Two Deep Depth Chart Released

#326
#326
volfannbama said:
Barnett played 13 games, Gaulden played 13 games, Vereen played 13 games, Moseley 13, Abernathy 12, TKJr 11, Vickers played 11 games....that's 7 of your 11 starters playing 86 of a possible 91 games between them.*

The defense was not exceptional for 1/3 of the season.
Click to expand...

Fatigue played a factor as well with those guy because we had very little depth behind them.
 
#327
#327
VFL-82-JP said:
Here's the thing, though. Get a good mental image of those seven lads, where they stand on the field at the start of each play. Got it? Can you see it, in your mind?

What's missing?

In your mind's eye, you should see a huge gaping hole in the middle of the field. The hole where the DTs and LBs go. The hole where opposing teams run the ball down your throat if you're not strong.

Look, I absolutely agree that more was wrong with our defense last fall than just injuries. We were too porous from the very beginning for it to be an all-injuries problem. Or even primarily injuries. There was more going on, more missing.

But in turn, you have got to acknowledge that injuries at the LB and DT positions absolutely decimated us in the gut of the defense. JRM...Kirkland...Tuttle...and KMac alone is a huge price to pay to the injury bug.

It's gonna severely affect a defense when you lose that much talent, all concentrated in one part of the field.

As a community, we ought to stop arguing the extremes of this question. No, it wasn't just injuries. But yes, injuries was a significant part, particularly as the year went on.

*shrug* arguing degrees of difference in opinion seems to me counter-intuitive, for folks who can acknowledge both sides.
Click to expand...

So then you rotate back to the fact that CBJ has either failed to recruit or develop enough talent to beat 5-6 sec bottomfeeders.

But somehow everything is different this year. All of the sudden we learned how to develop all this talent.
 
#329
#329
volfannbama said:
So then you rotate back to the fact that CBJ has either failed to recruit or develop enough talent to beat 5-6 sec bottomfeeders.

But somehow everything is different this year. All of the sudden we learned how to develop all this talent.
Click to expand...

For folks whose world comes only in six primary colors, sure. Just pin everything less than perfect on the boss. He is, after all, the one with ultimate responsibility.

But in the world of endless shades and tints, where complexity is acknowledged, nothing's quite that simple. And fault is not so flippantly assigned without truly understanding what you're seeing.

As for your last point, hope springs eternal. We're Vols fans. Of course we're going into each new season with hope. It's what fans do.

Go Vols!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#330
#330
VFL-82-JP said:
For folks whose world comes only in six primary colors, sure. Just pin everything less than perfect on the boss. He is, after all, the one with ultimate responsibility.

But in the world of endless shades and tints, where complexity is acknowledged, nothing's quite that simple. And fault is not so flippantly assigned without truly understanding what you're seeing.

Finally, hope springs eternal. We're Vols fans. Of course we're going into each new season with hope. It's what fans do.

Go Vols!
Click to expand...
I agree that the buck does stop with Jones in the end, no doubt. But it absolutely amazes how many people have written "Jones hasn't developed the linebackers."
There is an absolute truth in the head coach gets held accountable for all issues but I also feel "ultimate responsibility" has become a generic term for bashing and giving no deeper thought to an issue.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#331
#331
chargervol said:
I agree that the buck does stop with Jones in the end, no doubt. But it absolutely amazes how many people have written "Jones hasn't developed the linebackers."
There is an absolute truth in the head coach gets held accountable for all issues but I also feel "ultimate responsibility" has become a generic term for bashing and giving no deeper thought to an issue.
Click to expand...

Agree
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#332
#332
volfannbama said:
So then you rotate back to the fact that CBJ has either failed to recruit or develop enough talent to beat 5-6 sec bottomfeeders.

But somehow everything is different this year. All of the sudden we learned how to develop all this talent.
Click to expand...

Well we did bring in a new DL coach. Let's give him a chance and see what he can do before we string up Butch.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#334
#334
chargervol said:
I agree that the buck does stop with Jones in the end, no doubt. But it absolutely amazes how many people have written "Jones hasn't developed the linebackers."
There is an absolute truth in the head coach gets held accountable for all issues but I also feel "ultimate responsibility" has become a generic term for bashing and giving no deeper thought to an issue.
Click to expand...

Yep, I think it's really just laziness. Takes too much effort to look close, to sift through details. "The buck stops here," is such a tempting Easy Button.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#335
#335
VFL-82-JP said:
Yep, I think it's really just laziness. Takes too much effort to look close, to sift through details. "The buck stops here," is such a tempting Easy Button.
Click to expand...

Doesn't Jones choose and oversee the position coaches? It's not lazy to credit him for success or scrutinize him for failure. Comes with the territory.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#336
#336
VFL-82-JP said:
Yep, I think it's really just laziness. Takes too much effort to look close, to sift through details. "The buck stops here," is such a tempting Easy Button.
Click to expand...

As the head coach he's ultimately responsible for every nook and cranny of the program. If we're sitting in year 5, and we have a bunch of linebackers on the roster, which we do, some who came to the program very highly rated, which many of them were......and losing one linebacker completely throws the position into chaos, which it evidently has, who's ultimately responsible for it? Obviously, imho, the linebacker coach is culprit number one, but he only works at the pleasure of his head coach....if he's not getting his guys ready to play, in year 5 with all the players he has at his disposal, and it sure looks like Thig is struggling mightily in this area, then eventually it comes back to Jones. And saying so isn't lazy, it's saying it like it is JP.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#337
#337
KBVol said:
As the head coach he's ultimately responsible for every nook and cranny of the program. If we're sitting in year 5, and we have a bunch of linebackers on the roster, which we do, some who came to the program very highly rated, which many of them were......and losing one linebacker completely throws the position into chaos, which it evidently has, who's ultimately responsible for it? Obviously, imho, the linebacker coach is culprit number one, but he only works at the pleasure of his head coach....if he's not getting his guys ready to play, in year 5 with all the players he has at his disposal, and it sure looks like Thig is struggling mightily in this area, then eventually it comes back to Jones. And saying so isn't lazy, it's saying it like it is JP.
Click to expand...

Serious question not being snide is the "chaos" = angry posters?
I proposed that Butch hired who he could and has been replacing them steadily and Thig is probably next, I consider that an action being taken to rectify the situation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#338
#338
KBVol said:
As the head coach he's ultimately responsible for every nook and cranny of the program. If we're sitting in year 5, and we have a bunch of linebackers on the roster, which we do, some who came to the program very highly rated, which many of them were......and losing one linebacker completely throws the position into chaos, which it evidently has, who's ultimately responsible for it? Obviously, imho, the linebacker coach is culprit number one, but he only works at the pleasure of his head coach....if he's not getting his guys ready to play, in year 5 with all the players he has at his disposal, and it sure looks like Thig is struggling mightily in this area, then eventually it comes back to Jones. And saying so isn't lazy, it's saying it like it is JP.
Click to expand...

I often disagree with you. But, you nailed it with this post. Losing one player in year 5 shouldn't derail our defense. Hopefully it doesn't. We'll see...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#339
#339
TJ1985 said:
Doesn't Jones choose and oversee the position coaches? It's not lazy to credit him for success or scrutinize him for failure. Comes with the territory.
Click to expand...

KBVol said:
As the head coach he's ultimately responsible for every nook and cranny of the program.
Click to expand...

Already acknowledged, guys, just a few posts above yours. Yes, he has ultimate responsibility.

But the truth is almost never that simple. If you really want to understand what happened, you do NOT push that Easy Button.

I'm all for you tossing shade on the head coach because he's in charge. That's fine. But if you don't then start looking for the detailed reasons, the actual cause and effect, yes, it's laziness.

I'm not faulting you for that. You spend your free time however you like; you don't have to become a football analyst. Just saying, there's a much more accurate and detailed answer out there somewhere. And by blaming the boss, you're choosing not to figure out what it is.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#340
#340
chargervol said:
Serious question not being snide is the "chaos" = angry posters?
I proposed that Butch hired who he could and has been replacing them steadily and Thig is probably next, I consider that an action being taken to rectify the situation.
Click to expand...

Angry posters?? Not sure what you mean by that.
And you're completely speculating about Thig being next on the chopping block which means he's currently "rectifying the situation"....quite a leap imo, and either way, it does us no good in 2017.

Ftr, I equate "chaos" with our linebackers as starting a physically limited walkon who's clearly not a top notch SEC player at Middle linebacker, despite all the supposed outstanding recruiting the last 4 years....and backing him up with a highly regarded/rated player who's never scratched the surface of his expectations and is essentially a 4 star athlete who became a special teams player.

Additionally, we have no other proven, high level SEC linebackers at the OLB position....we have a couple of serviceable guys who are pretty limited similar to Jumper in the middle, but that's it. Unless a Sapp or Bituli or Ignont really step up and surprise this year, I would describe our linebacker situation "in chaos" with the loss of our most talented guy in DKJr. Perhaps you wouldn't choose those words to describe the situation, it's the first words that came to mind, so I used them. We were already in trouble with the position group before losing Kirkland, now, well, it's anybody's guess.

If that sounds like an angry poster then so be it I guess. To me, it's a pretty rational, reasonable assessment of where we are with the position....and I just don't think we should be in this position in year 5 of Jones' (and Thig's) tenure.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#341
#341
VFL-82-JP said:
Already acknowledged, guys, just a few posts above yours. Yes, he has ultimate responsibility.

But the truth is almost never that simple. If you really want to understand what happened, you do NOT push that Easy Button.

I'm all for you tossing shade on the head coach because he's in charge. That's fine. But if you don't then start looking for the detailed reasons, the actual cause and effect, yes, it's laziness.

I'm not faulting you for that. You spend your free time however you like; you don't have to become a football analyst. Just saying, there's a much more accurate and detailed answer out there somewhere. And by blaming the boss, you're choosing not to figure out what it is.
Click to expand...

JP, I usually agree with you, especially with your support of Jones. It's good as fans to discuss as intelligently as possible all aspects of our team. I know there are multiple variables that affect the team's play, some of which are attrition, graduating players, and injuries. Some players come in highly touted and just never pan out. There may be other things going on behind the scenes that none of us are aware of. In the grand scheme of things, though, Jones is the man, plain and simple. Let's repeat this...it's year 5. If the team is being run like we all want, we should not have a depth issue before we play the first game. Losing one player, as I said earlier, shouldn't derail our season.

I support Jones. I think he's done a good job. We've made progress since he's been here. I hope we have a great season and our young guys step up. He's a great recruiter. But, I'm not going to make excuses for him. If our defense performs like it did last year, if our lb play is terrible, it's on Jones.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#342
#342
KBVol said:
Angry posters?? Not sure what you mean by that.
And you're completely speculating about Thig being next on the chopping block which means he's currently "rectifying the situation"....quite a leap imo, and either way, it does us no good in 2017.

Ftr, I equate "chaos" with our linebackers as starting a physically limited walkon who's clearly not a top notch SEC player at Middle linebacker, despite all the supposed outstanding recruiting the last 4 years....and backing him up with a highly regarded/rated player who's never scratched the surface of his expectations and is essentially a 4 star athlete who became a special teams player.

Additionally, we have no other proven, high level SEC linebackers at the OLB position....we have a couple of serviceable guys who are pretty limited similar to Jumper in the middle, but that's it. Unless a Sapp or Bituli or Ignont really step up and surprise this year, I would describe our linebacker situation "in chaos" with the loss of our most talented guy in DKJr. Perhaps you wouldn't choose those words to describe the situation, it's the first words that came to mind, so I used them. We were already in trouble with the position group before losing Kirkland, now, well, it's anybody's guess.

If that sounds like an angry poster then so be it I guess. To me, it's a pretty rational, reasonable assessment of where we are with the position....and I just don't think we should be in this position in year 5 of Jones' (and Thig's) tenure.
Click to expand...

I didn't call YOU angry, I simply asked a question.
But then again, that's exactly what I did last time, ask you a question. And I believe you asked me what my problem was and suggested I jump into things that aren't my business.
Maybe I am doing this whole internet forum thing wrong but I thought if you make a public comment and people aren't sure what you mean, they could ask.

I'm basing Jones replacing coaches who have underperformed off of history and the limit that UT has always set for what they will pay each year. Doesn't seem that out of line giving you all are discussing who to blame for the poor performance of MLB's in 2017 games that haven't been played yet.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#343
#343
TJ1985 said:
JP, I usually agree with you, especially with your support of Jones. It's good as fans to discuss as intelligently as possible all aspects of our team. I know there are multiple variables that affect the team's play, some of which are attrition, graduating players, and injuries. Some players come in highly touted and just never pan out. There may be other things going on behind the scenes that none of us are aware of. In the grand scheme of things, though, Jones is the man, plain and simple. Let's repeat this...it's year 5. If the team is being run like we all want, we should not have a depth issue before we play the first game. Losing one player, as I said earlier, shouldn't derail our season.

I support Jones. I think he's done a good job. We've made progress since he's been here. I hope we have a great season and our young guys step up. He's a great recruiter. But, I'm not going to make excuses for him. If our defense performs like it did last year, if our lb play is terrible, it's on Jones.
Click to expand...

Absolutely agree with you here, TJ. It is year 5. Time to be coming to holistic conclusions about our head coach and his staff. Let's see how we do.
 
#346
#346
VFL-82-JP said:
Yep, I think it's really just laziness. Takes too much effort to look close, to sift through details. "The buck stops here," is such a tempting Easy Button.
Click to expand...

Ive been one of the biggest advocates that there will not be much of a drop off with Jumper and provided stats to back it up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#347
#347
VFL-82-JP said:
Already acknowledged, guys, just a few posts above yours. Yes, he has ultimate responsibility.

But the truth is almost never that simple. If you really want to understand what happened, you do NOT push that Easy Button.

I'm all for you tossing shade on the head coach because he's in charge. That's fine. But if you don't then start looking for the detailed reasons, the actual cause and effect, yes, it's laziness.
Click to expand...

I've tried this approach before. You just love Butch, Nancy.

chargervol said:
I didn't call YOU angry, I simply asked a question.
But then again, that's exactly what I did last time, ask you a question. And I believe you asked me what my problem was and suggested I jump into things that aren't my business.
Maybe I am doing this whole internet forum thing wrong but I thought if you make a public comment and people aren't sure what you mean, they could ask.
Click to expand...

"Don't you question me"
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#350
#350
VFL-82-JP said:
I think my name is Barb, not Nancy. I have it from an authoritative source, Bearded. :)
Click to expand...

As far as the discussion on Butch being ultimately responsible, I would think we all understand that and shouldn't have to repeat it several times in the same post to make it clear. But it seems if you offer anything other than that, it's not "discussing", it's making excuses.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.
Advertisement



Back
Top