Ukraine Protests

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#6,276
#6,276
agent|orange said:
Something tells me they haven't seen 9th Company.

The 9th Company - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's actually a pretty decent flick about Soviet involvement in Afghanistan. Nor seen some of the ... disturbing videos about Chechens and Russians. Be very careful looking up anything about that.

But with that said, RT is rife with astroturfing I alluded to earlier. It's convincing RT readers that the West is weak and effeminate and Russia is stronk.
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Thanks, I didn't know about this film. I may try to find it sometime. Always love a good military flick, and it's always interesting to see things from a foreign perspective.

Oh, I'm just whining about a very vocal minority on there I'm sure that are trying to do what you've alluded to: portray the average Russian soldier as some sort of compassionate, yet emotionless in the face of battle, stoic who can run circles around the average American soldier, who's more concerned with both his baby kill count and his homosexual tendencies than his actual objective.

I'm familiar with the Russo-Chechen conflict, and I know about what all bad went on there. I've watched documentaries showing Russian soldiers crying about the deaths of their comrades and expressing how they felt betrayed by Moscow and still can't really sleep at night because of the things they saw there. Witnessing your best buddy's carved out head sitting around on some fence post in Grozny will do it to the best of them.

Just because Russia has a crappy healthcare system doesn't mean PTSD doesn't exist among its vets.
 
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#6,277
#6,277
Pacer92 said:
Not going to go on record and say this video is irrefutable, but I must admit he looks the part of a Russian marine.

And you're right. They have just as much reason to be there as we did in Iraq, if not more. I think Putin made a blunder early on by not rolling in the Russian army at the onset. Many lives would've been saved IMO.
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I don't agree with the annexation of Crimea, however one cuts it. However, I'm not going to pretend that, for Russians (from their perspective of how the world works), aren't necessarily justified in interfering in Ukraine, even militarily. From a Western perspective, they wouldn't be, but, then again, Russians are not Western Europeans or Americans, and I can't exactly condemn Russia in the harshest terms when we went to war in Iraq on weaker premises regarding threats to our national security/interests.

The notion, though, that an all-out Russian invasion (and not one marked by "special warfare," to use John Schindler's over at the 20committe blog term) would have saved more lives I could not disagree with more. Would be Russia's Iraq.
 
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#6,278
#6,278
agent|orange said:
The US didn't roll into Iraq and turn around and say "we're not in Iraq".

The US didn't forcibly annex Iraq, either. It was a prolonged process but we did turn them over to their own (against us in every accord) parliment.

When Russia leaves Ukraine and witnesses them vote to join the EU and NATO and then sign over leasing rights of the pipeline going across the region of Ukraine that the fighting is over... then we'll talk about parallels.

NOTE: I was opposed to Iraq then and now. This is nothing like Iraq.
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I'm not comparing this to Iraq. You're leaving out many facts, however. Russia didn't come into the Crimea and just say it's time to come home. There was a staged overthrow of a democratically elected government led by the USofA.

They initiated change....and they got it..

The isolation of Russia and it's allies have been long in the plans. And anyone who doesn't see it along the same lines as the US, gets change.....simple as that.
 
#6,279
#6,279
Pacer92 said:
I'm not comparing this to Iraq. You're leaving out many facts, however. Russia didn't come into the Crimea and just say it's time to come home. There was a staged overthrow of a democratically elected government led by the USofA.

They initiated change....and they got it..

The isolation of Russia and it's allies have been long in the plans. And anyone who doesn't see it along the same lines as the US, gets change.....simple as that.
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I guess some posters' reluctance to see any real (beyond mere moral support and a few billion over 20 years) US force behind the Maidan is akin to some posters' reluctance to see any actual Russian involvement in rebel military ops.
 
#6,280
#6,280
LouderVol said:
ah, i may just be mis-remembering reports of them being pushed out of one building as them being pushed out of all of it. and yeah they are BA.
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It's hard to distinguish what reports are true. The Ukrainian side say they have pushed the separatists out and control the whole airport, the rebels say they have it, the truth is probably some where in the middle.
 
#6,283
#6,283
Rasputin_Vol said:
Land of the Free...

New police radars can 'see' inside homes
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Russian whataboutism at it's best.

In a thread about Ukraine, a brave poster brings up a technology that will likely be ruled/held as Unconstitutional:

Kyllo v. United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nobody in here, AFAIK, is saying "The US is a bastion of freedom and democracy". We're just saying "Russia is doing bad stuff". "Yeah, but what about [insert thing US or West is doing or has done at some point in the last 2-300 years."
 
#6,284
#6,284
Burhead said:
Though she has her faults, she is a lot better than most alternatives.
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That would have been true pre-9/11. This country has since torn up the Bill of Rights and bailed out the poor, lazy and stupid with liberal programs and the rich, bankster interests with our neo-con foreign policy to protect the petrodollar.

The middle class in this country is sucked dry financially and ruled by an iron-fisted big brother.
 
#6,285
#6,285
Rasputin_Vol said:
That would have been true pre-9/11. This country has since torn up the Bill of Rights and bailed out the poor, lazy and stupid with liberal programs and the rich, bankster interests with our neo-con foreign policy to protect the petrodollar.

The middle class in this country is sucked dry financially and ruled by an iron-fisted big brother.
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What do you have against stupid people?
 
#6,287
#6,287
Burhead said:
@StateOfUkraine 36m36 minutes ago

Russian war games in Transnistria on Ukraine's southern brdr will focus on guerrilla tactics (useful in a hybrid war) Новость подробно : Министерство обороны Ð*оссийской Федерации …
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really? i know they host war games there periodically and have done so before in this conflict but it seems if they were genuine about not being involved they would move the wargame away so that they aren't in the picture at all for more 'broken gps' incidents.

kinda seems to me that they are posturing, as is the case with most wargames, but why would they if they are innocent/peaceful?
 
#6,288
#6,288
Pacer92 said:
And you wouldn't I'm positive...
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my first reaction would be the same as it was for this case "Oh F__k!" then i would start digging, like i did on this. and then depending on what the results of my digging were i would revise my opinion. to be honest my first reaction besides the one mentioned above is skepticism
 
#6,289
#6,289
volprof said:
I guess some posters' reluctance to see any real (beyond mere moral support and a few billion over 20 years) US force behind the Maidan is akin to some posters' reluctance to see any actual Russian involvement in rebel military ops.
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Most of the external pressure behind Maidan was from the EU. Ukraine looked at other former Soviet-Bloc countries and how they were doing (Poland, Lithuania, etc) and wanted a piece of that pie. "We want what they've got". If you were in Ukraine... wouldn't you? Wouldn't you want the ability to freely travel to France, Germany, Czech Republic, etc to see the women, eat the food and seek more gainful employment?

They wanted assurance of mutual defense against a burgeoning "big brother" and wanted in on the economic prosperity that EU membership would bring.

Some info: How Poland Became Europe's Most Dynamic Economy - Businessweek

So, yeah, I'm sure that ole Uncle Sam was playing some part but it was more Matron Merkel et al. I'm not one to skirt condemnation of the US but I'm also not one that will desperately cling to Kremlin fed information to seek condemnation where there is none.
 
#6,290
#6,290
Pacer92 said:
I'm not comparing this to Iraq. You're leaving out many facts, however. Russia didn't come into the Crimea and just say it's time to come home. really why did their soldiers invade before the referendum and seize government buildings?There was a staged overthrow of a democratically elected government led by the USofA. How many Ukrainians outside of the Russian dominated regions complained about this? how many have supported. and wasnt Poroshenko elected too?TASS: World - Petro Poroshenko wins Ukraine presidential election

They initiated change....and they got it..

The isolation of Russia and it's allies have been long in the plans. and has been in place since the Wall fell. Russia is the one who initiated the change when the started retaking land and destabilizing the newly created nations that once belonged to them. Do we still get to tell Cuba what to do? or the Philippines? that was sovereign US territory that we gave away, why can't Russia let go? And anyone who doesn't see it along the same lines as the US, gets change.....simple as that.
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same ole song and dance, America is the only nation with political will to get anything done half the world away on the doorstep of an ex-super power.
 
#6,291
#6,291
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#6,292
#6,292
Rasputin_Vol said:
That would have been true pre-9/11. This country has since torn up the Bill of Rights and bailed out the poor, lazy and stupid with liberal programs and the rich, bankster interests with our neo-con foreign policy to protect the petrodollar.

The middle class in this country is sucked dry financially and ruled by an iron-fisted big brother.
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It's terrible.
 
#6,293
#6,293
@MaxRTucker 5m5 minutes ago Ukraine

BREAKING: #Ukraine volunteer battalions admit Kyiv has lost control of #Donestk airport, #Russia media celebrates
 
#6,294
#6,294
Looks like this time it's true, both sides are confirming the Cyborgs have been pushed out of the airport which is entirely in Russian hands.
 
#6,296
#6,296
Duma, with Putin's blessing (obviously) is currently moving towards establishing a law that would determine what non-governmental groups can operate in the country.

At this rate, and certainly once they shift to their intranet, Russia should be a nineteenth-century nation once again in no time.

I don't know how many times that bunch has to be reminded that reverting to previous centuries is not the way to defeat the US. But, like anything, if you do it enough, eventually it will work at least once. Maybe this is the time.
 
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#6,298
#6,298
Burhead said:
Believe it when I see it.
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Believable that there is an agreement. Of course whether the agreement actually means anything is an entirely different matter.

Either way, the fact that this comes on the heels of a separatist victory suggests it's not going to be of much benefit to Kyiv.
 
#6,300
#6,300
@DevinAckles 2h2 hours ago

@MarkGaleotti Rumors in Kyiv of a 'cleansing' of the General Staff already circulating following losses at Donetsk Airport.
 
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