TrumpPutingate III: the beginning of the end

#4,701
#4,701
Trump says there isn't chaos in the White House, 'only great energy'

President Donald Trump rebuffed claims Tuesday that his White House is in chaos amid reports of high-profile departures and discord within the top ranks of the West Wing.

"The new Fake News narrative is that there is CHAOS in the White House. Wrong! People will always come & go, and I want strong dialogue before making a final decision," Trump tweeted. "I still have some people that I want to change (always seeking perfection). There is no Chaos, only great Energy!"

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#4,708
#4,708
volinbham said:
Just for clarification are you saying that if a POTUS and team come up with a narrative that let's say is a lie and someone on the team (say the press secretary) makes the "lie" in a press conference or daily briefing that this is a crime?
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Nope, just when they maintain the story with a federal agent or while under oath.
 
#4,709
#4,709
hog88 said:
Well, lying to the press isn't a crime.
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That's true. It would only be obstruction if there was an effort to hinder investigation by government authorities, be it by misleading statements, agreeing to destroy or suppress evidence, that sort of thing.

There has been some public reporting of comments that would seem to support that. For example, hope Hicks comments about the emails not seeing the light of day. It doesn't matter if you are unsuccessful. You can still be charged with attempted obstruction if you made an effort to mislead or hide evidence. That may ultimately be where this ends up.
 
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#4,711
#4,711
Obsessed said:
Bought a new AR this morning. Adding to my collection.

Thought of you when I filled out the 4473. (And grinned)
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I went to the range about 2 weeks ago with my bro-in-law. On the way out he bought one as well. Great price. If I wouldn't have been flying home I would have bought one as well.
 
#4,713
#4,713
volinbham said:
You may want to check your own confusion level.

In the third debate Clinton claimed Putin was backing Trump and that he was doing so because he (Putin) wanted a puppet. Wonder why Hillary would claim Putin was backing Trump?

On Oct 31 the NYT ran a story that the FBI had been investigating Russian interference and any connections to the Trump campaign. The article goes on to discuss how Clinton supporters pushed for these investigations.

So indeed allegations and information about the investigation (which was grounded substantially in the dossier) were out in public prior to the election.
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For much of the summer, the F.B.I. pursued a widening investigation into a Russian role in the American presidential campaign. Agents scrutinized advisers close to Donald J. Trump, looked for financial connections with Russian financial figures, searched for those involved in hacking the computers of Democrats, and even chased a lead — which they ultimately came to doubt — about a possible secret channel of email communication from the Trump Organization to a Russian bank.

Law enforcement officials say that none of the investigations so far have found any conclusive or direct link between Mr. Trump and the Russian government. And even the hacking into Democratic emails, F.B.I. and intelligence officials now believe, was aimed at disrupting the presidential election rather than electing Mr. Trump.

The FBI would not even acknowledge there was an investigation. It was not until after the election that they even acknowledged they were investigating Trump associates. You laughed it off before the election and now you are trying to say "see I told you so". That's rich coming from someone that spews the same lines as "failing NYT" calling it fake news. Now we know that was false that the Russians were just trying to disrupt the election and in fact had skewed their efforts to help elect Trump.

From March 20, 2017: F.B.I. Is Investigating Trump’s Russia Ties, Comey Confirms - The New York Times

WASHINGTON — The F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, took the extraordinary step on Monday of announcing that the agency is investigating whether members of President Trump’s campaign colluded with Russia to influence the 2016 election.

Mr. Comey’s testimony before the House Intelligence Committee created a treacherous political moment for Mr. Trump, who has insisted that “Russia is fake news” that was cooked up by his political opponents to undermine his presidency. Mr. Comey placed a criminal investigation at the doorstep of the White House and said officers would pursue it “no matter how long that takes.”

Your type still say no collusion and no financial ties to Russia. That will also be proven false. To claim you knew they were investigating the Trump campaign before the election is B.S. Hindsight is great.
 
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#4,714
#4,714
Mick said:
For much of the summer, the F.B.I. pursued a widening investigation into a Russian role in the American presidential campaign. Agents scrutinized advisers close to Donald J. Trump, looked for financial connections with Russian financial figures, searched for those involved in hacking the computers of Democrats, and even chased a lead — which they ultimately came to doubt — about a possible secret channel of email communication from the Trump Organization to a Russian bank.

Law enforcement officials say that none of the investigations so far have found any conclusive or direct link between Mr. Trump and the Russian government. And even the hacking into Democratic emails, F.B.I. and intelligence officials now believe, was aimed at disrupting the presidential election rather than electing Mr. Trump.

The FBI would not even acknowledge there was an investigation. It was not until after the election that they even acknowledged they were investigating Trump associates. You laughed it off before the election and now you are trying to say "see I told you so". That's rich coming from someone that spews the same lines as "failing NYT" calling it fake news. Now we know that was false that the Russians were just trying to disrupt the election and in fact had skewed their efforts to help elect Trump.

From March 20, 2017: F.B.I. Is Investigating Trump’s Russia Ties, Comey Confirms - The New York Times

WASHINGTON — The F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, took the extraordinary step on Monday of announcing that the agency is investigating whether members of President Trump’s campaign colluded with Russia to influence the 2016 election.

Mr. Comey’s testimony before the House Intelligence Committee created a treacherous political moment for Mr. Trump, who has insisted that “Russia is fake news” that was cooked up by his political opponents to undermine his presidency. Mr. Comey placed a criminal investigation at the doorstep of the White House and said officers would pursue it “no matter how long that takes.”

Your type still say no collusion and no financial ties to Russia. That will also be proven false. To claim you knew they were investigating the Trump campaign before the election is B.S. Hindsight is great.
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What you've posted does not refute that talk of Russian collusion between Team Trump and Russia occurred before the election and that the oppo research was part of this. So you are wrong when you say it could not have effected the election.

I say no collusion based on the astounding lack of evidence (even Schiff says nothing so far). If evidence exists and is presented then I'll reassess. I've consistently said since the beginning of the matter that I'm skeptical but will be persuaded by actual evidence.

You on the other hand have said their is collusion even though no evidence has been presented. You claim the meeting with TrumpJr amounts to an election crime even though nothing of value was received and continue your unwillingness to admit that Team Clinton actually did receive something of value from a foreign source and as I've pointed out that information made it's way into the election PRIOR to the election.

I'm 100% fine with my level of objectivity on this matter - wonder if you can say the same.

FTR - I challenge you to find instances of me making comments of the "failing NYT" or calling it fake news.

There is no "I told you so" in my post. Simply pointing out that your claims were false.
 
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#4,715
#4,715
volinbham said:
What you've posted does not refute that talk of Russian collusion between Team Trump and Russia occurred before the election and that the oppo research was part of this. So you are wrong when you say it could not have effected the election.

I say no collusion based on the astounding lack of evidence (even Schiff says nothing so far). If evidence exists and is presented then I'll reassess. I've consistently said since the beginning of the matter that I'm skeptical but will be persuaded by actual evidence.

You on the other hand have said their is collusion even though no evidence has been presented. You claim the meeting with TrumpJr amounts to an election crime even though nothing of value was received and continue your unwillingness to admit that Team Clinton actually did receive something of value from a foreign source and as I've pointed out that information made it's way into the election PRIOR to the election.

I'm 100% fine with my level of objectivity on this matter - wonder if you can say the same.

FTR - I challenge you to find instances of me making comments of the "failing NYT" or calling it fake news.

There is no "I told you so" in my post. Simply pointing out that your claims were false.
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There were many that suspected it but was not confirmed until well after the election. That is a fact. Knowing and suspecting are two different things. I suspect the Trump Tower meeting was not about adoptions but I don't know. I do know they are investigating it though.
 
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#4,716
#4,716
Mick said:
There were many that suspected it but was not confirmed until well after the election. That is a fact. Knowing and suspecting are two different things. I suspect the Trump Tower meeting was not about adoptions but I don't know. I do know they are investigating it though.
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What was confirmed? That there was an investigation?

Seems irrelevant since the reporting of an investigation is sufficient to raise the specter of wrongdoing. The NYT didn't make it up - someone was leaking this to get into the public discussion

Another gem from the NYT article

Senator Harry Reid of Nevada, the minority leader, responded angrily on Sunday with a letter accusing the F.B.I. of not being forthcoming about Mr. Trump’s alleged ties with Moscow.

“It has become clear that you possess explosive information about close ties and coordination between Donald Trump, his top advisers, and the Russian government — a foreign interest openly hostile to the United States, which Trump praises at every opportunity,” Mr. Reid wrote. “The public has a right to know this information.”
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Hmmmm, wonder where Harry got this info. Surely none of this could have come from the dossier...
 
#4,717
#4,717
volinbham said:
What was confirmed? That there was an investigation?

Seems irrelevant since the reporting of an investigation is sufficient to raise the specter of wrongdoing. The NYT didn't make it up - someone was leaking this to get into the public discussion

Another gem from the NYT article



Hmmmm, wonder where Harry got this info. Surely none of this could have come from the dossier...
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I'm glad you suspected an investigation between Trump and Russia a couple weeks before the election. Most the regulars that post in this forum blew it off as fake news. So what do you think was discussed in the Trump Tower meeting? If you say dirt on Hillary we are on the same page and maybe a more productive exchange can take place between us. Otherwise you are defending morons.
 
#4,718
#4,718
Mick said:
I'm glad you suspected an investigation between Trump and Russia a couple weeks before the election. Most the regulars that post in this forum blew it off as fake news. So what do you think was discussed in the Trump Tower meeting? If you say dirt on Hillary we are on the same page and maybe a more productive exchange can take place between us. Otherwise you are defending morons.
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I didn't suspect until it was reported. I found out like everyone else did.

The point is that Team Clinton had already been pushing the narrative that Russia was interfering on the behalf of Trump then this comes out (urged on by Clinton surrogates) detailing an investigation and hinting at "explosive information" on collusion. Information that has yet to be verified.

I can only go on what has been made public. Don Jr. took the meeting on the promise of dirt on Hillary. Reporting has said that instead it was based around some legal dispute. Can you point to any reporting (not opinion) that actual dirt on Hillary was provided in that meeting?

OTOH we absolutely know that Team Clinton received 1) "dirt" on Trump (that has not been verified and much of which has been debunked), 2) much of the information was sourced from the Russian government and 3) that information made it's way into the public arena prior to the election (as I've documented).

So if we are all about facts here, to this point Team Clinton faces more evidence of wrongdoing than does Team Trump.

Mueller may change that situation when he reveals but to date we do have facts showing collusion between Team Clinton and the Russian government - it was simply laundered through a law firm, an oppo research group and an "informant".
 
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#4,719
#4,719
volinbham said:
I didn't suspect until it was reported. I found out like everyone else did.

The point is that Team Clinton had already been pushing the narrative that Russia was interfering on the behalf of Trump then this comes out (urged on by Clinton surrogates) detailing an investigation and hinting at "explosive information" on collusion. Information that has yet to be verified.

I can only go on what has been made public. Don Jr. took the meeting on the promise of dirt on Hillary. Reporting has said that instead it was based around some legal dispute. Can you point to any reporting (not opinion) that actual dirt on Hillary was provided in that meeting?

OTOH we absolutely know that Team Clinton received 1) "dirt" on Trump (that has not been verified and much of which has been debunked), 2) much of the information was sourced from the Russian government and 3) that information made it's way into the public arena prior to the election (as I've documented).

So if we are all about facts here, to this point Team Clinton faces more evidence of wrongdoing than does Team Trump.

Mueller may change that situation when he reveals but to date we do have facts showing collusion between Team Clinton and the Russian government - it was simply laundered through a law firm, an oppo research group and an "informant".
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The only dirt I know of about Hillary is the wikileaks emails. What could Trump campaign do with those if they were given to them? Absolutely nothing therefore they had to come out from a foreign source. It never was the objective to "get" the illegally hacked emails. It was about disseminating them.

As far as Clinton/Russia collusion you just went retard.
 
#4,720
#4,720
Mick said:
The only dirt I know of about Hillary is the wikileaks emails. What could Trump campaign do with those if they were given to them? Absolutely nothing therefore they had to come out from a foreign source. It never was the objective to "get" the illegally hacked emails. It was about disseminating them.

As far as Clinton/Russia collusion you just went retard.
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So nothing from the Don Jr. meeting - check

Your speculation is that Team Trump had something to do with Wikileaks but you don't know what they did - check

Who's gone full retard?

Now on to Clinton which parts are not true?
 
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#4,722
#4,722
Mick said:
The only dirt I know of about Hillary is the wikileaks emails. What could Trump campaign do with those if they were given to them? Absolutely nothing therefore they had to come out from a foreign source. It never was the objective to "get" the illegally hacked emails. It was about disseminating them.

As far as Clinton/Russia collusion you just went retard.
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Wonder how those emails were discovered?
 
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#4,723
#4,723
volinbham said:
So nothing from the Don Jr. meeting - check

Your speculation is that Team Trump had something to do with Wikileaks but you don't know what they did - check

Who's gone full retard?

Now on to Clinton which parts are not true?
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Seth Rich

His dad all but confirmed he was the leaker.
 
#4,724
#4,724
Vol0725 said:
More ties between Hillary and Russian actors.

Uncovering the Russia ties of Hillary’s campaign chief | New York Post

Kremlin-crazed Trumpophobes snored as Hillary and Bill made Russia great again.

Clinton Russia Ties: Bill & Hillary Sold Out U.S. Interests to Putin Regime | National Review
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More deflection. Trumplestilskin approves.


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#4,725
#4,725
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