Trump Assassination Attempt(s)

#7,082
#7,082
hog88 said:
When you cannot pay down the principle personal debt is a bad thing.
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No. No. No.

That's clearly the part you fail to comprehend. There is no paying down a nation's principle.

Need proof? The USA has had a national debt since the founding of our country. And yet here we are, gramps... the greatest national economically on earth.

250+ years, dude.

Checkmate.

Do us all a favor. Learn how logrithmic graphs work. Maybe, just maybe, this will slowly help you wrap your arms around how things work.

1000004300.png
 
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#7,083
#7,083
MontyPython said:
No. No. No.

That's clearly the part you fail to comprehend. There is no paying down a nation's principle.

Need proof? The USA has had a national debt since the founding of our country. And yet here we are, gramps... the greatest national economically on earth.

Checkmate.

Do us all a favor. Learn how logrithmic graphs work. Maybe, just maybe, this will slowly help you wrap your arms around how things work.

View attachment 661502
Click to expand...

From 1835 to about 1846 the US was either completely debt free or paid off the amount borrowed yearly. Your chart is crap, the lines crossed during the great depression.
 
#7,084
#7,084
MontyPython said:
No. No. No.

That's clearly the part you fail to comprehend. There is no paying down a nation's principle.

Need proof? The USA has had a national debt since the founding of our country. And yet here we are, gramps... the greatest national economically on earth.

Checkmate.

Do us all a favor. Learn how logrithmic graphs work. Maybe, just maybe, this will slowly help you wrap your arms around how things work.

View attachment 661502
Click to expand...
question, if we somehow just magically paid of the 34+ trillion right now, without creating any more debt, would our nation be in a better financial/economic situation than we are WITH the 34 trillion of debt?
 
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#7,085
#7,085
LouderVol said:
question, if we somehow just magically paid of the 34+ trillion right now, without creating any more debt, would our nation be in a better financial/economic situation than we are WITH the 34 trillion of debt?
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Yes, making it disappear, not repaying, yes we'd be better.
 
#7,086
#7,086
hog88 said:
From 1835 to about 1846 the US was either completely debt free or paid off the amount borrowed yearly. Your chart is crap, the lines crossed during the great depression.
Click to expand...
Intragovernmental Debt is a favorite of mine. Quite a scheme for something that is supposedly inconsequential.
 
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#7,087
#7,087
hog88 said:
From 1835 to about 1846 the US was either completely debt free or paid off the amount borrowed yearly. Your chart is crap, the lines crossed during the great depression.
Click to expand...
it also doesn't show a positive correlation. GDP has gone up even when the debt went down. and a large rise in debt was not matched with a large rise in GDP.

this chart makes his claim pretty spurious. that debt is somehow responsible for our growth.
 
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#7,088
#7,088
MontyPython said:
Yes, making it disappear, not repaying, yes we'd be better.
Click to expand...
why wouldn't repaying it make us better off, if its the same result as the debt disappearing?

and if debt is driving the GDP wouldn't removing it, thru any mechanism, be problematic?
 
#7,089
#7,089
LouderVol said:
why wouldn't repaying it make us better off, if its the same result as the debt disappearing?

and if debt is driving the GDP wouldn't removing it, thru any mechanism, be problematic?
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Paying the debt off with what... debt? We ain't got $34trillion sitting in our coffers. Alternatively, pump out trillions in new M1 off the printing press = crippling inflation.

EDIT: We could just conquer Russia and take their Rubles and vodka.

EDIT 2: We could just conquer Hogg and take his mobility scooter, false teeth and John Denver LPs.

$$$
 
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#7,090
#7,090
MontyPython said:
Paying the debt off with what... debt? We ain't got $34trillion sitting in our coffers. Alternatively, pump out trillions in new M1 off the printing press = crippling inflation.

EDIT: We could just conquer Russia and take their Rubles and vodka.

EDIT 2: We could just conquer Hogg and take his Rascal, false teeth and John Denver LPs.
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thats why I said magically. maybe the government finds 34 trillion dollars worth of something and sells it off to the various entities that hold our debt. an individual writes a really big check that doesn't bounce, or they died had no one in their will and left it all to pay off the nation's debt.

if we would be better off without the debt, how can you say it is not a problem? seems like if we are better off without it, there is something wrong/bad/problematic with it.
 
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#7,092
#7,092
hog88 said:
True, you never said "that word" but you have used synonyms. I've got a lot of them pulled up if you want but I'll just drop one for now.
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That comparison of household debt to national debt is wrong. To have an apples to apples, you need to compare the national debt to the annual budget in that example. Then the ratio %'s would be pretty close to the same. Slight of hand effort.
 
#7,095
#7,095
MontyPython said:
Paying the debt off with what... debt? We ain't got $34trillion sitting in our coffers. Alternatively, pump out trillions in new M1 off the printing press = crippling inflation.

EDIT: We could just conquer Russia and take their Rubles and vodka.
Click to expand...
We already did, after the wall came down and the USSR disappeared. In global banking and investment circles, it's known as "The Rape of Russia."

I remember wondering at the time why the U.S. didn't immediately engage in educating the Russian people on how free markets work, so that they could rebuild their countries on a firm foundation. I was absurdly naïve.

I was Joseph Cotten's American character "Holly Martins" in The Third Man... while the money & power interests were playing Orson Welles' also American character, "Harry Lime."

That's an important movie for Americans to see today. (And some of the most beautiful black & white cinematography ever!) Written by Graham Greene and directed by England's Carol Reed, it's Europe's post-war view of the world under the new USA superpower, and the United Nations.

Europe saw America as populated by simple, well-meaning, myth-believing citizens, but whose policies were run by conscienceless corporate and banking interests--both protected by the U.S. military. I'm politically conservative, but there's no denying the truth of what our gov't has been doing for decades. Eisenhower's warnings were more dire than most of us on the right realized.

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The Third Man (1949)
 
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#7,096
#7,096
LouderVol said:
thats why I said magically. maybe the government finds 34 trillion dollars worth of something and sells it off to the various entities that hold our debt. an individual writes a really big check that doesn't bounce, or they died had no one in their will and left it all to pay off the nation's debt.

if we would be better off without the debt, how can you say it is not a problem? seems like if we are better off without it, there is something wrong/bad/problematic with it.
Click to expand...
Debt is not inherently bad.

Look at it through this prism:

The government can (or did) borrow money (i.e. sold bonds) at stupid low interest rates (e.g. 3%).

If the return on this investment is greater than 3%, the debt has a positive return to our nation.

Consider the federal budget a pool of money. The origin of that pool water comes from many sources including debt issued. When the government loans money to me or you or another business owner (i.e. via fed backed SBA loans) the return on that money back to the government in the form of new taxes pays for the program and then some. Most individuals can earn waaaay more return than the 3% they gotta pay on a loan.

It's in this and other ways that our debt is a good thing.
 
#7,098
#7,098
MontyPython said:
Debt is not inherently bad.

Look at it through this prism:

The government can (or did) borrow money (i.e. sold bonds) at stupid low interest rates (e.g. 3%).

If the return on this investment is greater than 3%, the debt has a positive return to our nation.

Consider the federal budget a pool of money. The origin of that pool water comes from many sources including debt issued. When the government loans money to me or you or another business owner (i.e. via fed backed SBA loans) the return on that money back to the government in the form of new taxes pays for the program and then some. Most individuals can earn waaaay more return than the 3% they gotta pay on a loan.

It's in this and other ways that our debt is a good thing.
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Holy crap Turbo, the SBA doesn't loan money it guarantees the loans from private lenders. The government doesn't get a return on those loans it can only lose our tax dollars on them. I bet you thought the VA actually loaned veterans money to buy houses.
 
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#7,099
#7,099
hog88 said:
Holy crap Turbo, the SBA doesn't loan money it guarantees the loans from private lenders. The government doesn't get a return on those loans it can only lose our tax dollars on them. I bet you thought the VA actually loaned veterans money to buy houses.
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Correct. It *backs* the money so it's on the hook for it.
 
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