Ukraine Protests

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#6,781
#6,781
Pacer92 said:
That's the point. Ukraine had a problem with it until we forced change...
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No, one person, specifically the deposed President, has a problem with it and the Ukrainian People took matters into their own hands.

You give the CIA far more credit than you realize.
 
#6,782
#6,782
Grand Vol said:
No, one person, specifically the deposed President, has a problem with it and the Ukrainian People took matters into their own hands.

You give the CIA far more credit than you realize.
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When the Ukrainians violate the Ukrainian constitution and overthrow Yanukovich, its Ukrainians taking matters into their own hands.

When ethnic Russians in Crimea did the same, there seems to be an issue...
 
#6,783
#6,783
red butler said:
I'm curious. Is anyone having at least a little trouble reconciling their world view after Obama's admission that the US overthrew the Ukraine? Or did everyone just double-down on their current world view?
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I would really like to see a link on this. Nothing recent came up in a quick search.
 
#6,784
#6,784
Rasputin_Vol said:
When the Ukrainians violate the Ukrainian constitution and overthrow Yanukovich, its Ukrainians taking matters into their own hands.

When ethnic Russians in Crimea did the same, there seems to be an issue...
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Except it was Russians overthrowing the government, running pro-ukranians out and then hosting a 'vote/referendum' which didn't follow the constitutional ways for Crimea to leave Ukraine. But yeah except for those major things it is exactly the same.
 
#6,785
#6,785
Rasputin_Vol said:
When the Ukrainians violate the Ukrainian constitution and overthrow Yanukovich, its Ukrainians taking matters into their own hands.

When ethnic Russians in Crimea did the same, there seems to be an issue...
Click to expand...

You keep going in circles. Truth is, you have no argument except US/EU = Bad and Russia = Good.
 
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#6,786
#6,786
LouderVol said:
I would really like to see a link on this. Nothing recent came up in a quick search.
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He's referring to Obama's statement in a recent interview that the US had brokered a deal for the peaceful transition of power. RT of course used it as a "A-ha, gotcha!" admission of a US-led coup, but I didn't take his statement that way at all.
 
#6,788
#6,788
volprof said:
He's referring to Obama's statement in a recent interview that the US had brokered a deal for the peaceful transition of power. RT of course used it as a "A-ha, gotcha!" admission of a US-led coup, but I didn't take his statement that way at all.
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Nailed it lol
 
#6,789
#6,789
Grand Vol said:
Nailed it lol
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Did you even hear what he said? He clearly stated that Yanukovich fled AFTER the US and the Ukrainian opposition had brokered a deal, meaning that they had alread decided who was going to be running the country while Yanukovich was still in power.

And Obama said nothing about a "peaceful transition of power" like that gibroni volprof said.
 
#6,790
#6,790
Grand Vol said:
You keep going in circles. Truth is, you have no argument except US/EU = Bad and Russia = Good.
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If the US would lie about unemployment rates and inflation to put a positive spin on the economy, what makes you think they wouldn't lie about the situation in Ukraine to put a positive spin on that?
 
#6,791
#6,791
Rasputin_Vol said:
Did you even hear what he said? He clearly stated that Yanukovich fled AFTER the US and the Ukrainian opposition had brokered a deal, meaning that they had alread decided who was going to be running the country while Yanukovich was still in power.

And Obama said nothing about a "peaceful transition of power" like that gibroni volprof said.
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Obama takes credit for a lot of crap. I'm not sure at this point if he's really the reliable figure you want to base your conspiracy theory on.

And brokered the deal has a lot of different meanings. it can be past tense or present or even future. Brokering the deal only means the US brought something to the table. But of course it was the CIA and Obama who masterminded the whole operation. Can't mean anything else.
 
#6,792
#6,792
Rasputin_Vol said:
If the US would lie about unemployment rates and inflation to put a positive spin on the economy, what makes you think they wouldn't lie about the situation in Ukraine to put a positive spin on that?
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See above. Obama is a wonderful liar when the facts make him look better. And he took a shot in the jaw when Putin occupied Crimea and dared him to do anything about it.

He's been one-upped at every turn by Putin. And you can't see he just might try to put a positive spin on something that showed his ignorance and lack of leadership in the world?
 
#6,793
#6,793
volprof said:
He's referring to Obama's statement in a recent interview that the US had brokered a deal for the peaceful transition of power. RT of course used it as a "A-ha, gotcha!" admission of a US-led coup, but I didn't take his statement that way at all.
Click to expand...

Ok look at the quote in context. First, all the evidence points to US involvement. Second, the US doesn't negotiate transition of power for every protest around the world (remember the f*** what the EU thinks phone call), and third he states that Putin didn't have a grand strategy and was merely reacting to events that unfolded (which destroys the theories on here that Russia was behind it).
 
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#6,794
#6,794
red butler said:
Ok look at the quote in context. First, all the evidence points to US involvement. Second, the US doesn't negotiate transition of power for every protest around the world (remember the f*** what the EU thinks phone call), and third he states that Putin didn't have a grand strategy and was merely reacting to events that unfolded (which destroys the theories on here that Russia was behind it).
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And again, you take Obama's word for everything he says?
 
#6,795
#6,795
Grand Vol said:
And brokered the deal has a lot of different meanings. it can be past tense or present or even future. Brokering the deal only means the US brought something to the table. But of course it was the CIA and Obama who masterminded the whole operation. Can't mean anything else.
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OK, lets run with the idea that brokering a deal can mean a lot of different things... fine.

If you are going to broker a deal like this, where the discussion is about establishing a new govt while the present govt is still in power, think about how long that would take? Think about the amount of trust you would have to have in the guys on the other side of the table. If you are the Ukraine opposition, you would have had to built up enough of a relationship over a significant amount of time that you can trust the US as you essentially make seditious plans in the Ukraine... essentially putting your life in their hands. Likewise, if you are the US, you would have to build an equal amount trust with the Ukrainian opposition in order for your plans to not reach The Kremlin and create an international firestorm.

So this wasn't something that could have been scratched out on bar napkins over a few glasses of beer. There had to be a significant amount of planning involved with this.

Would you at least agree with this assumption?
 
#6,796
#6,796
Grand Vol said:
Obama takes credit for a lot of crap. I'm not sure at this point if he's really the reliable figure you want to base your conspiracy theory on.

And brokered the deal has a lot of different meanings. it can be past tense or present or even future. Brokering the deal only means the US brought something to the table. But of course it was the CIA and Obama who masterminded the whole operation. Can't mean anything else.
Click to expand...

If you would take off the red, white and blue glasses long enough you will see that evidence points directly at US interference.

Even the POTUS admitting as much is not enough for some of you guys....what's it going to take?
 
#6,797
#6,797
Grand Vol said:
And again, you take Obama's word for everything he says?
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What other side or angle to the story is there? You either have the Obama/State Department story or the narrative given by The Kremlin and Russia Today, which was corroborated and confirmed by Obama himself.

Seems like both sides are now telling the same story.
 
#6,798
#6,798
Pacer92 said:
If you would take off the red, white and blue glasses long enough you will see that evidence points directly at US interference.

Even the POTUS admitting as much is not enough for some of you guys....what's it going to take?
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If you would take off your hammer and sickle glasses long enough to see nobody was trying to encircle Russia...

Obama has lied about plenty in the past. Why all of the sudden should I take him at his word for it?
 
#6,799
#6,799
Rasputin_Vol said:
OK, lets run with the idea that brokering a deal can mean a lot of different things... fine.

If you are going to broker a deal like this, where the discussion is about establishing a new govt while the present govt is still in power, think about how long that would take? Think about the amount of trust you would have to have in the guys on the other side of the table. If you are the Ukraine opposition, you would have had to built up enough of a relationship over a significant amount of time that you can trust the US as you essentially make seditious plans in the Ukraine... essentially putting your life in their hands. Likewise, if you are the US, you would have to build an equal amount trust with the Ukrainian opposition in order for your plans to not reach The Kremlin and create an international firestorm.

So this wasn't something that could have been scratched out on bar napkins over a few glasses of beer. There had to be a significant amount of planning involved with this.

Would you at least agree with this assumption?
Click to expand...

Yes and no. I'll explain later.
 
#6,800
#6,800
Rasputin_Vol said:
Did you even hear what he said? He clearly stated that Yanukovich fled AFTER the US and the Ukrainian opposition had brokered a deal, meaning that they had alread decided who was going to be running the country while Yanukovich was still in power.

And Obama said nothing about a "peaceful transition of power" like that gibroni volprof said.
Click to expand...

Atta' boy, Ras!
 
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