get a periodic reference based on some event occurring over there and it is brief in nature. Russia on the other hand has entire segments running throughout the day on "smearing" the US.

Here is a cultural difference thanks to Russian MSM crafting Putin's message. If you attack Putin, it is considered an attack on Russia. If here in the US you attack Obama, a large portion of the population will join you. It is a fascist, statist mindset that shows just on this alone the leader, the media, and the nation are one. Like I've said before, there is no "MSM" in Russia. There is state run media and very few instances of independent thought - the few that are left shrink daily from closing, arrests, seizures, etc.

Going a little further in my questions for you - what are your politics? What are your leanings and beliefs? It's hard for me to discern since you've given out hints that are really all over the map. Help me understand.
 
#9,061
#9,061
CSpindizzy said:
Here is a cultural difference thanks to Russian MSM crafting Putin's message. If you attack Putin, it is considered an attack on Russia. If here in the US you attack Obama, a large portion of the population will join you. It is a fascist, statist mindset that shows just on this alone the leader, the media, and the nation are one. Like I've said before, there is no "MSM" in Russia. There is state run media and very few instances of independent thought - the few that are left shrink daily from closing, arrests, seizures, etc.
Click to expand...
this
 
#9,062
#9,062
Velo Vol said:
Chinese diplomat tells West to consider Russia's security concerns over Ukraine | Reuters
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Well considering the initial security concerns where based off of Budapest, the first notion is the territorial sovereignty of Ukraine. Russia just threw that out the door with Crimea and now what it does in the east. Second was the fact that there are no nukes. Add several CFE agreements that the US actively enforced on restricting size of military of Ukraine. Ukraine posed no threat - as we clearly see now.

Fast forward to Yanukovich. You had a pro-Russian leader that had he kept his promise would have overseen a PARTNERSHIP with the EU. This process would involve a 5-10 year period IF Ukraine was to actually join the EU. This was not a move to join the EU - that had to be approved by the EU members as well as a Ukrainian referendum to approve the final move.

Up to Yanukovich changing his mind we had a weak military nation and one that had years before joining the EU. If Viktor kept his promise they would have opened new western markets and worked to strengthen their economy. If there were hardships, Viktor could have pulled the plug.

If Viktor kept his promise there would be no NATO, maybe EU but with the option of backing out, no war, territorial integrity, etc. One simple promise to uphold constitutional reform and EU partnership and the region would be a different place. He would have had popularity with the people.

But we are now on a discussion about Russia's hurt feelings and their "interests" as if Ukraine was some stray dog to debate on whether to tame or put down. Amazing how the discussion went from revolving around the interests of Ukraine to interests of Russia with Ukraine being the doormat.
 
#9,064
#9,064
Long but good article pointing out a lot of things.

Putin has mastered the art of destroying any opposition. He has used endless tools to his credit. Most have been trumped up charges to arrest or deport many who oppose him (we're talking political rivals mind you). He's seized the assets of many. He's imprisoned family members with trumped up charges. The frenzied Duma has even banned many opposition parties.

But his latest move - drive such a hatred of America and wrap everything American around one person - Obama - and then connect him to the opposition. Putin has crafted this whole coup, American puppet, 'just like Ukraine', etc. narrative that his closest political rivals are now being connected to Obama and saying the 'evil' of what happened in Ukraine will happen to Russia if any Russian supports Navalny, Nemtsov, etc. These guys have NO connection to Obama or America but thanks to Putin's crafting of propaganda (and with full media control how can you counter this?) his closest political threats are neutralized. And with full control of both the Duma and the media, he prevents countermoves and can change laws to ensure he remains in office. Devious.

Why Moscow's anti-Maidan protesters are putting on elaborate pretence | World news | The Guardian
 
#9,065
#9,065
CSpindizzy said:
But we are now on a discussion about Russia's hurt feelings and their "interests" as if Ukraine was some stray dog to debate on whether to tame or put down. Amazing how the discussion went from revolving around the interests of Ukraine to interests of Russia with Ukraine being the doormat.
Click to expand...

OK, but what really interested me there is what China is saying about the situation, not a debate being held elsewhere.
 
#9,067
#9,067
Pacer92 said:
It's just another example of MSM spreading the Russian hate in any shape, form or fashion...
Click to expand...

How come RT and other Russian news sources can constantly lambast the US for racism and police brutality, but we can't do the same with Russia? It needs to be called out for its BS, otherwise people will continue to be discriminated against there too.
 
#9,068
#9,068
Velo Vol said:
No idea about the World Cup, but I don't know why the Summer Olympics are going to Brazil.
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That's another dumb idea. The World Cup being there wasn't so bad, because that spreads the entire country and Brazil is kind of weird during our summer - a third of it is cool, another third is average temp, and the other third is hot as hell.

Rio, however, will be hot and humid.
 
#9,070
#9,070
For the Putin apologists here - and pardon for not wanting to look through 9K posts to verify - but did any of you claim NATO promised not to expand? I know that is the Kremlin narrative to excuse their illegal seizure of Crimea. Just curious if that was discussed here.
 
#9,071
#9,071
CSpindizzy said:
In more smearing of Russia....

Something RT and Sputnik love to show when it happens in the US but you don't seem to see it when it happens in Moscow...

Fascist thugs beat up a supporter of Ukraine and then go after a shopkeeper. The fascists were joined by Chechen Muslims (same ones that come here to blow up marathons). In a later explanation one of the Russians said the cause was the guy yelled "glory to Ukraine". Worthy of dragging people out into the streets and beating them up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBl8Oolhq1g&feature=youtu.be
Click to expand...

For a country that prides itself as being the world's frontline and official defender against fascism, Russia sure does seem to have a lot of them. Of course, when the guy sitting in the Kremlin is one, I guess it's advisable to just follow the leader.
 
#9,072
#9,072
#9,074
#9,074
CSpindizzy said:
No. Just curious as to you defending Russia and placing great trust in THEIR media without even understanding what their media is. Your defense of something you do not understand as well as a nation you have not been to is my point. You've argued against me saying my MSM defense. I've repeated my argument is not based on any media Russian or Western. My attitude of Ukraine is from being there for years. My attitude towards Russia, directed solely at Putin's regime, is based on being there and seeing firsthand.

I care less about your incessant ranting on the MSM. I just question your own credibility in defending a regime far worse than the one you despise. Despite what Russian media likes to portray there is no Western media cabal. There is no MSM as some unified entity directed to smear Russia. In Russia on the other hand, there IS a unified government owned, Putin steered media smearing the US and the West every chance they can get. You only have to watch RT or look at Sputnik to see this. What you hate here is actually taking place there in Russia. The "smear" is actually constant there. For the most part, media here in the US cares less about Russia. You get a periodic reference based on some event occurring over there and it is brief in nature. Russia on the other hand has entire segments running throughout the day on "smearing" the US.

Here is a cultural difference thanks to Russian MSM crafting Putin's message. If you attack Putin, it is considered an attack on Russia. If here in the US you attack Obama, a large portion of the population will join you. It is a fascist, statist mindset that shows just on this alone the leader, the media, and the nation are one. Like I've said before, there is no "MSM" in Russia. There is state run media and very few instances of independent thought - the few that are left shrink daily from closing, arrests, seizures, etc.

Going a little further in my questions for you - what are your politics? What are your leanings and beliefs? It's hard for me to discern since you've given out hints that are really all over the map. Help me understand.
Click to expand...

Fascism.

Hey, dizzy, where all have you been in Russia? I know you've mentioned the Caucasus, but more specifically?
 
#9,075
#9,075
CSpindizzy said:
For the Putin apologists here - and pardon for not wanting to look through 9K posts to verify - but did any of you claim NATO promised not to expand? I know that is the Kremlin narrative to excuse their illegal seizure of Crimea. Just curious if that was discussed here.
Click to expand...

It was discussed very early on but there was never any official proof.
 
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