Ukraine Protests

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#10,751
#10,751
CSpindizzy said:
Apparently at the FSB meeting, Putin and others are making claims the US is actively engaging in efforts to work with opposition groups to destabilize Russia in the next few elections. What a convenient excuse to discredit his opposition and label them traitors. He's pushing to crack down on NGO's and any other foreign entities as spies. Slowly slipping away. Opposition leaders killed, jailed, run out of the country, and now connected to the US to be discredited. One party. One leader.
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eh, we have kinda done the same. Don't support NSA or HS you must be working for the terrorists.
 
#10,752
#10,752
Question I will ask again.

If the US arms Kiev and they still get their heads handed to them, then what? Do we admit defeat or do escalate it further?
 
#10,753
#10,753
Rasputin_Vol said:
Question I will ask again.

If the US arms Kiev and they still get their heads handed to them, then what? Do we admit defeat or do escalate it further?
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Unless Russia and her minions decide to break what they signed (which they already have multiple times) it should not come to that. If it came to the point of their heads handed to them it is a clear indication Russia is involved - which we already know. I do find it funny that Russia, who says they are not involved, is so determined to make sure Ukraine has no weapons to defend their sovereignty. Why is Russia against a nation being able to defend its borders? Why does Russia want a weak and unarmed neighbor?
 
#10,758
#10,758
Pacer92 said:
Puppet regime, advisors, troops, weapons...

Try again.
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The people elected this government. How is it a puppet regime? Advisors, troops and weapons? According to the Russian media we are sending them soon. They keep saying a certain Friday and then the next day change it to a following Friday. So are you saying we already have all that there? You may have better sources than the Russian media.
 
#10,759
#10,759
to answer Ras's question. I don't think we, the US, does anything extra, we provided arms because the country has been begging for it. However Ukraine would definitely have to give in to the rebel's demands.
 
#10,760
#10,760
CSpindizzy said:
Unless Russia and her minions decide to break what they signed (which they already have multiple times) it should not come to that. If it came to the point of their heads handed to them it is a clear indication Russia is involved - which we already know. I do find it funny that Russia, who says they are not involved, is so determined to make sure Ukraine has no weapons to defend their sovereignty. Why is Russia against a nation being able to defend its borders? Why does Russia want a weak and unarmed neighbor?
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It would be one thing if Ukraine was a friendly neighbor with weapons. But with Ukraine getting assistance from the US, that threatens Russia.

The US had no business getting involved in the Ukraine's affairs and overthrowing a an elected leader in Russia's backyard. It would be like Germany offering help to Mexico in WWI or The Soviets helping Cuba in the Cold War. The US didn't like that too well.
 
#10,762
#10,762
CSpindizzy said:
The people elected this government. How is it a puppet regime? Advisors, troops and weapons? According to the Russian media we are sending them soon. They keep saying a certain Friday and then the next day change it to a following Friday. So are you saying we already have all that there? You may have better sources than the Russian media.
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Besides the obvious US coup that overthrew Yanukovich..

http://rt.com/news/243937-hmmwv-humvee-ukraine-army/

Russia denounces arrival of U.S. military trainers in Ukraine - LA Times

US sending around 600 paratroopers to Ukraine to train troops | Fox News

Why do you keep denying facts?
 
#10,764
#10,764
Rasputin_Vol said:
Seems like we just have an unusual ability to arm criminals and bad guys. Either it shows incompetence or nefarious intent. Neither option makes me sleep any better.
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There's intent alright. Intent to create conflict after conflict to make gazillions for the military industrial complex.

Our foreign policy is a joke.
 
#10,766
#10,766
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#10,767
#10,767
Pacer92 said:
There's intent alright. Intent to create conflict after conflict to make gazillions for the military industrial complex.

Our foreign policy is a joke.
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The Obama administration can't even negotiate a nuclear arms treaty with Iran yet you and others think they are capable of organizing a civil war by proxy in Ukraine with the purpose of crippling Putin's Russia.
 
#10,769
#10,769
Rasputin_Vol said:
It would be one thing if Ukraine was a friendly neighbor with weapons. But with Ukraine getting assistance from the US, that threatens Russia.

The US had no business getting involved in the Ukraine's affairs and overthrowing a an elected leader in Russia's backyard. It would be like Germany offering help to Mexico in WWI or The Soviets helping Cuba in the Cold War. The US didn't like that too well.
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They were a neutered neighbor. Russia took advantage of that. They invaded and stole land from that weakened neighbor. Russia had no business invading neighbors especially after pledging to respect this neighbor's borders.

The US has just as much right as Russia in being involved with Ukraine. The US is just as legally binding and committed as Russia is with Ukraine's well being. Still harping on that alleged coup that never happened? You still have not touched Putin admitting his invasion even before Yanukovich fled the country. Why have you ignored that story?

Going back through to correct your history...the US and Russia signed agreements on respecting Ukraine's borders INCLUDING Crimea. Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons and limited its conventional forces. Through these legal agreements Russia and the US both placed themselves as holding a vested interest in Ukraine's well being. Russia has NEVER minded the US involvement here. Russia never minded the US coming in to inspect Ukrainian forces OR when Lugar and Obama called for even deeper cuts in forces and equipment. So am I to now believe your line of thinking that the US suddenly came out of nowhere to "meddle" in Russia's backyard? And that Russia NOW cares about the US "meddling"? Both the US and Russia have been working inside Ukraine. Russia's "meddling" has actually surpassed the US involvement.

Russia has signed on to an agreement to keep Ukraine intact. Part of being intact is a respect for sovereignty and self defense. If Ukraine wishes to buy military equipment from the US, who is Russia to deny that? Russia should not be afraid of Ukraine invading them. Putin's "superior military" should have no fear for Ukraine merely wanting to train and equip its forces for securing its borders. A right to self defense and the means to do such is the means for peace here. Regardless of who Ukraine gets the weapons from, what does Russia care? What if Ukraine bought the weapons from China? Russia only wants a weak neighbor to take advantage of. This is how they got Crimea. They want an electoral process they can exploit. They want a weakened military they can manipulate. They want a divided nation they can get even more land from.

Like I've said to you before. Look at a score card here. Who is working to destabilize the region? Who is openly arming and supporting this war? Who is advising and equipping this conflict? Who has invaded another nation with armed forces and seized prisoners? Who has stolen military bases? Who has seized another nation's navy in vast numbers? Who has actually removed land from another nation? Who has used economic blackmail on another nation? Let's line up the scores and compare Russia and the US here.
 
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#10,770
#10,770
Pacer92 said:
Besides the obvious US coup that overthrew Yanukovich..

http://rt.com/news/243937-hmmwv-humvee-ukraine-army/

Russia denounces arrival of U.S. military trainers in Ukraine - LA Times

US sending around 600 paratroopers to Ukraine to train troops | Fox News

Why do you keep denying facts?
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Yeah, Nuland's phone call to meet with the opposition caused a coup. Helping to teach people ballot box security and election day processes overthrew Yanukovich. A few career election geeks caused a coup. Amazing. If its that easy to overthrow governments, the world is in trouble.

Let's look at a calendar here. Same thing applies to what I challenged Ras to. When did this conflict start? When did lethal weapons from the US arrive? When did non lethal weapons arrive? We're just now getting into the weapons game and we're dealing with Humvees. How long has Russia been playing this game? You really cannot even grasp basic facts and reality can you? Russia had troops on the ground ready to go. Putin was planning taking Crimea while Yanukovich was sitting in Kyiv. How should Yanukovich feel that his master was already planning to steal land from him before he was even "overthrown"?
 
#10,772
#10,772
Pacer92 said:
Besides the obvious US coup that overthrew Yanukovich..

http://rt.com/news/243937-hmmwv-humvee-ukraine-army/

Russia denounces arrival of U.S. military trainers in Ukraine - LA Times

US sending around 600 paratroopers to Ukraine to train troops | Fox News

Why do you keep denying facts?
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the first article is dated from yesterday. congratulations, after nearly two years of you making up stuff you finally have proof. that the whole world new about and was done out in the open and was actually asked for.

second article. training = practice, not fighting. no harm no foul.

third article, same as the second. everyone knew it was happening, we did it out in the open for everyone to see and only after the country begged and begged for it.
 
#10,773
#10,773
The heads of this whole "rebellion" are experts on these sort of covert operations sent from Moscow. The leaders of both "republics" were Russians sent from Moscow. The military advisors were all from Moscow - FSB and military backgrounds and not just 'freelancers' but top connected to the Kremlin. Borodai, Bez, Babay, Strelkov, etc. are all the guys who show up in these situations and set revolutions in motion on behalf of the Kremlin. The US is coming in a year later with equipment in a limited manner. We're still tripping over our shoelaces on sending military advisors to train. So again, if we're keeping score here....
 
#10,774
#10,774
LouderVol said:
the first article is dated from yesterday. congratulations, after nearly two years of you making up stuff you finally have proof. that the whole world new about and was done out in the open and was actually asked for.

second article. training = practice, not fighting. no harm no foul.

third article, same as the second. everyone knew it was happening, we did it out in the open for everyone to see and only after the country begged and begged for it.
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First off, the Ukraine ordeal is barely a year old.

Secondly, you continue to make excuses when fact is laid in front of you. Again, keep trying..
 
#10,775
#10,775
Pacer92 said:
First off, the Ukraine ordeal is barely a year old.

Secondly, you continue to make excuses when fact is laid in front of you. Again, keep trying..
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Facts like a simple calendar of when events transpired and who did those events? Got it. STILL not touching Vlad's Crimea invasion huh?

You continue to spin, lie, distort, and deny. What's your excuse when facts are laid in front of you?
 
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