Ukraine Protests

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#11,451
#11,451
Only a man as evil as Hitler could make some factions in our world today think that the war effort of Russia under Stalin, a nation that both initiated WWII in Europe and perpetuated its horrors (acting as an occupying victor, just like Nazi Germany would have done), is actually worthy of celebration.

Only a novice or a propagandist could believe such an honor is due.
 
#11,456
#11,456
volprof said:
Only a man as evil as Hitler could make some factions in our world today think that the war effort of Russia under Stalin, a nation that both initiated WWII in Europe and perpetuated its horrors (acting as an occupying victor, just like Nazi Germany would have done), is actually worthy of celebration.
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Who?
 
#11,460
#11,460
Rasputin_Vol said:
Please, show me the Allied assistance that Russia received in Stalingrad...
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Why don't you show me where the assistance wasn't used during the battle.

The Soviets downplayed every bit of assistance they got during WWII because it wasn't good for the home front. They wanted the propaganda victory and the Battle for Stalingrad was the biggest propaganda victory of the war. So you're not going to find much on the subject since they wanted it to be a pure Soviet victory instead of an Allied effort. And admitting they used Lend-Lease equipment would have undermined the "Soviet" efforts. And your comments parrot that very same ilk and are just as false at they were when uttered in 1942. Why is it the Soviets went to great lengths to hide the fact a number of their highest scoring fighter pilots flew American produced aircraft?

But you can't tell me none of the US equipment made its way to Stalingrad during the battle. Or during Operation Uranus that relieved the pressure on Stalingrad. Russian soldiers didn't dine on the food sent or get supported by any of the 10,000 aircraft sent to them or use the jeeps like this:

American aid

Or the use of P-40s:

The P-40 in Soviet Aviation

Or food:

U.S. Lend Lease Policy

Tell me again how nothing the US or the UK did to help the Soviets during Stalingrad?
 
#11,462
#11,462
Grand Vol said:
Why don't you show me where the assistance wasn't used during the battle.

The Soviets downplayed every bit of assistance they got during WWII because it wasn't good for the home front. They wanted the propaganda victory and the Battle for Stalingrad was the biggest propaganda victory of the war. So you're not going to find much on the subject since they wanted it to be a pure Soviet victory instead of an Allied effort. And admitting they used Lend-Lease equipment would have undermined the "Soviet" efforts. And your comments parrot that very same ilk and are just as false at they were when uttered in 1942. Why is it the Soviets went to great lengths to hide the fact a number of their highest scoring fighter pilots flew American produced aircraft?

But you can't tell me none of the US equipment made its way to Stalingrad during the battle. Or during Operation Uranus that relieved the pressure on Stalingrad. Russian soldiers didn't dine on the food sent or get supported by any of the 10,000 aircraft sent to them or use the jeeps like this:

American aid

Or the use of P-40s:

The P-40 in Soviet Aviation

Or food:

U.S. Lend Lease Policy

Tell me again how nothing the US or the UK did to help the Soviets during Stalingrad?
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The lend-lease program really didn't kick into full gear until the spring of 1943. There was some equipment that obviously got to Russia, so I can't say diddly squat... but I can say that whatever aide the allies gave Russia in Stalingrad was limited and minimal. The overwhelming majority of the water was being carried by the Russians. I don't think I've ever heard anyone outside of you try to diminish the Russian victory there or the importance of that battle towards the outcome of the war. So I guess the Russians can thank the Yanks for a few Jeeps and trucks. Whoa...

Can't you just give credit where credit is due and move on?
 
#11,463
#11,463
Rasputin_Vol said:
The lend-lease program really didn't kick into full gear until the spring of 1943. There was some equipment that obviously got to Russia, so I can't say diddly squat... but I can say that whatever aide the allies gave Russia in Stalingrad was limited and minimal. The overwhelming majority of the water was being carried by the Russians. I don't think I've ever heard anyone outside of you try to diminish the Russian victory there or the importance of that battle towards the outcome of the war. So I guess the Russians can thank the Yanks for a few Jeeps and trucks. Whoa...

Can't you just give credit where credit is due and move on?
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<sigh>

I haven't attempted to minimize the Soviets at Stalingrad. As it arguably was the battle that changed the tide of the war against the Axis as a whole. Of course, leave it to you to go to the extremes of making **** up yet again. And for your information, major amounts of equipment in the Lend-Lease for the Soviets started in early 1942. The Persian corridor opened in mid 1943 which is obviously where you were mistaken. I understand you have a limited grasp of history so it's an honest mistake.

Why can't you give credit where credit is due and move on as well? The Allied contributions to the Soviets in the Lend-Lease very likely shortened the war for the Soviets in the East. I wonder how many Soviets would have starved at Stalingrad had shipments of food not been sent from the US.
 
#11,465
#11,465
Should be an obvious point but any war support to Russia at the time indirectly helped at Stalingrad by freeing up Soviet resources.
 
#11,467
#11,467
Rasputin_Vol said:
The lend-lease program really didn't kick into full gear until the spring of 1943. There was some equipment that obviously got to Russia, so I can't say diddly squat... but I can say that whatever aide the allies gave Russia in Stalingrad was limited and minimal. The overwhelming majority of the water was being carried by the Russians. I don't think I've ever heard anyone outside of you try to diminish the Russian victory there or the importance of that battle towards the outcome of the war. So I guess the Russians can thank the Yanks for a few Jeeps and trucks. Whoa...

Can't you just give credit where credit is due and move on?
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Can't you just stop trying to rationalize Russia's culpability in the war by portraying them as heroes and move on?
 
#11,470
#11,470
I got called "Propaganda Warrior" on Twitter because I questioned the appropriateness of parading modern weapons to commemorate WWII.

Ouch.
 
#11,471
#11,471
With Victory Day weekend now over in Russia, I think the next month will be an interesting one to keep an eye on.

A major "coincidental" renewal of hostilities within the next month would not surprise me at all.
 
#11,473
#11,473
volprof said:
A major "coincidental" renewal of hostilities within the next month would not surprise me at all.
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Maybe this will fix things.

Kerry to Meet With Putin in Russia on Tuesday - WSJ

The two sides are expected to discuss Ukraine, Yemen, Iran and Syria, Russia’s RIA Novosti news agency reported, citing an unnamed diplomatic source, who also said that Russia hopes Mr. Kerry will bring “new proposals” for resolving the crisis in Ukraine. The source called his visit “important and symbolic” although no breakthrough is expected, according to RIA.
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Maybe not.
 
#11,475
#11,475
volprof said:
Good article.

Why Putin Treats Fantasy as History - Bloomberg View
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If you're revising the reality of what's happening today, it's not so difficult to do so for something 75 years ago.

I still think it odd that Germany and Russia get together to celebrate WWII.

CEpnZN-WEAAIGRB.jpg
 
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