Ukraine Protests

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#5,226
#5,226
No side ever wins the debate on self-determination. Philosophically, its extreme outcome is anarchy. However, there are legitimate scenarios in which a state or even community might secede.
 
#5,227
#5,227
red butler said:
So just because there were guns at the polls makes the vote illegitimate? Was this vote illegitimate?

An-Iraqi-soldier-searches-002.jpg


Caption reads "An Iraqi soldier searches a woman's purse at the entrance to a polling centre in central Baghdad"

My point is in some parts of the world polling stations are targets for violence and need security. It seems the only time the votes are illegitimate is when we disagree with the outcome.
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Inside the polling station? I could understand security OUTSIDE but you lose your argument when there are men with automatic weapons INSIDE.
 
#5,232
#5,232
LouderVol said:
yeah because that is what happens when you separate yourself from the country, you no longer get the benefits of being a citizen.
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So, if I decide to move to Canada when I retire... they'll take away my social security that I've paid into my entire life.

It's not like Scotland or other areas seeking independence want to start a war against their governments. They just don't want to continue to be ruled by them.
 
#5,233
#5,233
red butler said:
So, if I decide to move to Canada when I retire... they'll take away my social security that I've paid into my entire life.

It's not like Scotland or other areas seeking independence want to start a war against their governments. They just don't want to continue to be ruled by them.
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well if you are like me SS won't be around when you retire, so in this example you don't have to leave it won't be there regardless. :) But in your example yes, if you leave the US why would the US give money to foreigner? unless you are fighting against Syria of course.

to the scotland freedom thing, that's the whole thing, you can't pick and choose what parts you are a part of, its either all or nothing. If you don't like the rules don't play the game but don't expect to score. it like me saying I don't want to do work anymore but I should still be paid, why?
 
#5,234
#5,234
LouderVol said:
well if you are like me SS won't be around when you retire, so in this example you don't have to leave it won't be there regardless. :) But in your example yes, if you leave the US why would the US give money to foreigner? unless you are fighting against Syria of course.

to the scotland freedom thing, that's the whole thing, you can't pick and choose what parts you are a part of, its either all or nothing. If you don't like the rules don't play the game but don't expect to score. it like me saying I don't want to do work anymore but I should still be paid, why?
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#5,235
#5,235
LouderVol said:
well if you are like me SS won't be around when you retire, so in this example you don't have to leave it won't be there regardless. :) But in your example yes, if you leave the US why would the US give money to foreigner? unless you are fighting against Syria of course.

to the scotland freedom thing, that's the whole thing, you can't pick and choose what parts you are a part of, its either all or nothing. If you don't like the rules don't play the game but don't expect to score. it like me saying I don't want to do work anymore but I should still be paid, why?
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This is purely philosophical because I agree SS will be broke soon. Wages are paid for work you performed. Obviously if you don't work, you shouldn't get paid. But Retirement benefits are something you funded. Why should the state take your property if you decide to leave?
 
#5,236
#5,236
red butler said:
This is purely philosophical because I agree SS will be broke soon. Wages are paid for work you performed. Obviously if you don't work, you shouldn't get paid. But Retirement benefits are something you funded. Why should the state take your property if you decide to leave?
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i understand the philosophical part, but in this case dealing with SS is based in reality (avoiding the fact that it is going under) as to why you can't take SS when you leave, i would say it is because it is a state sponsored program with clear guidelines. the way i over simplify it is: a lease-to-own deal on retirement funds. you only get your investment back if you outlast the 'lease' if you give up before hand you have to hand the keys back over.

now to the philosophical part, is that right that you can't get your money back? its a tax, it counts as a reduction on my return, one that is taken out before taxes are levied against my income. and as any tax you don't get to take your dollars with you. frankly I have no idea if that SS money taken out is a actually a tax vs a deduction but it acts like one, and you don't get to take your tax dollars with you. you have to remember that SS is based on a pay it forward method (which is why it is going to fail)

i have more to type but not the time....
 
#5,241
#5,241
Rasputin_Vol said:
Your argument about secession is weak.
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Since you are pro-secession, are you in favor of Russia granting independence to the following regions:

-Chechnya
-Dagestan
-Ingushetia
-Kalingrad Oblast
-Karelia

Or any of the other dozens of regions in Russia that want independence that Russia refuses to grant?

Russia conviently uses secession movements to advance their national interests in hopes of creating a greater Eurasian Organization to act as a counter balance to the EU/Euro zone. Don't try to act like what Russia is doing us right. They are violating the sovereign territory of former states that they treated horribly in the USSR days. Do you not remember in the post WWII days of forcible annexation of many of these countries? You man crush on Putin is showing BTW!
 
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#5,242
#5,242
Poothead named Forbes' Most Powerful again. Obama second. Xi Jinping third. Of course, it's easy to be powerful when you can do whatever the heck you want with little checks or balances.

In other (and probably related) news, ruble hit a new low again today.
 
#5,245
#5,245
#5,246
#5,246
Yeah, they are so paranoid that they are running away from the dollar like mice on a sinking ship...

APA - Russia may ban circulation of US dollar

If the bill is approved, Russian citizens will have to close their dollar accounts in Russian banks within a year and exchange their dollars in cash to Russian ruble or other countries’ currencies.

Otherwise their accounts will be frozen and cash dollars levied by police, customs, tax, border, and migration services confiscated.
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#5,249
#5,249
SergeantVol said:
Since you are pro-secession, are you in favor of Russia granting independence to the following regions:

-Chechnya
-Dagestan
-Ingushetia
-Kalingrad Oblast
-Karelia

Or any of the other dozens of regions in Russia that want independence that Russia refuses to grant?

Russia conviently uses secession movements to advance their national interests in hopes of creating a greater Eurasian Organization to act as a counter balance to the EU/Euro zone. Don't try to act like what Russia is doing us right. They are violating the sovereign territory of former states that they treated horribly in the USSR days. Do you not remember in the post WWII days of forcible annexation of many of these countries? You man crush on Putin is showing BTW!
Click to expand...

Waiting for an answer Rasputin.
 
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