Ukraine Protests

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#5,876
#5,876
Rasputin_Vol said:
Russia was perfectly fine with the arrangement with Ukraine
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What arrangement? Ukraine as a Russian "puppet state" (to use your language)?


Rasputin_Vol said:
the US is not a fair nation and uses their currency as a weapon to control countries through sanctions and financial means
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But it's OK when Russia does the exact same thing with energy, right?
 
#5,881
#5,881
Rasputin_Vol said:
Who was/is Russia controlling with energy?
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Ukraine. You seem to forget pretty regularly how Russia ended up with Crimea. Russia signed a deal with the ex pres that in return for giving up Crimea they would drop the oil debt (that is owned by a company) and allow Ukraine to buy oil at a rate it could afford (same Russian company charging more than Ukraine could pay directly leading to Ukraine having to give up land to companies owner and home). Then as soon as ex pres becomes ex pres Russia says debt is on, oil is high, but they still own Crimea.
 
#5,882
#5,882
agent|orange said:
I said the exact same thing.

I just didn't say all the other fluff you did and I try to use legitimate (i.e. not state-owned) sources to back up what I'm saying.

The UN has been the driving force behind just about everything you've referenced. Afghanistan never was, nor is it still now, a US mission. It was a UN backed mission with all votes in favor of all UNSC Resolutions for action. This includes your often referenced and ballyhooed China and Russia.

So where in this are you going to possibly say Afghanistan is a result of US "puppeteering" when all the facts and evidence clearly point to it as a UN mission under NATO direction with the US providing a majority of the muscle and diplomatic presence in? Neither Russia nor China have balked at Afghanistan nor the extension of the NATO mission in Afghanistan (UNSC Resolution 2011) which they, ironically enough, voted in favor of.
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You have to realize to these guys the UN NATO and anyone with a kind word to the US is a puppet to the US incapable of free thought. Until said random country speaks against US and becomes symbol of freedom from US tyranny. However as soon as that same country speaks against Russia its back to being a puppet. (Read some of ras's comments on Germany in this thread)
 
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#5,883
#5,883
LouderVol said:
Ukraine. You seem to forget pretty regularly how Russia ended up with Crimea. Russia signed a deal with the ex pres that in return for giving up Crimea they would drop the oil debt (that is owned by a company) and allow Ukraine to buy oil at a rate it could afford (same Russian company charging more than Ukraine could pay directly leading to Ukraine having to give up land to companies owner and home). Then as soon as ex pres becomes ex pres Russia says debt is on, oil is high, but they still own Crimea.
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The way I understood it, Russia was paying leasing fees to Ukraine for the use of the Sevastopol Naval facility. I'm not sure of any deal before this summer where Russia agreed to forgive Ukraine's debt in exchange for energy. I know that Putin and Merkel had worked out a land for oil deal in August, but don't recall anything like that from Yanukovich. Also, not only was Ukraine behind on energy payments, but they have been siphoning off gas from the pipelines for years. Ukraine doesn't have the moral high ground on that issue.
 
#5,884
#5,884
What are her CIA/State Department ties?

Eka Zguladze, who served as Georgia’s deputy interior minister under ex-president Mikheil Saakashvili’s administration, is expected to become a second former Georgian official to take senior government post in Ukraine after ex-healthcare minister Alexander Kvitashvili took the same post in Ukraine earlier this month.

Ukraine’s President Petro Poroshenko granted Zguladze Ukrainian citizenship on December 13 and said that she is a candidate for the post of the first deputy interior minister, expressing hope that she will help to eradicate corruption in Ukrainian traffic police.
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#5,885
#5,885
So apparently Russia is the fifth most dangerous country on Earth to be a journalist, coming in behind such sterling bastions of free press (without the fear of being murdered) as Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan.
 
#5,886
#5,886
Chart of the day

B46U3yeIYAA81Y4.jpg
 
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#5,887
#5,887
The danger for Russia with Ukraine?

Ukraine was fine as long as they were a post Warsaw Pact lapdog.

When Ukraine started getting dangerous is when they looked across their borders and saw another country that was ripped apart by the brutal subjugation techniques of the Soviets... Poland... and saw a nation that was dragging itself out of the purges of the 1930s/1940s and the complete wipe of any cultural significance for the next 40 years.

So Ukraine wanted to be part of NATO for protection and the EU for economic prosperity.

That is dangerous to Russia because as major gas pipelines run across Ukraine on their way to European markets. The Russians feared that if the Ukrainians became part of the Euro/Anglosphere (where life is pretty damned good) that there would be significant problems.

The Russians lost their lapdog. They wanted it back.

Instead of cooperating with what is clearly a much more lucrative way of life for all strata of existence, Russia goes full Soviet Reunion on the world. Putin sells this as "Russia standing up to the world".

Russia has no interest in being a cooperating partner. It sees that as subservience and will seek to upper-hand everything it can. It's not fighting for it's survival. Well, it is if you buy into Kremlin propaganda.
 
#5,890
#5,890
volprof said:
Magic number 63. What is it now? 63 rubles to the dollar? I take it we won't be getting many Russian tourists this coming year. I think the Eastern Caribbean has a more favorable exchange rate. Geez.
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Last I saw was 60 to the dollar. They've also lost 45% of it's value to the dollar since the start of the year. I'll say this, if the Ruble keeps dropping Putin won't have a choice but to invade the rest of Ukraine.
 
#5,894
#5,894
Burhead said:
Last I saw was 60 to the dollar. They've also lost 45% of it's value to the dollar since the start of the year. I'll say this, if the Ruble keeps dropping Putin won't have a choice but to invade the rest of Ukraine.
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If it gets much worse, the sanctions may actually produce the effect they were intended to prohibit. Not a world war, mind you, but a Russian invasion of Ukraine like you say. The weakened and injured bear has been backed into the corner; it will need to produce some results soon to regain its "status."
 
#5,895
#5,895
I don't know if any of you watched either of those two YouTube videos I linked a day or two ago (probably should have provided some descriptors), but the second one was of Michael McFaul, former ambassador to Russia, speaking at some convention in Aspen this year. Perhaps it was hyperbole, but he claimed that (since he had been visiting Russia in the early 80s as a student) the current state of Russian nationalism, even on the part of the common citizen, was as rampant, passionate, and as dogged as he had ever seen there.
 
#5,896
#5,896
volprof said:
I don't know if any of you watched either of those two YouTube videos I linked a day or two ago (probably should have provided some descriptors), but the second one was of Michael McFaul, former ambassador to Russia, speaking at some convention in Aspen this year. Perhaps it was hyperbole, but he claimed that (since he had been visiting Russia in the early 80s as a student) the current state of Russian nationalism, even on the part of the common citizen, was as rampant, passionate, and as dogged as he had ever seen there.
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That's what usually happens when the state has absolute power over all media and quickly silences any opposition.
 
#5,897
#5,897
Rasputin_Vol said:
Imagine how irate most Americans would be if we had a revolution and several of the top positions in the new govt were filled by foreigners... Imagine the outrage if were to have a foreign born POTUS, for example.
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Arnold says hi.

of course there is no revolution there, but I still fail to see your point.

if he/she is voted in, no problem. As far as the cabinet I am pretty sure there have been a number of foreigners there already, and is not the general public's concern.

and in this situation for Ukraine its not like these are Russians or Americans coming in. This is a regional country move from a country that shares many of the same values as Ukraine does. (Russia sucks and needs to stay the **** out of our country)
 
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