Too much ice

[NashVol11]

For people who believe the 2nd amendment exists to protect them from 'government tyranny', you sure jump at the chance to support extrajudicial executions.

I almost brought this up earlier. Based on this, people acting like the Second Amendment would result in them waging war on the government are lying; even if the government overstepped and killed some citizens, they would just accept whatever DHS tweeted out as their new opinion

 

[K-town Vol Fan]

You can also HEAR her refusing to comply. She also had no busines blocking the road. Or interfering with LE. She could have prevented the outcome herself before it ever happened.

She wasn't blocking the road, she was in the process of turning around. And since when does not complying with police mean you deserve to get shot in the head? What kind of country do you want to live in?

 

[NashVol11]

What’s the solution? Allow illegal criminals to stay in the US? The lefts response is nothing should be done? There are zero solutions coming from the other side, just hate for Trump. Had MN opened their jails and allowed for the deportations of illegal criminals this stuff would likely not be happening. The left wants this anarchy

See? People will just jump at any excuse to eat up whatever the admin is selling. This person said "what do you want them to do, nothing?" as if not killing bystanders is too much to ask

 

[hndog609]

I agree he could have stepped aside and took down the tag.

Given the LE presence I don't think she'd have gotten far at all tbh.

I also agree that if it's true he had been drug by a car already in a prior event, and this car took off and made contact with him, his reaction is understandable, and possibly legal, and in that moment having already experienced this once rightfully did not consider another action.

There's a problem with this line of thought. While it might be posited as a contributing factor if he was some sort of PTSD case where he was more prone to such an interaction he shouldn't have been in that environment in the first place. Were I his defense lawyer and was having difficulty with the hard facts of the matter I'd certainly try to sell that being a factor but as soon as you raise that issue you're basically going from "This is was a perfectly clean shoot standing on it's own merit." to more of a "Well. you know this guy recently had a bad experience, right?". I think you'd agree it's way better to not have to go there.

Law of physics. For every action there is an opposite and equal reaction. Protestors should retreat to the sidewalks and do it legally or go home to their own state and get a different job.

There's a slew of idioms on the matter but actions have consequences. Regardless of whatever anyone believes regarding the justification for the actual shooting there is quite literally no possible way to argue she didn't have choices and made some pretty poor ones.

There should be a law against being a paid protestor crossing state lines to agitate. Local governments should be responsible enough to say we appreciate your support but please stay home and protest in your own cities. This was not even a person that had sqaut to do with local interests and activities in Minneapolis.

To this last bit it's really tricky to mucking around with who can protest where as long as they are acting within legal guidelines, paid or not. The idea of mercenary protest is pretty unpalatable but man...I just get the heebie jeebies when handing .gov more control over much of anything.

 

[LouderVol]

Ehh, I wouldn't necessarily say ICE was the aggressor. If the dumbazz wouldn't have shot her she eventually would have been convicted of assault with a deadly weapon at a minimum.

after they approached, surrounded her car, and had weapons drawn? I am pretty sure all of that is aggressive.

well maybe she was the aggressor, if she had them stuck down a dead end road, or there was some other threat to them and she had them trapped, I could see the argument. but I am pretty sure that wasn't the case.

This was ICE looking for a fight, and they found one. and because they have badges they will get away with it.

 

[GVF]

She wasn't blocking the road, she was in the process of turning around. And since when does not complying with police mean you deserve to get shot in the head? What kind of country do you want to live in?

When, based on other video now released, you clearly strike an officer while not complying. A reaction to an action she should not have been in the middle of. She caused the shooting. Granted, the agent is in a mess and his action is highly debateable. But, she did strike him. He may be liable for excessive force, but not murder.

If I was her family in Missouri, i'd be suing the entity that paid her to go meddle in someone elses local affairs.

As for what kind of country I want to live in...one where this bulls**t leftist rhetoric against the law and your fellow man that doesn't agree with you on everything goes h*ll and life can go back to being reasonably orderly and where everything that happens is not based on hatred of one person. A country where people will respect our sovereignty and quit coming here illegaly and stealing my tax dollars from my kids table.

 

[allstar34]

 

[YankeeVol]

after they approached, surrounded her car, and had weapons drawn? I am pretty sure all of that is aggressive.

well maybe she was the aggressor, if she had them stuck down a dead end road, or there was some other threat to them and she had them trapped, I could see the argument. but I am pretty sure that wasn't the case.

This was ICE looking for a fight, and they found one. and because they have badges they will get away with it.

He didn't pull his weapon until after she started to pull forward

 

[hog88]

after they approached, surrounded her car, and had weapons drawn? I am pretty sure all of that is aggressive.

well maybe she was the aggressor, if she had them stuck down a dead end road, or there was some other threat to them and she had them trapped, I could see the argument. but I am pretty sure that wasn't the case.

This was ICE looking for a fight, and they found one. and because they have badges they will get away with it.

I didn't see a weapon drawn until she accelerated forward.

 

[ETV]

after they approached, surrounded her car, and had weapons drawn? I am pretty sure all of that is aggressive.

well maybe she was the aggressor, if she had them stuck down a dead end road, or there was some other threat to them and she had them trapped, I could see the argument. but I am pretty sure that wasn't the case.

This was ICE looking for a fight, and they found one. and because they have badges they will get away with it.

They've been attempting to perform their duties as officers. Unfortunately, they've been met with some violent responses from protestors at almost every location, but ICE is the one looking for a fight?

 

[appvol]

? Doesn’t have to do with the shooting. When the car hits the other parked cars if you owned one of those vehicles who pays to have them fixed or replaced

 

[ETV]

? Doesn’t have to do with the shooting. When the car hits the other parked cars if you owned one of those vehicles who pays to have them fixed or replaced

If you want your vehicle repaired in a timely manner, report the claim to your own insurance company.

Let them begin subrogation with the other individuals insurance, once the claim has been paid out.

 

[NashVol11]

after they approached, surrounded her car, and had weapons drawn? I am pretty sure all of that is aggressive.

well maybe she was the aggressor, if she had them stuck down a dead end road, or there was some other threat to them and she had them trapped, I could see the argument. but I am pretty sure that wasn't the case.

This was ICE looking for a fight, and they found one. and because they have badges they will get away with it.

Her tires (and steering wheel) were also pointed squarely away from him well before any shots were fired

 

[NashVol11]

They've been attempting to perform their duties as officers. Unfortunately, they've been met with some violent responses from protestors at almost every location, but ICE is the one looking for a fight?

They were certainly the violent ones in this situation, and I don't remember any protestors shooting an ICE agent in the head tbh

 

[allstar34]

Her tires (and steering wheel) were also pointed squarely away from him well before any shots were fired

I'm sure between trying to save his life and her losing her life... He didn't have time to look at her wheel positioning.

 

[GVF]

Given the LE presence I don't think she'd have gotten far at all tbh.

There's a problem with this line of thought. While it might be posited as a contributing factor if he was some sort of PTSD case where he was more prone to such an interaction he shouldn't have been in that environment in the first place. Were I his defense lawyer and was having difficulty with the hard facts of the matter I'd certainly try to sell that being a factor but as soon as you raise that issue you're basically going from "This is was a perfectly clean shoot standing on it's own merit." to more of a "Well. you know this guy recently had a bad experience, right?". I think you'd agree it's way better to not have to go there.

There's a slew of idioms on the matter but actions have consequences. Regardless of whatever anyone believes regarding the justification for the actual shooting there is quite literally no possible way to argue she didn't have choices and made some pretty poor ones.

To this last bit it's really tricky to mucking around with who can protest where as long as they are acting within legal guidelines, paid or not. The idea of mercenary protest is pretty unpalatable but man...I just get the heebie jeebies when handing .gov more control over much of anything.

Point 1...Very True.

Point 2...The PTSD crossed my mind but I didn't spell it out. However, there is other video out now that shows she did strike him, and he allegedly has went to hospital for treatment but don't know if true. She was disobeying LE when she took off and struck him. If her intent was to NOT impede LE as a protestor, she wouldn't have been in her vehicle smack dab in the middle of all of htem while they wee exercising duties unrelated to her. I'd say there's enough to not invoke PTSD even if it were true.

Point 3...100% agree. Her actions and decisions caused her death. His reactions were merely the results of the process in which she forced someone to make a decision. Two spearate cases to argue.

Point 4...That's more of a local government issue in my mind. Leaders need to step up and be local leaders and denounce these transient agitators and be leaders. And you can do that as a liberal or conservative. I got no business whatsoever living in TN and agitating in MN. And I have no issue with federal agents enforcing federal immigration law. I really do hate that it does break up some families and affects some good intentioned illegals. And I probably know some that'd be gone if caught. But, you rolled the dice, not me. You made a decision to come here wrongly, and because of that ICE came to your town, and a paid agitator is now dead. So, if you want to point fingers, blame the illegals. It was their actions that caused all these dominos to start falling.

 

[GVF]

Her tires (and steering wheel) were also pointed squarely away from him well before any shots were fired

Not far enough away to miss him. Video posted from other angles clearly show solid contact to his left leg.

 

[NashVol11]

I'm sure between trying to save his life and her losing her life... He didn't have time to look at her wheel positioning.

If he isn't looking at the person he's shooting to see that she is turning the steering wheel hard away from him, then he shouldn't have a gun

 

[GVF]

They were certainly the violent ones in this situation, and I don't remember any protestors shooting an ICE agent in the head tbh

How bout an FBI agent plugged in the head serving a warrant??

 

[NashVol11]

Not far enough away to miss him. Video posted from other angles clearly show solid contact to his left leg.

If she hit his left leg from a starting point of being in front of him, then that proves she was turning away and not "about to run him over" lol

 

[lawgator1]

Her tires (and steering wheel) were also pointed squarely away from him well before any shots were fired

I have been handling these cases for 25 years. Maybe a dozen of them. Have one right now.

Cops (in this case ICE, I guess) do not have to, in the words of the courts, measure angles and trajectories. A car can change direction with no warning and he does not have to guess as a to its ultimate path. The she lurches towards him is enough, and he does not, again in the words of the courts, have to just "hope for the best."

You say her tires are turned "well before" shots are fired. Maybe 2 seconds before, but then the car moves forward, initially toward the officer. The use of deadly force based just on that is easily justified. (I do not know the rest of it and don't know if there is audio, which could change things I suppose, but based on video this was easily justified.)

 

[GVF]

after they approached, surrounded her car, and had weapons drawn? I am pretty sure all of that is aggressive.

well maybe she was the aggressor, if she had them stuck down a dead end road, or there was some other threat to them and she had them trapped, I could see the argument. but I am pretty sure that wasn't the case.

This was ICE looking for a fight, and they found one. and because they have badges they will get away with it.

So she drove up in the middle of a bunch of ICE agents and vehicles minding business that had nothing to with her and her drive in from Missouri, and ICE was looking for a fight?? She went to them. She was not the subject of the duties they were performing, yet she was in the middle of them. She made bad choices.

 

[jmacvols1]

 

[GVF]

I have been handling these cases for 25 years. Maybe a dozen of them. Have one right now.

Cops (in this case ICE, I guess) do not have to, in the words of the courts, measure angles and trajectories. A car can change direction with no warning and he does not have to guess as a to its ultimate path. The she lurches towards him is enough, and he does not, again in the words of the courts, have to just "hope for the best."

You say her tires are turned "well before" shots are fired. Maybe 2 seconds before, but then the car moves forward, initially toward the officer. The use of deadly force based just on that is easily justified. (I do not know the rest of it and don't know if there is audio, which could change things I suppose, but based on video this was easily justified.)

Wow. Thanks LG. I know your peronal take may sound diff, but props for laying out the legality equitably.

 

[allstar34]

I have been handling these cases for 25 years. Maybe a dozen of them. Have one right now.

Cops (in this case ICE, I guess) do not have to, in the words of the courts, measure angles and trajectories. A car can change direction with no warning and he does not have to guess as a to its ultimate path. The she lurches towards him is enough, and he does not, again in the words of the courts, have to just "hope for the best."

You say her tires are turned "well before" shots are fired. Maybe 2 seconds before, but then the car moves forward, initially toward the officer. The use of deadly force based just on that is easily justified. (I do not know the rest of it and don't know if there is audio, which could change things I suppose, but based on video this was easily justified.)

Lol with your User Name and the description of the case.. I may have saw your case on a replay of a live stream