Too much ice

OK. Why is it profound? What does it tell us?
It tells us the victim was submissive and the officer who executed him later is already in a position to commit that act. He later did just that by the established timeline from where that image is in the video to where shots are heard. If you don’t see that as profound I guess you’ve got a ridiculously high bar for what is profound and what isn’t. Next?
 
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Thanks for posting, I’m sure you saw the object thrown at the first vehicle. Regroup, look for another video where I said “I haven’t seen a video of someone standing still with a sign get peppered sprayed”
 
I asked Grok to review all the laws and court cases about the use of pepper spray and this is the shorter summary it gave.

- Severity of the Crime (S): Pepper spray is more likely permissible for serious or violent offenses (e.g., felonies involving harm) than minor misdemeanors like trespassing or traffic violations. For low-severity crimes, courts often find its use disproportionate if alternatives exist.

- Threat to Safety (T): The most critical factor is whether the suspect poses an immediate danger to officers, bystanders, or themselves. If no threat exists (e.g., the person is restrained or non-aggressive), pepper spray is typically unreasonable.

- Active Behavior (A): This examines the suspect's ongoing actions. Aggressive or combative behavior may justify use, but passive or verbal non-compliance alone does not.

- Resistance to Instructions (R): Active physical resistance (e.g., struggling against arrest) can warrant pepper spray, but passive resistance (e.g., refusing to move without force) generally does not, especially if safer options like negotiation are available.

- Evasion of Arrest (E): Attempts to flee or evade capture heighten the need for force, making pepper spray more defensible.

Officers must also consider the totality of circumstances, including the suspect's size, mental state, and environmental factors, and provide warnings when feasible.

When Pepper Spray is Permissible: Examples from Case Law

Pepper spray is generally permissible when it aligns with the Graham factors, such as in situations involving active resistance, immediate threats, or evasion during serious crimes. However, courts rarely outline explicit "permissible" scenarios in rulings, as most litigation focuses on excessiveness claims. Inferred from analyses:

- If a suspect is actively resisting arrest (e.g., physically struggling) and poses a safety risk, pepper spray can be a reasonable escalation from verbal commands or hands-on control, especially for more serious offenses. For instance, in cases where suspects are unrestrained and aggressive, courts have upheld its use as proportionate.
 
Can you point to the standard, as opposed to your or my sensibilities and preferences? If so, I'll be happy to review and comment.

FTR, I did comment last week that the use of pepper spray on someone who was down and subdued was horse**** and excessive. If you want to be shocked, you can go back and see that I'm not here trying to shill for anyone.
 
Thanks for posting, I’m sure you saw the object thrown at the first vehicle. Regroup, look for another video where I said “I haven’t seen a video of someone standing still with a sign get peppered sprayed”
Looked like a cup (maybe an assault cup). Arrest them if there was a violation. You don't pepper spray a crowd as your driving away unless you're a coward
 
Can you point to the standard, as opposed to your or my sensibilities and preferences? If so, I'll be happy to review and comment.

FTR, I did comment last week that the use of pepper spray on someone who was down and subdued was horse**** and excessive. If you want to be shocked, you can go back and see that I'm not here trying to shill for anyone.
Like I said courts have ruled against pepper spray for non violent offenders numerous times, and when it is it’s a violation of the 4th amendment. I posted a summary above of the what qualifies. You think pepper sprayed for 10 seconds for stepping in between an agent and a women is no excessive?

The shocked was a sarcastic comment based off the fact you implying the shooting will be deemed justified
 
Like I said courts have ruled against pepper spray for non violent offenders numerous times, and when it is it’s a violation of the 4th amendment. I posted a summary above of the what qualifies. You think pepper sprayed for 10 seconds for stepping in between an agent and a women is no excessive?

My understanding is that courts have upheld pepper spray when people are obstructing officers, and when they have initiated physical contact of officers. I guess we'll see if this agent is disciplined?

The shocked was a sarcastic comment based off the fact you implying the shooting will be deemed justified

I'm not implying. I suspect that it will. I clearly stated so.
 
My understanding is that courts have upheld pepper spray when people are obstructing officers, and when they have initiated physical contact of officers. I guess we'll see if this agent is disciplined?



I'm not implying. I suspect that it will. I clearly stated so.
Can you provide a case where pepper spray was deemed permissible for simply touching an officer? What was he obstructing?

I also don’t see a touch here
 
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Melugin is correct. For most all cases MPD doesn’t have the authority to enforce ICE warrants because they originate from a civil authority. ICE just wants to leverage MPD’s work and execute their warrants on the individual. Frey needs to get his facts straight.

Now that being said if an individual under an ICE warrant then commits a serious crime like rape or murder I think the obvious superior pursuit is the later criminal offense. I’d rather see a convicted rapist or killer incarcerated instead of deported. There is probably a separate discussion that could be had about pointing to the ICE warrants as indicators of a flight risk. But now that means MPD should hold them until trial which needs to be established at a bail hearing.
 
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It tells us the victim was submissive and the officer who executed him later is already in a position to commit that act. He later did just that by the established timeline from where that image is in the video to where shots are heard. If you don’t see that as profound I guess you’ve got a ridiculously high bar for what is profound and what isn’t. Next?
What happened after that is what's significant. Unless ICE is pulling the trigger in that photo it means nothing.
 
Can you provide a case where pepper spray was deemed permissible for simply touching an officer? What was he obstructing?

I also don’t see a touch here


Many people have been charged with assaulting a law enforcement officer for simply touching one and I’m pretty sure that there’s no restrictions on using pepper spray when being assaulted.
 
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