Too much ice

#2,227
#2,227
LouderVol said:
yeah I don't see you calling it out from the right when they are doing it.

the cop put himself in the way of a vehicle he wanted moved. its counterproductive at best. and an important nuance that is ignored.

one cop, or more, tells her to move, another is stopping her with his body, so they decide they get to arrest her for not obeying one of them, and a civilian gets shot because the cops put her in an impossible situation.
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OK. Every time the right does it, it's a **** way to have a discussion, and they should be using nuance as well.

That should cover me. I'll bookmark it for your next whataboutism.

And for the record, the agent she was interacting with told her to stop, grabbed the doorhandle, at which time (while he was still attached to the SUV) she reversed her SUV at an angle that put the second agent in the path of the SUV, she put it in drive and stomped the gas. It's ridiculous to infer that she was just trying to follow orders and be cooperative. Give me a break.
 
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#2,228
#2,228
RockyTop85 said:
It is informative to have information that indicates that they were there because of ICE. It helps rule out that they were just trying to get home.

The tweet linking the story is really something. We really are living in a world where you can’t trust much of anything.
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Information this morning is that she is indeed a paid "observer" which is someone employed to video protests and confrontations, in a bad light for LE of course, and she was there to agitate and interfere. Her spouse was on the ground to video her in the vehicle in this instance
 
#2,229
#2,229
TrumpedUpVol said:
That's kind of the point, though, isn't it? This country has been far too frivolous with respect to legal immigration, let alone illegal immigration. I'd rather not lose like the Native Americans did, thank you, but that's just me!
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Did the European immigration "improve" the country?
 
#2,230
#2,230
RockyTop85 said:
Do you think that the legal deference given to police officers in these situations is worth it?

This was not morally justified or of questionable moral justification. It seems like all but the most extreme are on board with that view of the video.

If the policy justification for the officer not facing charges is intended to allow officers to act without hesitation in other circumstances (e.g. the guy who drove his car into the parade crowd a few years ago) is that a worthwhile trade off?

Tl;dr: would he face charges under a more perfect system?
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imo he would face charges in a more perfect system. doesn't mean he would be found guilty.

if she was a wanted criminal or actually posed a threat, rather than an inconvenience, this is a completely separate argument. I find the comparisons to Babbitt interesting, although imperfect. both died over improper forms of protest. neither deserved to be killed, but most of the people reacting have flipped their stances based on politics.

in a more perfect system the government doesn't have to cover for itself in the first place. the complete lack of accountability from the government over a period of time escalated this. at some point the people are going to stop believing/trusting the system and this bad, but probably legally defensible, action will be more common.
 
#2,231
#2,231
etsuvol13 said:
You do realize the fat pos I’ve “officer” was on the phone walking around and in front of the vehicle while they were trying to force themselves in right? You people are so blinded by hate, not even hate you’ve developed through your lived experience, that you can’t stop for one freaking second to think about what is going on.
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CNN had a new video angle. From the time the ICE truck stopped where two agents got out. She had time to drive off with no agent in front of her car.

She literally waited to be surrounded. She could have simply driven away.
 

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#2,237
#2,237
Orange_Crush said:
OK. Every time the right does it, it's a **** way to have a discussion, and they should be using nuance as well.

That should cover me. I'll bookmark it for your next whataboutism.

And for the record, the agent she was interacting with told her to stop, grabbed the doorhandle, at which time (while he was still attached to the SUV) she reversed her SUV at an angle that put the second agent in the path of the SUV, she put it in drive and stomped the gas. It's ridiculous to infer that she was just trying to follow orders and be cooperative. Give me a break.
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I never implied she was following orders or being cooperative. I said the cops gave her conflicting instructions that made the situation worse than it was. note the language "worse" as in there was already a wrong.

her angling her SUV is what made it a clip. had she gone never turned her wheel the agent would have been on her hood, and not clipped. so yes the point remains the cops were giving her conflicting instructions.

they wanted her to move and get out of the way, while somehow not hitting the guy right in front of her.
she couldn't move, because moving would have hit a cop
now its time to get out of the car. it won't play out this way in court but its borderline entrapment.
 
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#2,240
#2,240
Rickyvol77 said:
Well there was no country here, no government, and no laws. That is a 100% fact
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you know that goes both ways right? what made the native american land they were on part of the US? no settlers, no towns, no local or probably even state government.

and sure there were governments, chiefdoms are a form of government. and laws don't have to be written down to be laws. and those natives controlled their area just like any country would.

at best you are playing a semantics game to justify the government doing whatever it wants because its the government and can give itself the power to do whatever it wants.
 
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#2,241
#2,241
appvol said:
Trump hasn’t started a civil war or convicted of rape. The left did get the Felon which helped get him re elected. A lot of other countries like Trump. If you want to use the civil war thing one could say Obama started dividing the Country
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What trump's doing transcends political party loyalty. I hope you understand that. Right and left will reap the horrible rewards of this equally.

As far as obama goes, mostly what he did was be black while being president. The white fear that somehow a black president meant they were losing control of the country has lead to this moment in which white americans for some reason think they need to reconquer a country they've controlled for the last 200 years.
 
#2,242
#2,242
LouderVol said:
you know that goes both ways right? what made the native american land they were on part of the US? no settlers, no towns, no local or probably even state government.

and sure there were governments, chiefdoms are a form of government. and laws don't have to be written down to be laws. and those natives controlled their area just like any country would.

at best you are playing a semantics game to justify the government doing whatever it wants because its the government and can give itself the power to do whatever it wants.
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Not at all...it wasn't "their land" any more than it was the tribes lands that they conquered and stole from. No country anywhere in the world just existed out of nowhere.

A people or race or ethnic group conquered or settled every single country on Earth, and either defended it, created a working functioning government, or were conquered into oblivion.

But the United States DID become an actual country, recognized by every government on Earth and the Founders helped make the greatest and most powerful country there is.

The government does have checks and balances, its up to the people to use their votes to shape it how they want
 
#2,243
#2,243
LouderVol said:
yeah I don't see you calling it out from the right when they are doing it.

the cop put himself in the way of a vehicle he wanted moved. its counterproductive at best. and an important nuance that is ignored.

one cop, or more, tells her to move, another is stopping her with his body, so they decide they get to arrest her for not obeying one of them, and a civilian gets shot because the cops put her in an impossible situation.
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Well, she actually put herself in that position, but apparently she is not to be held accountable for what she was doing that caused all this to begin with.
 
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#2,247
#2,247
GroverCleveland said:
This is the way this thread seems to be running:

Convervatives: "She did not deserve to die, but she contributed to the circumstances leading to her death. It was not murder. The ICE agent was justified because the circumstances gave him the right to self-defense."

Leftists: "It was murder! Murder! She was as pure as the wind-driven snow and had nothing to do with the protests or interfering with ICE. Did we mention she was murdered?"
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Pretty much. The fact she was paid to be there doing what she and her spouse was doing bears no accountability to the end result. People act like this agent went to the bar and celebrated his conquest afterward.
 
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#2,248
#2,248
jvol1 said:
What trump's doing transcends political party loyalty. I hope you understand that. Right and left will reap the horrible rewards of this equally.

As far as obama goes, mostly what he did was be black while being president. The white fear that somehow a black president meant they were losing control of the country has lead to this moment in which white americans for some reason think they need to reconquer a country they've controlled for the last 200 years.
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Obama was bi racial 50% white and 50% black. Never said anything about race but you made it about race like the Left always does
 
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