Ukraine Protests

[LouderVol]

I know it is cliche but what about Germany during WW2?

Centrally located power for other than defense is a hell of a bad thing.

which is why no governments exist anywhere? I will agree to an extent, governments are a necessary evil as long as other governments exist, never ending cycle.

 

[Pacer92]

I'm not saying that communism is an ideal system at all. There are plusses and minuses to all systems. What I am saying is that we major flaws here within the US govt. but you will never hear of them because of our own "state run media".

Concerning your Russia question....in my belief, Russia is not the aggressor in this conflict. Yanukovich, after leaning toward an EU deal switched at the last moment to closer economic ties with Russia. So, instead of waiting until reelection in Ukraine, WE stage a coup that removes him. We replace him with Porky the pig, a yes man who is subservient to US agendas like all puppet NATO states. In no way no how was Putin going to let NATO take a warm water naval port away from the RF. Crimeans voted 97% to leave Ukraine. The US ploy to take away this port had back fired.....Putin-2, Obama-0.

The Russians have negotiated two cease fire pacts with both the Ukrainians and the Rebels. They have sent two humanitarian convoys to E Ukraine that were held up for weeks by the US and Ukraine, no less. They fully cooperated in the downing of MH117, sending radar and satellite images to the investigation. The Ukrainian govt has yet to release air traffic control recordings. Give me links and show me proof of Russia sending troops or weapons inside the country of Ukraine....would love to see it!!

 

[Pacer92]

Are German people evil?

No. And that's exactly my point. Propaganda war.

The vast majority of Germans thought they were fighting for a just cause.....they had know idea of the govt intent.

Exactly like here in the US now...

 

[UTVOLKeith]

I'm not saying that communism is an ideal system at all. There are plusses and minuses to all systems. What I am saying is that we major flaws here within the US govt. but you will never hear of them because of our own "state run media".

Concerning your Russia question....in my belief, Russia is not the aggressor in this conflict. Yanukovich, after leaning toward an EU deal switched at the last moment to closer economic ties with Russia. So, instead of waiting until reelection in Ukraine, WE stage a coup that removes him. We replace him with Porky the pig, a yes man who is subservient to US agendas like all puppet NATO states. In no way no how was Putin going to let NATO take a warm water naval port away from the RF. Crimeans voted 97% to leave Ukraine. The US ploy to take away this port had back fired.....Putin-2, Obama-0.

The Russians have negotiated two cease fire pacts with both the Ukrainians and the Rebels. They have sent two humanitarian convoys to E Ukraine that were held up for weeks by the US and Ukraine, no less. They fully cooperated in the downing of MH117, sending radar and satellite images to the investigation. The Ukrainian govt has yet to release air traffic control recordings. Give me links and show me proof of Russia sending troops or weapons inside the country of Ukraine....would love to see it!!

Nice post. I agree almost 100%.

 

[Velo Vol]

Case in point...there have been no verified cases of arms coming from Russia that isn't a fabrication by western media to keep on keeping on.

You mean besides all the videos and photographs and satellite photographs and stuff.

 

[LouderVol]

I'm not saying that communism is an ideal system at all. There are plusses and minuses to all systems. What I am saying is that we major flaws here within the US govt. but you will never hear of them because of our own "state run media".


Really, its about all I hear when I switch on the MSM. Every attack on the Ds or Rs is pointing out the problem, the real problem is both sides believe they are 100% correct and the other is 100% wrong

Concerning your Russia question....in my belief, Russia is not the aggressor in this conflict. Yanukovich, after leaning toward an EU deal switched at the last moment to closer economic ties with Russia. So, instead of waiting until reelection in Ukraine, WE stage a coup that removes him. We replace him with Porky the pig, a yes man who is subservient to US agendas like all puppet NATO states. In no way no how was Putin going to let NATO take a warm water naval port away from the RF. Crimeans voted 97% to leave Ukraine. The US ploy to take away this port had back fired.....Putin-2, Obama-0.

of the numbers that Russia released, despite talks of uncounted votes, whole populations not being allowed to vote or informed of the vote. (how much is true is impossible to say, both sides are saying completely opposite thing)

The Russians have negotiated two cease fire pacts with both the Ukrainians and the Rebels. They have sent two humanitarian convoys to E Ukraine that were held up for weeks by the US UN IRC and Ukraine, no less. They fully cooperated in the downing of MH117, sending radar and satellite images to the investigation. The Ukrainian govt has yet to release air traffic control recordings. Give me links and show me proof of Russia sending troops or weapons inside the country of Ukraine....would love to see it!!

i don't think the second convoy even stopped to be checked, could be wrong, haven't been keeping up as much with this.

The Russians did get their rebel forces to turn over the black box, which was nice, but again if Russia had nothing to do with this situation how are they able to talk down these rebels?

as far as evidence it is all over this thread, forgive me if i don't feel like rehashing this whole thread over again.

 

[LouderVol]

You mean besides all the videos and photographs and satellite photographs and stuff.

and don't forget the eye witness accounts in both Russia and Ukraine. clearly all a CIA operation. I am glad they got competent real fast here after embarrassing themselves all over the world for the last decade or so.

 

[Pacer92]

You mean besides all the videos and photographs and satellite photographs and stuff.

You mean the fabricated ish that the US govt feeds it's sheep?

The Buk missile launcher clip was proven a fake. As were the tapes of the supposed two rebels talking about it.

The satellite images were also proven a fake by the Russian military no less. Lol

 

[Pacer92]

i don't think the second convoy even stopped to be checked, could be wrong, haven't been keeping up as much with this.

The Russians did get their rebel forces to turn over the black box, which was nice, but again if Russia had nothing to do with this situation how are they able to talk down these rebels?

as far as evidence it is all over this thread, forgive me if i don't feel like rehashing this whole thread over again.

I believe the Russians have much influence over the people of E Ukraine because there are many Russians living there. The Ukrainian govt has never set down to talk to these people about there autonomy or anything for that matter. They have killed many innocent people in trying to force these people in being obedient. The Russians have not. Jmo

 

[volprof]

You mean besides all the videos and photographs and satellite photographs and stuff.

And all the dead Russian soldiers.

Some people, you could have them go interview the rebel side, have a Russian soldier admit to being a Russian soldier right in front of them, and they'd probably then insist on seeing some actual proof.

Where does it end? Traveling through time so that you can go back to see them being Russian soldiers in the Russian military in Russia before fighting in Ukraine?

 

[LouderVol]

And all the dead Russian soldiers.

Some people, you could have them go interview the rebel side, have a Russian soldier admit to being a Russian soldier right in front of them, and they'd probably then insist on seeing some actual proof.

Where does it end? Traveling through time so that you can go back to see them being Russian soldiers in the Russian military in Russia before fighting in Ukraine?

as i have said, until Putin calls them to tell them he has invaded they will deny it

 

[Pacer92]

And all the dead Russian soldiers.

Some people, you could have them go interview the rebel side, have a Russian soldier admit to being a Russian soldier right in front of them, and they'd probably then insist on seeing some actual proof.

Where does it end? Traveling through time so that you can go back to see them being Russian soldiers in the Russian military in Russia before fighting in Ukraine?

There are Russian natives that are fighting in E Ukraine with the rebels, along with many many more nationalities, but there are no Russian military servicemen in Ukraine. This is laughable!!! They are whipping Keiv's ass without them

 

[UTVOLKeith]

Obama is telling the world we have problems too.."just look at Ferguson" he says

I say look at the Justice Department

you ole profit you!

 

[LouderVol]

There are Russian natives that are fighting in E Ukraine with the rebels, along with many many more nationalities, but there are no Russian military servicemen in Ukraine. This is laughable!!! They are whipping Keiv's ass without them

the rebels were losing ground and were broken until the AID convoys showed up, then they began a big push back. I'm not a 5 star general but it seems someone got some reinforcements.

 

[Velo Vol]

This is laughable!!!

That we are even "debating" well-established facts is.

Let me ask you, though, a couple things:

(1) How does it benefit America to "frame" Russian military involvement in Eastern Ukraine? America isn't going to war against Russia. It's barely even helping the Ukrainian military. Why bother?

(2) What do you believe the Kyiv government would be doing, absent the non-military Russian fighters? Rounding up ethnic Russians in Donetsk and executing them in mass graves? Is this what peace-loving Russia wants to protect against?

 

[Pacer92]

That we are even "debating" well-established facts is.

Let me ask you, though, a couple things:

(1) How does it benefit America to "frame" Russian military involvement in Eastern Ukraine? America isn't going to war against Russia. It's barely even helping the Ukrainian military. Why bother?

(2) What do you believe the Kyiv government would be doing, absent the non-military Russian fighters? Rounding up ethnic Russians in Donetsk and executing them in mass graves? Is this what peace-loving Russia wants to protect against?

Why frame Russia? Because we want to eventually cause revolution and destabilize Russia like the Ukranian mess now. That way we break it up into many states(easier to control that way....ie..United states, canada, and now EU) while our corrupt ass govt and the mega-rich make trillions exploiting it's natural resources.

Media and propaganda is our war with Russia. China is on deck...

 

[LouderVol]

Why frame Russia? Because we want to eventually cause revolution and destabilize Russia like the Ukranian mess now. That way we break it up into many states(easier to control that way....ie..United states, canada, and now EU) while our corrupt ass govt and the mega-rich make trillions exploiting it's natural resources.

Media and propaganda is our war with Russia. China is on deck...

encase you missed it Russian companies are buying up American ones, PBR. so maybe not the doom and gloom you are projecting for Russia.

and Russia and China were just sitting there on the sides doing nothing wrong before we became involved right..... you might want to look into both of those countries increasing their sovereign waters, they are doing the resource grabbing too.

 

[Pacer92]

encase you missed it Russian companies are buying up American ones, PBR. so maybe not the doom and gloom you are projecting for Russia.

and Russia and China were just sitting there on the sides doing nothing wrong before we became involved right..... you might want to look into both of those countries increasing their sovereign waters, they are doing the resource grabbing too.

It's not as if Russia went into Crimea unprovoked with a military invasion. This was total backlash from OUR doings. Same thing with the Georgian war....we the USofA was behind that as well.

 

[LouderVol]

It's not as if Russia went into Crimea unprovoked with a military invasion. This was total backlash from OUR doings. Same thing with the Georgian war....we the USofA was behind that as well.

I'm glad you have such a complete understanding of the world. Any problem, anywhere, within the last 4 decades = USofA.

and just so I get this straight, us inviting Ukraine to join NATO gives Russia justification to annex part of Ukraine and instigate and then support rebellion in other parts? I guess we shouldn't be making alliances or treaties with anyone because it could pose a threat to their neighbor if the second nation went to war with the first.

 

[Pacer92]

I'm glad you have such a complete understanding of the world. Any problem, anywhere, within the last 4 decades = USofA.

and just so I get this straight, us inviting Ukraine to join NATO gives Russia justification to annex part of Ukraine and instigate and then support rebellion in other parts? I guess we shouldn't be making alliances or treaties with anyone because it could pose a threat to their neighbor if the second nation went to war with the first.

All I'm going to say is if you think that we aren't playing the lead role behind the cluster which is Ukraine....you are uninformed.

 

[volprof]

There are Russian natives that are fighting in E Ukraine with the rebels, along with many many more nationalities, but there are no Russian military servicemen in Ukraine. This is laughable!!! They are whipping Keiv's ass without them

Case in point.

 

[volprof]

It's not as if Russia went into Crimea unprovoked with a military invasion. This was total backlash from OUR doings. Same thing with the Georgian war....we the USofA was behind that as well.

A person in Mongolia farts, and I can guaran-damn-tee you that the US was the cause.

 

[volprof]

I partially understand the criticism of the US regarding its role in the post-Soviet sphere, but, at the same time, some of you treat these peoples like they have no national consciousness, will, identity, or sovereignty. It's just like they're some sort of pawn in the American plot that has no consciousness whatsoever. Ukrainians couldn't possibly want closer ties with Europe, a continent they're a part of; therefore, America!

I wish you could see how insulting this argument is to those peoples.

Now, what exactly America's role has been in the post-Soviet space and whether that role as been primarily positive or negative is another debate altogether.

 

[Pacer92]

I partially understand the criticism of the US regarding its role in the post-Soviet sphere, but, at the same time, some of you treat these peoples like they have no national consciousness, will, identity, or sovereignty. It's just like they're some sort of pawn in the American plot that has no consciousness whatsoever. Ukrainians couldn't possibly want closer ties with Europe, a continent they're a part of; therefore, America!

I wish you could see how insulting this argument is to those peoples.

Now, what exactly America's role has been in the post-Soviet space and whether that role as been primarily positive or negative is another debate altogether.

The big picture is it's not a European thing at all. Ukrainians heritage is much deeper rooted in the Russian values, traditions and culture.

After the fall of the Soviet Union NATO agreed to leave some old soviet nations as buffer states between Russia and NATO. They have infringed upon this time and time again in order to with the so called missile defense systems. Make no bones about it, NATO, who is run by the US and it's hand chosen puppet rulers are all aligning to move closer to Russia in order to provoke war and revolution.

You guys need to see that we are not spreading democracy and ousting evil regimes. We, in fact, are destroying democratically elected govts and their leaders. Wake the hell up people....

 

[volprof]

The big picture is it's not a European thing at all. Ukrainians heritage is much deeper rooted in the Russian values, traditions and culture.

After the fall of the Soviet Union NATO agreed to leave some old soviet nations as buffer states between Russia and NATO. They have infringed upon this time and time again in order to with the so called missile defense systems. Make no bones about it, NATO, who is run by the US and it's hand chosen puppet rulers are all aligning to move closer to Russia in order to provoke war and revolution.

You guys need to see that we are not spreading democracy and ousting evil regimes. We, in fact, are destroying democratically elected govts and their leaders. Wake the hell up people....

Who said any of us thought the US was spreading democracy? I certainly didn't.

But, unlike you, we don't think Ukraine is a part of Russia.