Ukraine Protests

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#3,530
#3,530
The Alliance is coming together.

Look, they're almost holding hands!

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#3,531
#3,531
It will be interesting to see what the government does here. #Donetsk

Ukraine tycoon pleads for city's safety after rebels vow to make stand

Ukraine's richest man pleaded with the government on Monday not to bomb Donetsk, a city of a million people where hundreds of heavily armed pro-Russian rebels have vowed to make a stand after losing control of their bastion in the town of Slaviansk.

The Kiev government has said it will act quickly to seize back more territory from rebels after re-taking Slaviansk in what President Petro Poroshenko called a turning point in the three-month conflict against pro-Russian fighters in the east.
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#3,535
#3,535
Velo Vol said:
A siege, apparently.

Not sure how you flush out a few hundred fighters in a city of a million that way, but what do I know?

Someone's not too happy about it.

Br8d78eCQAAlCW8.png:large


Help has arrived!
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My first reaction was obviously what a bunch of asses to blow up a bridge with cars passing underneath and a clearly commercial train above. My second reaction was, "Who the hell would drive underneath that thing?" There are cars driving underneath it to the left. Braver than me, I guess. That or just much dumber. One of the two for sure.
 
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#3,537
#3,537
I like the shots of bombed buildings it shows while quoting the army guy talking about things not being destroyed.

As is the case far too often, civilians/bystanders have paid the price for a conflict they had nothing to do with.
 
#3,539
#3,539
Velo Vol said:
I like the shots of bombed buildings it shows while quoting the army guy talking about things not being destroyed.

As is the case far too often, civilians/bystanders have paid the price for a conflict they had nothing to do with.
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Grand Vol said:
I think Vice has had about the best coverage of what's going on over there.
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I love studying weaponry, the military, and wars. I love watching YouTube videos of guys running around shooting at one another in war zones. But there's a human element that these things always leave out. And here it is.

I tell ya, when they interviewed the 90 year old woman whose husband died decades ago, that was something. When she was talking about all the people she knew who had died in the conflict and then it cut away to a picture of her and her husband from years ago, I about lost it.

Simon Ostrovsky is a very young reporter. I think he's only 31 or 32 or so. If he doesn't win a Pulitzer by the time he decides to call it a day, I will be very surprised. He will do many more great things. And as far as VICE is concerned, best damn alternative news site I know.
 
#3,540
#3,540
volprof said:
I tell ya, when they interviewed the 90 year old woman whose husband died decades ago, that was something. When she was talking about all the people she knew who had died in the conflict and then it cut away to a picture of her and her husband from years ago, I about lost it.
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I've got distant relatives over there (mostly in the western part of the country, I think) I imagine some may be like her.

I've thought about trying to connect with someone there, but not knowing the language is a problem.


Simon Ostrovsky is a very young reporter. I think he's only 31 or 32 or so.
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Wow, you're right. Based on his appearance, I would have guessed he is around 45. Guess they age quicker over there.
 
#3,541
#3,541
Have the sanctions worked to deter Russia? Only the Kremlin (or perhaps only Putin) can say for sure, but they have taken a fair-sized chunk out of the Russian economy:

Russia's economy is stagnating as data showed on Wednesday that capital worth $75 billion has left the country so far this year following sanctions on Moscow over its involvement in Ukraine.
. . .
But central bank data on capital flight showed investors are concerned about the state of the $2 trillion a year economy. Though the outflow slowed in the second quarter, the $75 billion that left in the six months to June already surpassed the $62.7 billion capital flight seen for the whole of last year.
. . .
The central bank has said about $90 billion of capital could leave Russia this year. The World Bank and the International Monetary Fund have said capital flight may exceed $100 billion this year if the Ukraine crisis continues.
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On the other hand, the Russian stock market and the ruble both rebounded from their lows, so it's a mixed picture.
 
#3,542
#3,542
This is remarkable, if true.

The betrayal, it seems, may be even nastier than that. According to a Ukrainian security council spokesman, the Russians have sealed their border, shutting down three key crossings. Not only are they not letting men and materiel into Ukraine from Russia, but they're also blocking men and materiel from flowing in the opposite direction. That is, the very men that Moscow has riled up to the extent that they have taken up arms and are ready to die in order to get the region out of Ukraine and into Russia are not welcome to seek refuge in Russia. (Not even, it seems, the ones originally from Russia.) A group of 300 fleeing rebels reportedly even came under fire by the Russians as they tried to escape into Russia.
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Nice to have those guys in your corner.
 
#3,545
#3,545
Apparently today has been a very bad day for the rebels. There is apparent in-fighting, and they even seem to be splitting. The Vostok Battalion has apparently split from Girkin's (Strelkov) wing and are holed up in another city outside Donetsk (where Girkin is). Also, dozens of fighters have apparently just abandoned their posts and their weapons/fatigues. Many are reportedly in despair due to Russia's inaction and feel betrayed.

This all coupled with Velo's earlier post about the border.
 
#3,546
#3,546
volprof said:
Apparently today has been a very bad day for the rebels. There is apparent in-fighting, and they even seem to be splitting. The Vostok Battalion has apparently split from Girkin's (Strelkov) wing and are holed up in another city outside Donetsk (where Girkin is). Also, dozens of fighters have apparently just abandoned their posts and their weapons/fatigues. Many are reportedly in despair due to Russia's inaction and feel betrayed.

This all coupled with Velo's earlier post about the border.
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Good bunch of terrorists and insurgents.
 
#3,547
#3,547
volprof said:
Apparently today has been a very bad day for the rebels. There is apparent in-fighting, and they even seem to be splitting. The Vostok Battalion has apparently split from Girkin's (Strelkov) wing and are holed up in another city outside Donetsk (where Girkin is). Also, dozens of fighters have apparently just abandoned their posts and their weapons/fatigues. Many are reportedly in despair due to Russia's inaction and feel betrayed.
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If the Russians are shutting down the supply stream, or worse yet, actually sealing the border, things are not going to go well for the separatists.

Wild guess, but based on the polling I've seen I suspect the militants may have hardcore support of 10% of the locals, and lukewarm support of 20%-30%.

I bet quite a few Eastern Ukrainians who are otherwise pro-Russian have grown weary of the separatists shenanigans.
 
#3,548
#3,548
volprof said:
My first reaction was obviously what a bunch of asses to blow up a bridge with cars passing underneath and a clearly commercial train above. My second reaction was, "Who the hell would drive underneath that thing?" There are cars driving underneath it to the left. Braver than me, I guess. That or just much dumber. One of the two for sure.
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If I really had to be somewhere and the thing appeared stable for the past several minutes I'd do it but I'd do it really fast. :)

So it seems as though the Ukrainian army is slowly winning areas back.

Will they ever get Crimea back in the future?
 
#3,550
#3,550
coug said:
If I really had to be somewhere and the thing appeared stable for the past several minutes I'd do it but I'd do it really fast. :)

So it seems as though the Ukrainian army is slowly winning areas back.

Will they ever get Crimea back in the future?
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That would be a definitive "no." Russia has been wanting Crimea back ever since the fall of the Soviet Union. During those polka-dancing Boris days, I think it was mostly an idle fancy. I'm convinced, however, that Putin made it a pet project, and he succeeded. Although I'm still not sure the plan has gone fully to his liking. I think he's lost some ground too (figuratively).

If you'd like a better grasp on what it may be that makes Putin tick as a geopolitical actor, you might check some of the following links out:

Eurasianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Aleksandr Dugin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

BBC News - Russian nationalist thinker Dugin sees war with Ukraine
 
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