Too much ice

[Rickyvol77]

Anyone who has the perspective that it’s not better, is always welcome to buy land and live off the grid.

So if it was really better you can still live that way, while still having access to the wheel, emergency medical care, etc

He believes all Third World level societies are equal to ours

 

[hndog609]

Contesting your definition of killed. You portray him as a murderer, which is irresponsible. She was a paid observer to be there to interfere. She was not an innocent bystander.

If you shot a guy that was in the process of trying to lop your wife's head off with a machete you killed him...a clear cut homicide. If it's justifiable then it's not murder.

Kinda semantics I know but that's where the friction is coming from.

 

[Rickyvol77]

Those things didn't kill her, the bullet did. You keep doing the equivalent of "those 9/11 passengers wouldn't have died if they didn't get on the planes." Yeah, that but-for stuff doesn't mean very much

the 9/11 passengers didn't do anything illegal or purposeful, thus their deaths aren't the same as the terrorists who did

 

[GVF]

I didn't say that she deserved to die. Every day people make bad decisions that get them killed but that doesn't mean they deserved to die they just put themselves in the position to die.

That doesn't register with him, or he refuses to let go of his narrative. I've not seen one single post in here from either extreme or the middle that said she deserved to die. Only that her actions precipitated and induced the situation.

 

[hog88]

Who on earth wouldn’t panic if people were trying to get into your vehicle. What happens while you panic is a different question all together,, but to say not everyone would have a sense of panic is bonkers.

A lot of people would panic sure, but most would keep their cool and comply then deal with any injustice later. Panic gets people killed.

 

[Rickyvol77]

She did nothing that made her deserve to die

"deserve to die" are weasel words distracting from the actual point of the issue

 

[CobbVol]

dRiViNg rIgHt aT tHe oFfIcEr

Thanks. They gave me a better view that the officer was further in front of the car than I thought.

 

[Vol8188]

And wait for the next neighboring tribal raiding party to show up, kidnap, rape or kill your wife and kids, scalp and kill you, and take all your ****.

Yeah they’ll still have access to modern police departments, courts, and fire departments.

Obviously Europeans made this place worse!

 

[NashVol11]

I didn't say that she deserved to die. Every day people make bad decisions that get them killed but that doesn't mean they deserved to die they just put themselves in the position to die.

If everyone agrees that she didn't deserve what happened, then it seems strange to me that 90% of the right's focus is on "SHE STARTED IT" rather than on the person actually shooting and killing her

 

[Rickyvol77]

Who on earth wouldn’t panic if people were trying to get into your vehicle. What happens while you panic is a different question all together,, but to say not everyone would have a sense of panic is bonkers.

In high school I was once held at gunpoint at a felony stop by KPD officers at 2am. I was scared only because I knew I didn't do anything wrong. I complied with them got out, was handcuffed etc.

Come to find out minutes later, a vehicle exactly matching mine had been carjacked at gunpoint 6 blocks away.

They apologized and thank me and sent me on my way.

Crazy how that work, and i completely understood it all and wasn't even upset

 

[RockyTop85]

Information this morning is that she is indeed a paid "observer" which is someone employed to video protests and confrontations, in a bad light for LE of course, and she was there to agitate and interfere. Her spouse was on the ground to video her in the vehicle in this instance

Do you think she deserved to die if she was there protesting/agitating/interfering?

 

[Rickyvol77]

Except this one you are talking to does not vote.

That's their right as well

 

[GVF]

If you shot a guy that was in the process of trying to lop your wife's head off with a machete you killed him...a clear cut homicide. If it's justifiable then it's not murder.

Kinda semantics I know but that's where the friction is coming from.

Totally understand and agree. I've held my debate points because our lefties only want to paint him as a murderer. And that is not true. Killing someone in self defense does not make someone a murderer. Now, had he tracked her down at her home after work and said you b**ch, pow pow, then we got a whole different story. Or if he had walked in from the sidewalk or something and just popped her. But, that's not the case.

 

[Rickyvol77]

Do you think she deserved to die if she was there protesting/agitating/interfering?

The action of her hitting the officer with the vehicle is the only behavior that legally covered the standard for self defense and response.

No one is suggesting that the officer should be able to use a firearm on someone yelling at them or filming them.

And again "deserved to die" is an emotional non-sequitur to distract from the actual issue

 

[Orange_Crush]

If everyone agrees that she didn't deserve what happened, then it seems strange to me that 90% of the right's focus is on "SHE STARTED IT" rather than on the person actually shooting and killing her

Probably because of all the people on the left saying that the agent deserves to go to prison for shooting her. It was a horrible ending, following actions that she was culpable for. Saying she was culpable in the actions that led to her death is not the same as saying that she deserved to die.

The argument seems to be that she has no culpability because she panicked when someone reached for her doorhandle, but the agent has all the culpability because he may have panicked when she floored her SUV at him.

Agendas here on both sides seem to be more concerned with creating blame for political capital and agenda than just agreeing that this is a terrible, terrible thing that should not have happened.

 

[InVOLuntary]

Sure.

SO it was ok for Ashli Babbitt to enter the capital? Impeding law enforcement is illegal, both are crimes. So I'm sure you will be consistent here.

 

[InVOLuntary]

lol....
Yet you have time to make 53,000 posts, priorities....I guess

Is the government paying him to post?

 

[Rickyvol77]

SO it was ok for Ashli Babbitt to enter the capital? Impeding law enforcement is illegal, both are crimes. So I'm sure you will be consistent here.

That's (D)ifferent

 

[hog88]

If everyone agrees that she didn't deserve what happened, then it seems strange to me that 90% of the right's focus is on "SHE STARTED IT" rather than on the person actually shooting and killing her

What you keep ignoring is that by the law her death was probably 100% legally justified. She put herself in that position.

I'm not a back the blue guy, I think most cops are cops (federal LE included) because either they aren't smart enough to do anything else, have a bully or macho man complex or are just plain crooked. So why on earth would anyone in their right mind give someone like that the opportunity to legally kill them? Don't give LE a reason because they will take it.

 

[RockyTop85]

The action of her hitting the officer with the vehicle is the only behavior that legally covered the standard for self defense and response.

No one is suggesting that the officer should be able to use a firearm on someone yelling at them or filming them.

And again "deserved to die" is an emotional non-sequitur to distract from the actual issue

I defer to the guy who made unsourced posts about her spouse burning her kid with cigarettes on emotional non sequiturs.

 

[NashVol11]

What you keep ignoring is that by the law her death was probably 100% legally justified.

I'm not ignoring that (see below). I'm just more interested in what people actually think than what is "legally justified"

Like, is he going to be found guilty of something? No idea, probably not; "beyond a reasonable doubt" is a high standard, this is based on state of mind which is hard to prove, and LEOs are rarely held accountable anyway. I don't think "guilty vs. not guilty in court" is what most people are talking about

 

[InVOLuntary]

Numerous lefties on here have openly defended the destruction of private property as part of that right. Full delusional.

Bring out the water hoses and tear gas

Man I miss the water cannon. You don't see them anymore. Most of these people could use a good bath anyway. Win/win.

 

[NashVol11]

I'm not a back the blue guy, I think most cops are cops (federal LE included) because either they aren't smart enough to do anything else, have a bully or macho man complex or are just plain crooked. So why on earth would anyone in their right mind give someone like that the opportunity to legally kill them? Don't give LE a reason because they will take it.

I understand where you are coming from. I just think she panicked and was driving away (and was also potentially told by at least one officer to "MOVE") rather than trying to attack or provoke them to kill her

 

[Vol8188]

Man I miss the water cannon. You don't see them anymore. Most of these people could use a good bath anyway. Win/win.

Yep, bring it out a few times during Minnesota winter and you’ll see a whole lot less losers trying to block the court house or destroying public property

 

[luthervol]

Anyone who has the perspective that it’s not better, is always welcome to buy land and live off the grid.

So if it was really better you can still live that way, while still having access to the wheel, emergency medical care, etc

I guess the next question would be....From the Native American perspective, was it an improvement?