TrumPutinGate

#201
#201
Obsessed said:
Because it's BS. China isn't going to mess with us.
My comment was tongue in cheek.

Hillary has already tried to give our country to China. She failed at that too.
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The men of 1913 also thought it impossible to ignite a massive war, because of interdependent economic systems expanding at the time.

Such men are fools now just as they were fools then. They stupidly ignore Thucydides's other two motivations - besides blind self-interest - for war: fear and honor. China has a leadership today that once upon a time were young boys being taken upon their fathers' and grandfathers' laps (assuming they do such things in China) and regaled about the glories of China's past and how there used to be just one, united China until the evil West and the evil Japanese took it away.

Those things are never forgotten, and if Trump is truly dumb enough to press that issue - especially by taking up Bolton's aim of stationing US military assets on Taiwan - then you and Donald will promptly get a good, heaping dose of reality.

In the Chinese mindset and worldview, this would be akin to China trying to stage its military assets in a secessionist Alaska or Hawaii.
 
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#202
#202
Obsessed said:
Because it's BS. China isn't going to mess with us.
My comment was tongue in cheek.

Hillary has already tried to give our country to China. She failed at that too.
Click to expand...

Believe that if you want. China plays non-zero-sum game when it comes to Taiwan. There is no middle ground. It is non-negotiable and if they aren't pushed back on the South China Sea it will be the same for that too.
 
#203
#203
volprof said:
The men of 1913 also thought it impossible to ignite a massive war, because of interdependent economic systems expanding at the time.

Such men are fools now just as they were fools then. They stupidly ignore Thucydides's other two motivations - besides blind self-interest - for war: fear and honor. China has a leadership today that once upon a time were young boys being taken upon their fathers' and grandfathers' laps (assuming they do such things in China) and regaled about the glories of China's past and how there used to be just one, united China until the evil West and the evil Japanese took it away.

Those things are never forgotten, and if Trump is truly dumb enough to press that issue - especially by taking up Bolton's aim of stationing US military assets on Taiwan - then you and Donald will promptly get a good, heaping dose of reality.

In the Chinese mindset and worldview, this would be akin to China trying to stage its military assets in a secessionist Alaska or Hawaii.
Click to expand...

Defensive Realism 101 :Situations where by the tools that one state uses to increase it security decreases the security of other states. This security dilemma causes states to worry about one another's future intentions and relative power.
 
#204
#204
Looks like Fareed has Stephen Cohen back on today.

I don't know why he tolerates that Putin scum. I can hardly even stand to look at his anti-American rear.

I imagine it must be like what it would be to have Pacer on a CNN panel, discussing Trump, Putin, and Russia, like he has a clue or something.
 
#205
#205
From the accounts I'm reading, it looks like it was in fact a staged Trump event yesterday at the CIA, as I suspected.

All press accounts (the few who were there) report that the 1980s Poison concert cheering was coming from a large Trump entourage. What CIA staffers were there simply applauded politely at appropriate times and mostly just listened without applause.

I am glad that Trump did this. This now means he has pretty much cemented his fate - if he hadn't already - and we are on the fast track to a President Pence.

CIA operatives, analysts, and veterans all watched that disgrace in front of one of our nation's most important memorials, and it will not be forgiven.

Donald, your nihilistic days of leading this nation into chaos for your Kremlin master are going to be very short indeed.
 
#206
#206
On a somewhat related note, Propaganda Minister Spicer looked like he was just learning how to wear his father's suit yesterday.

What a punk and a clown that guy is. Hopefully President Pence cans him very quickly.
 
#207
#207
volprof said:
It's almost like you want to be proven a fool time and again.

A fool about two months running and a fool for at least two more to come.
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There is only 1 true fool on this board, a couple that try hard but still only 1 cowardly fool.
 
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#208
#208
hog88 said:
There is only 1 true fool on this board, a couple that try hard but still only 1 cowardly fool.
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Surely you're not talking about yourself. Just because you were too much a coward to vote for either Clinton or Trump, even though it's clear you sympathize with Trump to the point of a flaw, doesn't mean you have no hope of ever maturing into a moral exemplar.

There's still hope for you.
 
#209
#209
volprof said:
Surely you're not talking about yourself. Just because you were too much a coward to vote for either Clinton or Trump, even though it's clear you sympathize with Trump to the point of a flaw, doesn't mean you have no hope of ever maturing into a moral exemplar.

There's still hope for you.
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I'm positive.
 
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#210
#210
volprof said:
From the accounts I'm reading, it looks like it was in fact a staged Trump event yesterday at the CIA, as I suspected.

All press accounts (the few who were there) report that the 1980s Poison concert cheering was coming from a large Trump entourage. What CIA staffers were there simply applauded politely at appropriate times and mostly just listened without applause.

I am glad that Trump did this. This now means he has pretty much cemented his fate - if he hadn't already - and we are on the fast track to a President Pence.

CIA operatives, analysts, and veterans all watched that disgrace in front of one of our nation's most important memorials, and it will not be forgiven.

Donald, your nihilistic days of leading this nation into chaos for your Kremlin master are going to be very short indeed.
Click to expand...

A memo was sent out to CIA employees saying that if they wanted to come they could. Not many showed up (CIA personnel were given the day off because of the high tempo of the transition). So they had to bus staffers in.
 
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#211
#211
hog88 said:
I'm positive.
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No, you're not.

People like Carlos and me, heck, even vile posters like 69, were at least willing to take a stand.

You, you'll watch the implosion and, come four years later (probably sooner), just distance yourself from it by claiming, "Well, I didn't vote for him," even though you only defended him practically every step of the way, slight pauses to accuse him of being a "liberal" when he rarely did something you didn't like aside.
 
#213
#213
Velo Vol said:
I LOLed at the side eye stare Julia Ioffe gave him.
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That guy is a complete moral derelict. I have no idea why Fareed keeps inviting him on. You can find strong critics of American foreign policy when it comes to Russia who don't sound at the same time like they're on the Kremlin payroll.
 
#214
#214
volprof said:
No, you're not.

People like Carlos and me, heck, even vile posters like 69, were at least willing to take a stand.

You, you'll watch the implosion and, come four years later (probably sooner), just distance yourself from it by claiming, "Well, I didn't vote for him," even though you only defended him practically every step of the way, slight pauses to accuse him of being a "liberal" when he rarely did something you didn't like aside.
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I think it says a lot about you that you consider voting for Hillary the most courageous thing you have ever done.
 
#215
#215
carlos86 said:
China plays non-zero-sum game when it comes to Taiwan. There is no middle ground. It is non-negotiable and if they aren't pushed back on the South China Sea it will be the same for that too.
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I think it's more complicated than that. And remember the relationship goes two ways between the two.
 
#216
#216
hog88 said:
I think it says a lot about you that you consider voting for Hillary the most courageous thing you have ever done.
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I never once said that.

I think it speaks volumes of you that you're now having to make up stuff to rationalize your moral cowardice.
 
#217
#217
So, I want all of us to run this through our minds:

Whatever is in his taxes, Donald Trump deemed it at the time more important to keep secret than to become President of the United States.

Whatever is in his taxes, President Donald Trump has now deemed it more important to remain hidden than to create much-needed transparency and openness with the American people, especially after what may possibly be the most disastrous first full day in office of any American president.

Run that through your minds for at least a second or two.
 
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#218
#218
volprof said:
I am glad that Trump did this. This now means he has pretty much cemented his fate - if he hadn't already - and we are on the fast track to a President Pence.

CIA operatives, analysts, and veterans all watched that disgrace in front of one of our nation's most important memorials, and it will not be forgiven.
Click to expand...

That's overly melodramatic, methinks.

And as I said, most CIA minds were likely already made up about him. A speech wasn't going to change that.
 
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#219
#219
volprof said:
I never once said that.

I think it speaks volumes of you that you're now having to make up stuff to rationalize your moral cowardice.
Click to expand...

You have definitely implied.

BTW what exactly is "moral cowardice"?
 
#220
#220
volprof said:
No, you're not.

People like Carlos and me, heck, even vile posters like 69, were at least willing to take a stand.

You, you'll watch the implosion and, come four years later (probably sooner), just distance yourself from it by claiming, "Well, I didn't vote for him," even though you only defended him practically every step of the way, slight pauses to accuse him of being a "liberal" when he rarely did something you didn't like aside.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the kind words!
 
#222
#222
hog88 said:
You have definitely implied.

BTW what exactly is "moral cowardice"?
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I've not got time for your Derrida routine today.

I'm putting you in time out. I'll consider getting back with you in a few days, when it's over.
 
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