Ukraine Protests

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#3,951
#3,951
Rasputin_Vol said:
No, not different, but better in certain things than here in this country. I realize corruption is worldwide, but the steps we've taken over the last 15-20 years has moved this country from being a liberating force to an occupying force... all in an effort to protect the fiat US dollar.
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Again, we know, but your problem is that you assume it is somehow different elsewhere. When the Holy Triumvirate of Germany, Russia, and France, coupled with China take over the world, what do you think they're going to do? Usher in some era of peace, liberty, and prosperity for all. No, they're going to manipulate things as well.
 
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#3,952
#3,952
Rasputin_Vol said:
If we continue on our current path, this country will blow up and we will have to start from scratch. This country is a Ponzi scheme, built on top of a Ponzi scheme. Everything we have going right now just about is unsustainable. SS, the military campaigns worldwide, the QE dollar printing, a growing aging population/fewer working youth...

Thats why I support Hillary Clinton in 2016. She will drive the car over the cliff and start the reset faster than if we allow Christie or one of the other GOP candidates get in and just kick the can down the road even longer. Hillary will put us out of our misery earlier and we can rebuild afterwards.
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Perhaps so.
 
#3,953
#3,953
Rasputin_Vol said:
Even then, you are mistaken. This country has been taken over by the banks. They privatize profits and socialize the losses. That was why the tax payer paid the tab of the banker bailout in 2008/2009, yet Goldman-Sacks was able to be re-paid dollar for dollar in bailout money from the taxpayer on their bad derivatives bets.

This country hasn't been about "by the people, for the people" in a long time.
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"banks . . . privatize profits and socialize the losses"

As much as I hate to agree with Rasputin, there is some truth to this statement.
 
#3,954
#3,954
Abe Hoffman said:



"banks . . . privatize profits and socialize the losses"

As much as I hate to agree with Rasputin, there is some truth to this statement.
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I do too, but (and correct me if I'm wrong), don't all banks everywhere do such things? If, for instance, China goes under due to its own housing bubble (not likely but a possibility), does anyone think China's going to watch its own banks collapse? No, its either going to replace the leadership or liquidate the company and replace it with a new one. Either way, the common Chinese taxpayer will be bankrolling it.

I'm not saying this is a great thing; it's just how **** works these days though.
 
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#3,955
#3,955
volprof said:
Yeah, that one. Make sure to watch it sometime if possible. It's probably not going to provide you with much information you don't already know (other than maybe a specific chronology of events that might be a good refresher), but it is very well made. It's really beautiful actually.

And unlike Rasputin, it will make you proud to be an American.
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I plan on it. Good intentions and all that.
 
#3,956
#3,956
volprof said:
I do too, but (and correct me if I'm wrong), don't all banks everywhere do such things? If, for instance, China goes under due to its own housing bubble (not likely but a possibility), does anyone think China's going to watch its own banks collapse? No, its either going to replace the leadership or liquidate the company and replace it with a new one. Either way, the common Chinese taxpayer will be bankrolling it.

I'm not saying this is a great thing; it's just how **** works these days though.
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I am not familiar with how the Chinese banking system works; however, I suspect that any bailout of their banks will ultimately be paid for by US consumers/taxpayers.

On another note: is my punctation correct in the above sentence? Should there be a semicolon before however and a coma after?
 
#3,957
#3,957
Abe Hoffman said:
I am not familiar with how the Chinese banking system works; however, I suspect that any bailout of their banks will ultimately be paid for by US consumers/taxpayers.

On another note: is my punctation correct in the above sentence? Should there be a semicolon before however and a coma after?
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Perhaps so. And I'm not sure if you're being serious about the last comment.
 
#3,958
#3,958
volprof said:
I do too, but (and correct me if I'm wrong), don't all banks everywhere do such things? If, for instance, China goes under due to its own housing bubble (not likely but a possibility), does anyone think China's going to watch its own banks collapse? No, its either going to replace the leadership or liquidate the company and replace it with a new one. Either way, the common Chinese taxpayer will be bankrolling it.

I'm not saying this is a great thing; it's just how **** works these days though.
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China has executed bank leaders that committed fraud to set an example, we haven't even filed charges against anyone. A fair Liquidation of the banks should have been the response to our crisis. Instead, Warren Buffet bought the good Lehman assets for pennies on the dollar and the taxpayer was stuck with the junk. The too big to fail banks should have been replaced by hundreds of smaller, less risky banks. In the long run it would have been cheaper on the taxpayer. Maybe as part of the liquidation, the homeowners/debtors could have been given the opportunity to refinance their mortgages at the firesale prices Buffett bought them at. Then the average taxpayer would have had more disposable income and a credit history that wasn't trashed to get the economy rolling. Instead the average person is enduring the suffering and we've just set ourselves up for a bigger fall next time.
 
#3,959
#3,959
red butler said:
China has executed bank leaders that committed fraud to set an example, we haven't even filed charges against anyone. A fair Liquidation of the banks should have been the response to our crisis. Instead, Warren Buffet bought the good Lehman assets for pennies on the dollar and the taxpayer was stuck with the junk. The too big to fail banks should have been replaced by hundreds of smaller, less risky banks. In the long run it would have been cheaper on the taxpayer. Maybe as part of the liquidation, the homeowners/debtors could have been given the opportunity to refinance their mortgages at the firesale prices Buffett bought them at. Then the average taxpayer would have had more disposable income and a credit history that wasn't trashed to get the economy rolling. Instead the average person is enduring the suffering and we've just set ourselves up for a bigger fall next time.
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So China kills its bankers. Well, perhaps they deserve it. That is a good ethical question. Does one who has purposely failed a group of people and/or nation in order to gain personal profit deserve the firing squad? That is seriously a good question. I'm being honest.

And your response seems very reasonable. I'm just skeptical of all governments, although I'm by no means an anarchist. I think it always comes down to a choice of the lesser evil. Humans are humans.
 
#3,961
#3,961
Abe Hoffman said:
Totally serious. It has been thirty plus years since freshman English at UT and my memory is fading.
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Well, since it appears now that you're not playing me like a two-dollar bill, yes, it is correct. Semicolon, however, comma always does the trick. Semicolon, therefore, comma also does it as well.
 
#3,962
#3,962
Rasputin_Vol said:
I would agree with you that we are inept and sloppy. The problem is that they continue to run the same plays in the playbook, yet still continue to think they are fooling the majority of the world. The only people that are delusional are the 'Muricans that look at FOX News or CNN/MSNBC...
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I wish we had as much power as you think we do. I know you get onto 'us' for believing the local media but d@mn dude you have bought into the Russia media like its printed on gold. I read a couple other media sources from other countries but the stuff you spout is only from Russia/N. Korea and a few other like minded crazies.

Russia gains from the chaos, look at where we are right now and the 'peacekeeping' troops waiting on the border, it gives them an excuse, a mistake was made in the chaos its not our fault we invaded and now hold Ukrainian territory blah blah blah. And I haven't been following this close enough to what has been turned up in the shooting down of the plain, but the last I heard the rebels did it ,probably because they thought it was a Ukrainian military jet, which they have shown the ability and willingness to shoot down before and after the civilian plain was shot down.

Maybe John Kerry was over there trying to talk the people down from this situation. Maybe the US wants Ukraine to be part of the EU just to keep it from being part of Russia again and all the crap going on in there. (there are any number of ways and reasons this happens) Maybe the US wants the Ukrainians to join the EU for better trade options that it currently has with the Ukraine. Two scenarios a dumb 'Murican came up with in 20 secs that are perfectly possible and have nothing wrong (morally) with them. But I am sure you will spout out something from the mainstream Russian outlets which in your mind couldn't possibly be wrong.
 
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#3,963
#3,963
red butler said:
China has executed bank leaders that committed fraud to set an example, we haven't even filed charges against anyone. A fair Liquidation of the banks should have been the response to our crisis. Instead, Warren Buffet bought the good Lehman assets for pennies on the dollar and the taxpayer was stuck with the junk. The too big to fail banks should have been replaced by hundreds of smaller, less risky banks. In the long run it would have been cheaper on the taxpayer. Maybe as part of the liquidation, the homeowners/debtors could have been given the opportunity to refinance their mortgages at the firesale prices Buffett bought them at. Then the average taxpayer would have had more disposable income and a credit history that wasn't trashed to get the economy rolling. Instead the average person is enduring the suffering and we've just set ourselves up for a bigger fall next time.
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as much as the banks effed us good. It still takes someone willing to spend more money than they can afford to get into uncontrollable debt. When something sounds too good to be true it usually is.
 
#3,965
#3,965
LouderVol said:
as much as the banks effed us good. It still takes someone willing to spend more money than they can afford to get into uncontrollable debt. When something sounds too good to be true it usually is.
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Completely agree about people getting into debt they could never hope to repay. I was mainly talking about the average American with a steady job that bought a house within their means. They're still paying for a house that is worth much less than what they paid for it. Even if the market has rebounded, it's only a matter of time til it corrects again when rates rise.

When the mortgages were liquidated, some rich folks got the bargain of the century while the average American is stuck with paying for an overpriced house, sell the house at a loss, or default and lose all equity.
 
#3,967
#3,967
red butler said:
Completely agree about people getting into debt they could never hope to repay. I was mainly talking about the average American with a steady job that bought a house within their means. They're still paying for a house that is worth much less than what they paid for it. Even if the market has rebounded, it's only a matter of time til it corrects again when rates rise.

When the mortgages were liquidated, some rich folks got the bargain of the century while the average American is stuck with paying for an overpriced house, sell the house at a loss, or default and lose all equity.
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agreed. my dad taught me a pretty simple lessen in economics. When everybody is buying, sell. When everyone is selling, buy. People bought into the bubble even with the signs of failure, which increased the size of the bubble making it worse in the end.
 
#3,968
#3,968
Uh oh. #WrongSideOfHistory

The Russian commanders "are fleeing like rats," said Andrei, a 27-year-old rebel in Donetsk. Like other locals who have joined the separatist cause, he gave only his first name out of fear of retribution either from the rebel leadership for speaking freely or from the Ukrainian authorities for taking up arms.

"We had hoped for help from Moscow, we had expected Russian troops, but Russia betrayed us," Andrei said. "Many fighters are beginning to think about their future and also are escaping to Russia."

Oleg, a 34-year-old member of a different rebel battalion, said his unit is running out of food, clothes and medicine.

"But we are ready to fight to the end and to die," he said. "Russia left us here to die and we are ready. They simply used us and abandoned us."
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#3,969
#3,969
Velo Vol said:
Uh oh.
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To this very day I still wonder what in the hell they're fighting for. Because some quack Ukrainian politician threatened to ban the Russian language, which never got passed? Because their Moscow strongman, who was stealing billions from them, decided to leave in the middle of the night?

Honestly, I have no flipping clue. It certainly isn't because of fascists, since they're all in the Kremlin.
 
#3,972
#3,972
Velo Vol said:
Well, to some degree, this answers your question, only apply it to the Russia side.
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Of course it's the product of a Russian scheme, no doubt. However, I keep wondering why actual Ukrainians (even the ethnic Russian ones) supported it in the first place, even though they're apparently in the minority (although you'd never know it by watching reports). I guess it was just a unique combination of Kremlin brainwashing and not really minding having the guy you elected stealing money out of your own pocket for his personal bank accounts. In other words, ignorance and/or stupidity.
 
#3,973
#3,973
volprof said:
I do too, but (and correct me if I'm wrong), don't all banks everywhere do such things? If, for instance, China goes under due to its own housing bubble (not likely but a possibility), does anyone think China's going to watch its own banks collapse? No, its either going to replace the leadership or liquidate the company and replace it with a new one. Either way, the common Chinese taxpayer will be bankrolling it.

I'm not saying this is a great thing; it's just how **** works these days though.
Click to expand...

red butler said:
China has executed bank leaders that committed fraud to set an example, we haven't even filed charges against anyone. A fair Liquidation of the banks should have been the response to our crisis. Instead, Warren Buffet bought the good Lehman assets for pennies on the dollar and the taxpayer was stuck with the junk. The too big to fail banks should have been replaced by hundreds of smaller, less risky banks. In the long run it would have been cheaper on the taxpayer. Maybe as part of the liquidation, the homeowners/debtors could have been given the opportunity to refinance their mortgages at the firesale prices Buffett bought them at. Then the average taxpayer would have had more disposable income and a credit history that wasn't trashed to get the economy rolling. Instead the average person is enduring the suffering and we've just set ourselves up for a bigger fall next time.
Click to expand...

And to add insult to injury, the banks that were too big to fail in 2009 are now even bigger thanks to the money being pumped into the financial system by the FED.

To volprof: So if we get to another crisis point in the future, are we due for another round of bailouts?
 
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#3,974
#3,974
Apparently Ukrainian forces have completely cut off Donestk city. If so, no more supplies will be coming in. It's about to get nitty-gritty time. Of course, this is like the 8th or 9th time I've probably said this in this thread.
 
#3,975
#3,975
Rasputin_Vol said:
And to add insult to injury, the banks that were too big to fail in 2009 are now even bigger thanks to the money being pumped into the financial system by the FED.

To volprof: So if we get to another crisis point in the future, are we due for another round of bailouts?
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I have no clue. I was of mixed feelings about the bailouts in the first place. I do think, however, that the men and women responsible for the crisis should have been brought to court.
 
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