Two Deep Depth Chart Released

#303
#303
volfannbama said:
Its tough to face facts we dont like sometimes, i understand.
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Oops! You were serious! This is awkward. My fault. I'm just not adjusted to these "alternative facts" that became legitimate arguments these days.

Let's use verifiable facts. UT shut Fla down before halftime and didn't take their foot off their neck til garbage time in the fourth. Same with VT. Their fans were hitting the exits before the third quarter was over. Those five fumbles were caused by our D. They didn't run four hand offs and a jet sweep to our players.

D sucked and was the reason we didn't win the East last year, but your analysis of the first four games makes all your comments questionable. At least as far as documented, recorded, viewable Facts are concerned.
 
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#304
#304
Orange_Crush said:
App St. ran all over us like we were Ga Southern. The defense was never really good, even before injuries. The games you list were shut down mainly due to Stoops' in-game adjustments, I think, than player development and skill.
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292 total yards and 13 points is running all over us like we were GA Southern?

And it's Shoop. Not Stoops.
 
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#305
#305
MyBloodRunnethOrange said:
292 total yards and 13 points is running all over us like we were GA Southern?

And it's Shoop. Not Stoops.
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Hey... If you're calling 300 yards to Appy St a good game, more power to ya. I was just pointing out the D struggled from the get-go last year.

(184 rushing yards at 4.3 yards per attempt. They out-rushed us for both total yards and YPA.)

And my bad on Shoop's name.
 
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#306
#306
Orange_Crush said:
Hey... If you're calling 300 yards to Appy St a good game, more power to ya. I was just pointing out the D struggled from the get-go last year.

(184 rushing yards at 4.3 yards per attempt. They out-rushed us for both total yards and YPA.)

And my bad on Shoop's name.
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I didn't say it was good. It isn't "running all over us" either.
 
#307
#307
66volfan said:
Oops! You were serious! This is awkward. My fault. I'm just not adjusted to these "alternative facts" that became legitimate arguments these days.

Let's use verifiable facts. UT shut Fla down before halftime and didn't take their foot off their neck til garbage time in the fourth. Same with VT. Their fans were hitting the exits before the third quarter was over. Those five fumbles were caused by our D. They didn't run four hand offs and a jet sweep to our players.

D sucked and was the reason we didn't win the East last year, but your analysis of the first four games makes all your comments questionable. At least as far as documented, recorded, viewable Facts are concerned.
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Your verifiable facts:
1. UT shut down Florida before halftime: The score going into half time was 21-3
2. Those five fumbles were caused by the D. According to the ESPN recap Kendall Vickers was the only player given credit for a forced fumble (10:44 to go in the 4th).

So there are the verifiable facts. Other verifiable facts:
1. VT Had 186 rushing yards and 214 passing yards.
2. Allowing teams to go up by 14 and 21 in the first four games, is not good defense in the first four games.
3. App St. 184 rushing yards.
4. Ohio 230 yards passing, 88 rushing, one receiver had 156.

So there you go, glad I could help you verify the facts.
 
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#308
#308
the offense didn't help much in those games either. lot's of mental errors, drops, penalties, turnovers etc, etc, etc.....we couldn't get out of our own way with the ball in those first 4-5 games. put the defense in some bad spots, and defense didn't hold up their end of the bargain....until it did in spurts in each of those games. we never saw this team look as good as it did as a total unit against FL or VT in the 2nd halves. that was the anomaly.

assigning blame is pointless. at the beginning of the year, we were a slow starting offensive team that didn't help our defense, and had to dig out of holes.

at the end of the season we were a decimated defense that got no help from the offense (ball control wise anyway) that had to outscore the opponent.

complimentary football went out the window last year.
 
#309
#309
jakez4ut said:
the offense didn't help much in those games either. lot's of mental errors, drops, penalties, turnovers etc, etc, etc.....we couldn't get out of our own way with the ball in those first 4-5 games. put the defense in some bad spots, and defense didn't hold up their end of the bargain....until it did in spurts in each of those games. we never saw this team look as good as it did as a total unit against FL or VT in the 2nd halves. that was the anomaly.

assigning blame is pointless. at the beginning of the year, we were a slow starting offensive team that didn't help our defense, and had to dig out of holes.

at the end of the season we were a decimated defense that got no help from the offense (ball control wise anyway) that had to outscore the opponent.

complimentary football went out the window last year.
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Yeah the point i make, is we were not that good before the injuries as proven by the play prior to those injuries.
Always curious to me though he how we spank a 9-3 Nebraska team, with the same players that played against 5win Vandy?
 
#310
#310
volfannbama said:
Yeah the point i make, is we were not that good before the injuries as proven by the play prior to those injuries.
Always curious to me though he how we spank a 9-3 Nebraska team, with the same players that played against 5win Vandy?
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we had a few guys back for Nebraska, and a month to prepare, and Neb was missing i think 2 key offensive weapons.
 
#312
#312
volfannbama said:
Yeah the point i make, is we were not that good before the injuries as proven by the play prior to those injuries.
Always curious to me though he how we spank a 9-3 Nebraska team, with the same players that played against 5win Vandy?
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what's funny is that the reasons we weren't very good on defense earl in the season are fairly different than the reasons we weren't later in the season.

can you imagine if the offenses that showed up against aTm, KY and MO played that way the first 4 games? and how that would help a defense?

what might have been.......
 
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#317
#317
volfannbama said:
Just when i thought you finally quit replying to me.
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As long as you're a source of mirth?
never-gif-29.gif
 
#318
#318
volfannbama said:
Your verifiable facts:
1. UT shut down Florida before halftime: The score going into half time was 21-3


21 with over 5 minutes left in the half. They scored again with a little over 4 minutes left in the game. They had almost as many punting yards as total offense in that game. Not sure of exact figure but I think less than 10 total yards in the 3rd quarter.
See how silly your argument is when we use real stats and leave opinion out of it.
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#319
#319
66volfan said:
volfannbama said:
Your verifiable facts:
1. UT shut down Florida before halftime: The score going into half time was 21-3


21 with over 5 minutes left in the half. They scored again with a little over 4 minutes left in the game. They had almost as many punting yards as total offense in that game. Not sure of exact figure but I think less than 10 total yards in the 3rd quarter.
See how silly your argument is when we use real stats and leave opinion out of it.
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Your verifiable fact was that Tennessee shut Florida down before halftime. The score going into halftime was 21-3. Florida had an 8 play 80 yard drive from 8:49 to 5:12 to go in the quarter. They had one more drive that quarter that went that went 4 plays 27 yards and included a 20 yard pass. They gained 12 yards rushing but had a penalty and punted.

So forcing someone to punt once after they scored 21 points is your defintion of shutting them down? Interesting.
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#320
#320
volfannbama said:
66volfan said:
Your verifiable fact was that Tennessee shut Florida down before halftime. The score going into halftime was 21-3. Florida had an 8 play 80 yard drive from 8:49 to 5:12 to go in the quarter. They had one more drive that quarter that went that went 4 plays 27 yards and included a 20 yard pass. They gained 12 yards rushing but had a penalty and punted.

So forcing someone to punt once after they scored 21 points is your defintion of shutting them down? Interesting.
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Hey brother, you argue relentlessly. You just don't football too good. I've enjoyed the back and forth and thank you for it. This has just gotten ignorant now.
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#322
#322
KBVol said:
Not particularly good.

-App State had a 100 rusher against us
-VaTech had 21 first downs and 400 yards of total offense, and a 100 yard rusher. Thank goodness they imploded with all the turnovers
-Ohio had a receiver go for 150+ yds
-Florida jumped out 21-0, defense looked horrific in the first half. Tightened up for a quarter and a half while our our offense took over the game. Defense allowed another 100+ yard receiver
-Allowec 24 first downs, right at 400 yards and 31 points to an average Ga team with a true freshman qb
-TAM put 45 points and right at 600 yards on us


And stop with the "we lost the entire starting lineup" on defense. We lost JRM and DKJr (who came back the last 6 games, played 8 games overall), Sutton for 5 games and Danny OBrien after the 6th game. We lost two backup DTs after the midpoint of the season and a 3rd string linebacker in Sapp.

Barnett played 13 games, Gaulden played 13 games, Vereen played 13 games, Moseley 13, Abernathy 12, TKJr 11, Vickers played 11 games....that's 7 of your 11 starters playing 86 of a possible 91 games between them.

Did injuries hurt? Of course they did. But it's beyond lazy and short sighted to blame the failings of last year's defense on just the injuries. Florida was missing 7 starters when they went to LSU late in the year to close out the SECe division title, didn't seem to bother them, they found a way, while having to play an extra road game. Conversely, well, we know what happened with our guys.....
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Thanks for cherry picking things you didn't like about each game, but here are facts that mattered in each game...

- App St scored 0 points in the final 2 quarters and overtime
- VT scored 10 points over the final 3 quarters including a garbage time TD
- Ohio scored 7 in the second half

- All three of those games our offense did not carry its weight

- UF scored 7 in the final two quarters, and the lone score came in garbage time.


After UF the injuries started to become overwhelming, but it remains a fact that during the first 1/3 of our season we were exceptional on defense, especially after halftime adjustments. Ignore it and explain it away however you want, but those are the facts.
 
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#323
#323
K-town Vol Fan said:
I dont get you. In one thread you are bashing coaches for "wasting talent" and not playing the players they should be (most of which players we have never seen play) and then in another thread you say we have top 10 defense and are going to win a natty. How can you believe both of those things to be true?
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He doesn't. He is a troll and that's what trolls do to elicit a response.. Judging by the ridiculous amount of people who quote/argue with him, he does it quite well.....
 
#324
#324
OHvol40 said:
Thanks for cherry picking things you didn't like about each game, but here are facts that mattered in each game...

- App St scored 0 points in the final 2 quarters and overtime
- VT scored 10 points over the final 3 quarters including a garbage time TD
- Ohio scored 7 in the second half

- All three of those games our offense did not carry its weight

- UF scored 7 in the final two quarters, and the lone score came in garbage time.


After UF the injuries started to become overwhelming, but it remains a fact that during the first 1/3 of our season we were exceptional on defense, especially after halftime adjustments. Ignore it and explain it away however you want, but those are the facts.
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Barnett played 13 games, Gaulden played 13 games, Vereen played 13 games, Moseley 13, Abernathy 12, TKJr 11, Vickers played 11 games....that's 7 of your 11 starters playing 86 of a possible 91 games between them.*

The defense was not exceptional for 1/3 of the season.
 
#325
#325
volfannbama said:
Barnett played 13 games, Gaulden played 13 games, Vereen played 13 games, Moseley 13, Abernathy 12, TKJr 11, Vickers played 11 games....that's 7 of your 11 starters playing 86 of a possible 91 games between them.*

The defense was not exceptional for 1/3 of the season.
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Here's the thing, though. Get a good mental image of those seven lads, where they stand on the field at the start of each play. Got it? Can you see it, in your mind?

What's missing?

In your mind's eye, you should see a huge gaping hole in the middle of the field. The hole where the DTs and LBs go. The hole where opposing teams run the ball down your throat if you're not strong.

Look, I absolutely agree that more was wrong with our defense last fall than just injuries. We were too porous from the very beginning for it to be an all-injuries problem. Or even primarily injuries. There was more going on, more missing.

But in turn, you have got to acknowledge that injuries at the LB and DT positions absolutely decimated us in the gut of the defense. JRM...Kirkland...Tuttle...and KMac alone is a huge price to pay to the injury bug.

It's gonna severely affect a defense when you lose that much talent, all concentrated in one part of the field.

As a community, we ought to stop arguing the extremes of this question. No, it wasn't just injuries. But yes, injuries was a significant part, particularly as the year went on.

*shrug* arguing degrees of difference in opinion seems to me just a time sink, for folks who can acknowledge both sides.
 
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