TrumpPutingate III: the beginning of the end

#6,377
#6,377
Septic said:
Benghazi called and gives two thumbs up.

No one is going to jail or tossed out of office via impeachment without hard evidence of crimes.

The butthurt over the lingering cloud is just that, partisan butthurt. If the shoe were on the other foot, I dare say you'd be espousing different opinions. My only point is you guys have become what you profess to detest, snowflakes. The investigations aren't going anywhere, it's time to put the notions of shutting it down aside - accept it and move on. Especially if you're inclined to believe he's innocent.
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So how long should the investigations go? We're over a year now so 2? 3? When should we expect results?
 
#6,378
#6,378
hog88 said:
Have you been asleep the last 20+ years?
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Perhaps you can give an example of an impeachment or imprisonment that was carried out via partisan opinion where the law was ignored?

Just one example will do.

Your hyperbole may be good for 'likes' but it makes a terrible argument.
 
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#6,379
#6,379
hog88 said:
So how long should the investigations go? We're over a year now so 2? 3? When should we expect results?
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Honestly, wgas?

People are still being rung up for breaking the law; I say burn it down.

Drain the swamp right?
 
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#6,380
#6,380
Septic said:
Perhaps you can give an example of an impeachment or imprisonment that was carried out via partisan opinion where the law was ignored?

Just one example will do.

Your hyperbole may be good for 'likes' but it makes a terrible argument.
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Considering there has only been 2 Presidents impeached and 1 way before even 72s time I can't give you any examples of that. Pretty stupid question.

The second part is almost as stupid since this isn't all about convictions. This is about hamstringing a duly elected presidential administration with the cloud of a bogus investigation. And we may have witnessed the appointment of a SP in violation of the law.
 
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#6,382
#6,382
1972 Grad said:
My tune will change when some proof shows up that Trump is guilty of an actual crime while either running for, or since he has become President. I have yet to see anything that would change my mind.
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Like they proved bill and Hillary had those people killed??? Now you’re looking for proof??
 
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#6,384
#6,384
Septic said:
Benghazi called and gives two thumbs up.

No one is going to jail or tossed out of office via impeachment without hard evidence of crimes.

The butthurt over the lingering cloud is just that, partisan butthurt. If the shoe were on the other foot, I dare say you'd be espousing different opinions. My only point is you guys have become what you profess to detest, snowflakes. The investigations aren't going anywhere, it's time to put the notions of shutting it down aside - accept it and move on. Especially if you're inclined to believe he's innocent.
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I agree nobody is going to jail or get thrown out of office. And no I don’t think he’s a choir boy. Nor is he what the left narrative professes either.

Might as well get used to this form of American politics though. It is the new norm. It didn’t happen by accident
 
#6,387
#6,387
hog88 said:
Considering there has only been 2 Presidents impeached and 1 way before even 72s time I can't give you any examples of that. Pretty stupid question.

The second part is almost as stupid since this isn't all about convictions. This is about hamstringing a duly elected presidential administration with the cloud of a bogus investigation. And we may have witnessed the appointment of a SP in violation of the law.
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Wasn't it you who asked if I'd been asleep for the last 20 years?

My stupid question was a direct result of your stupid hyperbole. Trump is being "hamstrung" in what way? Seems to me he's doing all of the same things any other POTUS would have been doing except with more staff turnover and a lot more golf.
 
#6,388
#6,388
NorthDallas40 said:
I agree nobody is going to jail or get thrown out of office. And no I don’t think he’s a choir boy. Nor is he what the left narrative professes either.

Might as well get used to this form of American politics though. It is the new norm. It didn’t happen by accident
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That's the spirit.
 
#6,389
#6,389
hog88 said:
Who's being "rung up" for breaking the law?
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The full list of known indictments and plea deals in Mueller’s probe

1) George Papadopoulos, former Trump campaign foreign policy adviser, pleaded guilty in October to making false statements to the FBI.

2) Michael Flynn, Trump’s former national security adviser, pleaded guilty in December to making false statements to the FBI.

3) Paul Manafort, Trump’s former campaign chair, was indicted in October in Washington, DC on charges of conspiracy, money laundering, false statements, and failure to disclose foreign assets — all related to his work for Ukrainian politicians before he joined the Trump campaign. He’s pleaded not guilty on all counts. Then, in February, Mueller filed a new case against him in Virginia, with tax, financial, and bank fraud charges.

4) Rick Gates, a former Trump campaign aide and Manafort’s longtime junior business partner, was indicted on similar charges to Manafort. But he has now agreed to a plea deal with Mueller’s team, pleading guilty to just one false statements charge and one conspiracy charge.

5-20) 13 Russian nationals and three Russian companies were indicted on conspiracy charges, with some also being accused of identity theft. The charges related to a Russian propaganda effort designed to interfere with the 2016 campaign. The companies involved are the Internet Research Agency, often described as a “Russian troll farm,” and two other companies that helped finance it. The Russian nationals indicted include 12 of the agency’s employees and its alleged financier, Yevgeny Prigozhin.

21) Richard Pinedo: This California man pleaded guilty to an identity theft charge in connection with the Russian indictments, and has agreed to cooperate with Mueller.

22) Alex van der Zwaan: This London lawyer pleaded guilty to making false statements to the FBI about his contacts with Rick Gates and another unnamed person based in Ukraine
 
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#6,391
#6,391
hog88 said:
Considering there has only been 2 Presidents impeached and 1 way before even 72s time I can't give you any examples of that. Pretty stupid question.

The second part is almost as stupid since this isn't all about convictions. This is about hamstringing a duly elected presidential administration with the cloud of a bogus investigation. And we may have witnessed the appointment of a SP in violation of the law.
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Andrew Johnson was a friend in my hometown. He was a year ahead of me.
 
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#6,393
#6,393
Septic said:
The full list of known indictments and plea deals in Mueller’s probe

1) George Papadopoulos, former Trump campaign foreign policy adviser, pleaded guilty in October to making false statements to the FBI.

No investigation, no crime. That's a terribly weak example.

2) Michael Flynn, Trump’s former national security adviser, pleaded guilty in December to making false statements to the FBI.

See Above.

3) Paul Manafort, Trump’s former campaign chair, was indicted in October in Washington, DC on charges of conspiracy, money laundering, false statements, and failure to disclose foreign assets — all related to his work for Ukrainian politicians before he joined the Trump campaign. He’s pleaded not guilty on all counts. Then, in February, Mueller filed a new case against him in Virginia, with tax, financial, and bank fraud charges.

Will not got to trial and in the off chance Mueller does take it in front of a jury, he will not get a conviction.

4) Rick Gates, a former Trump campaign aide and Manafort’s longtime junior business partner, was indicted on similar charges to Manafort. But he has now agreed to a plea deal with Mueller’s team, pleading guilty to just one false statements charge and one conspiracy charge.

How many millions has Mueller spent to get a guy on charges from years old activity that the DOJ under Holder didn't think enough of to pursue. Yeah, real win there.

5-20) 13 Russian nationals and three Russian companies were indicted on conspiracy charges, with some also being accused of identity theft. The charges related to a Russian propaganda effort designed to interfere with the 2016 campaign. The companies involved are the Internet Research Agency, often described as a “Russian troll farm,” and two other companies that helped finance it. The Russian nationals indicted include 12 of the agency’s employees and its alleged financier, Yevgeny Prigozhin.

None will EVER see the inside of a courtroom, these indictments are window dressing.

21) Richard Pinedo: This California man pleaded guilty to an identity theft charge in connection with the Russian indictments, and has agreed to cooperate with Mueller.

This one is legit, good job Mueller.

22) Alex van der Zwaan: This London lawyer pleaded guilty to making false statements to the FBI about his contacts with Rick Gates and another unnamed person based in Ukraine

Another case of no investigation, no crime. His sentence reflects the severity of his "crime".
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Mueller has spent millions with little to nothing to show for it, so far his investigation has been a failure and waste of money. It's time for him to **** or get off the pot.
 
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#6,396
#6,396
Septic said:
If he hasn't committed a crime there is nothing to worry about, it's all just noise from the machine.

At the end of the day, there is due process and law and opinions can't usurp that.
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Do you really believe this? I've seen the same logic to justify the surveillance state and it infuriates me every time. This is how corrupt power conceals itself - through a facade of equal justice.

The problem with your logic is that individuals can be targeted if they are a threat to the power structure. Alternatively, crimes will be covered up if an individual or group are with the power structure.

Even if there is no crime the power structure still wins. They have the unlimited resources to destroy you financially, destroy you professionally, or ruin your personal life.

It's tragic that this is occurring so brazenly, on such a large scale, and half the country is cheering it on. :banghead2:
 
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#6,397
#6,397
hog88 said:
Starr had wrapped up the Whitewater investigation by now and was about to close shop when he was ASKED to look into the Paula Jones matter.
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Washingtonpost.com: Starr Probes Clinton Personal Life

FBI agents and prosecutors working for independent counsel Kenneth W. Starr's Whitewater investigation have questioned Arkansas state troopers in recent months about their knowledge of any extramarital relationships Bill Clinton may have had while he was Arkansas governor, according to two of the troopers questioned and sources close to the investigation.

Agents also have questioned a number of women whose names have been mentioned in connection with President Clinton in the past, the sources said. The sources said that the extensive interviews were part of an effort by Starr's office to find close Clinton associates in whom he may have confided and who might be able to provide information about the veracity of sworn statements Clinton has made in the course of the Whitewater investigation.

You keep claiming Starr was finished and then was asked to stay on and investigate Jones. Starr was digging for unrelated dirt throughout the Whitewater investigation and then used that when nothing more substantial materialized. Starr, gleefully supported by the congressional republican majority, conducted a witch hunt that makes Mueller's pale in comparison.
 
#6,398
#6,398
red butler said:
Do you really believe this? I've seen the same logic to justify the surveillance state and it infuriates me every time. This is how corrupt power conceals itself - through a facade of equal justice.

The problem with your logic is that individuals can be targeted if they are a threat to the power structure. Alternatively, crimes will be covered up if an individual or group are with the power structure.

Even if there is no crime the power structure still wins. They have the unlimited resources to destroy you financially, destroy you professionally, or ruin your personal life.

It's tragic that this is occurring so brazenly, on such a large scale, and half the country is cheering it on. :banghead2:
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It shouldn't, it's completely different.
 
#6,399
#6,399
hog88 said:
Mueller has spent millions with little to nothing to show for it, so far his investigation has been a failure and waste of money. It's time for him to **** or get off the pot.
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I disagree.

I just showed you 20 examples of things "to show for it."

The costs of trumps vacations to his private resorts, the untold rounds of golf, the costs to West Palm Beach taxpayers to provide security absolutely dwarfs the paltry costs of Muellers probe into election fraud.

If it's fiscal responsibility that gets your dander up, you're barking up the wrong tree.
 
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#6,400
#6,400
Septic said:
I disagree.

I just showed you 20 examples of things "to show for it."

The costs of trumps vacations to his private resorts, the untold rounds of golf, the costs to West Palm Beach taxpayers to provide security absolutely dwarfs the paltry costs of Muellers probe into election fraud.

If it's fiscal responsibility that gets your dander up, you're barking up the wrong tree.
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You showed 20 examples of nothing. All but two convictions was for lying to investigators. The indicted Russians will never stand trial and Gates/Manafort will turn into nothing.

My point is that investigations shouldn't be open ended.
 
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