Too much ice

[DuckInAPen]

did you eat breakfast illegally

How the hell should I know? I got my box of Wheaties out of the pantry, and neither Sleepy Joe nor any of the corrupt, thug, leftist judges W appointed did a damn thing to apply due process.

 

[DuckInAPen]

What process is defined in the Alien Enemies Act? That'd be the process due.

Or it would be if only our do-nothing congressmen would issue a formal declaration of war against every single country in the atlas!

 

[W.TN.Orange Blood]

Protesters never seem to learn that this childish behavior is not the way getting your way.

 

[Carl Pickens]

Or….
Try this on for size….
We deport criminals that get arrested as a priority and leave the people with EFiN numbers paying the taxes……….that support lazy ******** Americans that I don’t want on my job sites…..alone, until the criminal element is corrected. Then let’s reform the immigration system so those people we need can be utilized. And while we’re at it…..we might ask the employers who is in need of manpower instead of making blanket statements that don’t look anything like reality.

In Tennessee they have quietly stopped helping ice with anything other than the criminals they arrest because they’re killing productivity in the construction and manufacturing industries. Those are not low skilled low wage jobs.

Best points I’ve seen made in a while .

 

[jmacvols1]

How the hell should I know? I got my box of Wheaties out of the pantry, and neither Sleepy Joe nor any of the corrupt, thug, leftist judges W appointed did a damn thing to apply due process.

you're trying to compare eating breakfast to people entering the country illegally and not entering through a port of entry

 

[EasternVol]

OK. If you're not asking me to see things from your POV, don't waste our time.

It's a discussion forum. If you think stating an opinion here is wasting others' time then you're in the wrong place.

Please explain. How should I take that? Are you saying that I should be devoting my efforts to educating the unskilled American non-workers as part of the remedy?

No, you should concentrate on your own education, and I mean a real education and not from fringe websites and social media..

Or are we just going to immediately devolve to insults?

Consider it constructive criticism. That's how it's intended.

Didn't you just express a lack of faith that Congress would do anything about the welfare problem? You seemed to indicate that importing more unskilled foreign workers is the answer.

Me, no faith in Congress? Ok, you got me, I have no faith that they'll fix immigration and or fix welfare, at least any time soon, but they sure need to get it done. They're almost completely useless. But they are who must make the necessary adjustments. Yes the answer to a worker shortage is more workers. Remember that kicking someone off welfare, even if justified, doesn't automatically make that person able and available to fill an open job.

"When is Congress going to do anything about it?"

I don't know. If history is any indicator, probably when the pain of inaction has the voters force them to.
I'd be happy to see any plan to do so and change my support one way or another, dependent on the details of the proposed plan. Until then, I'd be against importing more unskilled foreign workers while we pay unskilled American non-workers to stay home.

 

[EasternVol]

“Let ‘em in, they may kidnap your child or decapitate the Hotel Manager; but they cut my yard cheaper than the local English speaker”
Who pays workers comp, insurance, taxes and has to do business the legal way.

Gawd what a wuss. We'll get them to promise not to decapitate any hotel managers. It'll be on the forms they sign and everything.
Was that last tiny font gibberish a statement or a question?

 

[allstar34]

Gawd what a wuss. We'll get them to promise not to decapitate any hotel managers. It'll be on the forms they sign and everything.

No forms, no forgiveness, and no second chances. They must be deported. We are always reminded how bad this country was in the past and how horrible slavery is; until it’s taking advantage of an illegal alien for slave wages.

If a business can’t operate without the Temu of labor workers, they should cease to exist. This Nation does not need illegal, criminal aliens to prosper.

 

[DuckInAPen]

you're trying to compare eating breakfast to people entering the country illegally and not entering through a port of entry

Yes, but only to the extent that both fall under the heading of "things that no one could even conceive of due process being applied to, unless he's grasping for a red herring."

 

[EasternVol]

No forms, no forgiveness, and no second chances. They must be deported. We are always reminded how bad this country was in the past and how horrible slavery is; until it’s taking advantage of an illegal alien for slave wages.

If a business can’t operate without the Temu of labor workers, they should cease to exist. This Nation does not need illegal, criminal aliens to prosper.

Yeah those are some words and all but if you'd read carefully what I wrote you should pick up that I did not say to bring in illegals.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Or it would be if only our do-nothing congressmen would issue a formal declaration of war against every single country in the atlas!

A declaration of war is not required to implement the AEA.

Whenever there is a declared war between the United States and any foreign nation or government, or any invasion or predatory incursion is perpetrated, attempted, or threatened against the territory of the United States by any foreign nation or government, and the President makes public proclamation of the event...

My point was that there is some vagueness in the SCOTUS ruling and nuance in the AEA, thus I'm not sure how that SCOTUS ruling would be applied.

§22. Time allowed to settle affairs and depart​

When an alien who becomes liable as an enemy, in the manner prescribed in section 21 of this title, is not chargeable with actual hostility, or other crime against the public safety, he shall be allowed, for the recovery, disposal, and removal of his goods and effects, and for his departure, the full time which is or shall be stipulated by any treaty then in force between the United States and the hostile nation or government of which he is a native citizen, denizen, or subject; and where no such treaty exists, or is in force, the President may ascertain and declare such reasonable time as may be consistent with the public safety, and according to the dictates of humanity and national hospitality.

(R.S. §4068.)

Editorial Notes​

Codification​

R.S. §4068 derived from acts July 6, 1798, ch. 66, §1, 1 Stat. 577; July 6, 1812, ch. 130, 2 Stat. 781.

So, Section 22 was literally given to define the "time" given to people deported via the AEA. Section 22 states that that time should be allotted to anyone NOT chargeable "with actual hostility, or other crime against the public safety"

It's my recollection that the TDA folks already out of the country were sent out because they were chargeable with acts of hostility.

Section 22 also states that such "due process" should be in accordance with the definitions of existing treaties and the hostile nation. I'm not sure what treaties we have defining such with, say, Venezuela. So, if no treaty is defined, it says that the President has the complete leeway to define it as he finds consistent for public safety.

So, I'm just not sure how the SCOTUS ruling will be applied. What is "reasonable time"? By the definition of the law, that is whatever the President says, if there is no treaty with the home country.

And then, is the SCOTUS ruling applied for AEA deportations that have already been deported? A lower judge has the right to force the executive branch to re-import them?

 

[jmacvols1]

Yes, but only to the extent that both fall under the heading of "things that no one could even conceive of due process being applied to, unless he's grasping for a red herring."

there was no due process in entering, so why complain about due process in leaving.

Dems let them in illegally and easily yet want the drawn out "due process" to keep illegals in the country as long as they can so they will be counted in Census and get them to vote illegally regardless of all the crimes, murders, rape they commit.

 

[allstar34]

Yeah those are some words and all but if you'd read carefully what I wrote you should pick up that I did not say to bring in illegals.

You want to hand out free vouchers to all for easy American Citizenship. I saw what you said. It’s not necessary.

 

[Orangeslice13]

I don’t have much sympathy for people who knowingly came illegally, stayed for years, and were then caught. Only statement being adhere to the law in removing them. But as you say being heavy handed on the ones trying their hardest to do it right is just petty and fruitless it makes others look at it and say why bother.

Think of the insanity of this.
We make it near impossible to come here legally to work…..but we give them EFIN numbers so they can pay taxes. Then we raid manufacturing plants because they have excessive “illegal” labor…..that we know about because they’re paying taxes….and we deport (if memory serves) 400 people who we’re making 25-40 dollars an hour…..and that plant shuts down because there are no “Americans” applying to do the jobs…..and 2 companies now are having to import from china to keep the auto manufacturing plants (here) from shutting down.

Seriously…..what the **** are we doing?

I don’t give 2 ***** if they jumped the boarder to get here. If a manufacturer needs the help they should be able to sponsor the people they have and get them a work visa.

 

[Orangeslice13]

You want to hand out free vouchers to all for easy American Citizenship. I saw what you said. It’s not necessary.

It’s not easy to become a citizen anywhere in the world and it shouldn’t be easy here either. It also shouldn’t be nearly impossible to get a work visa either. Start issuing work visas and shut down the illegal migration across the border…..and deport all who commit crimes (actual crimes, not a simple speeding ticket or parking ticket) visa or otherwise

Fix it over time. The same way we broke it.

 

[Orange_Crush]

...

Me, no faith in Congress? Ok, you got me, I have no faith that they'll fix immigration and or fix welfare, at least any time soon, but they sure need to get it done.

I think we've agreed on this.

They're almost completely useless.

OK. We've pretty much agreed on this.

But they are who must make the necessary adjustments.

OK. Like I said, I'm ready to listen the detailed plan and reconsider, dependent on its details.

Yes the answer to a worker shortage is more workers.

We agree on that. I'm just not default agreeing that the best answer is to import unskilled workers while we pay unskilled non-workers not to work. Flooding supply (workers) to the job market, thus keeping wages artificially low, may actually be self-defeating to the process of getting American workers off of welfare and into the job market.

Remember that kicking someone off welfare, even if justified, doesn't automatically make that person able and available to fill an open job.

Like I said, I'm ready to listen to a plan and reconsider, dependent on its details. Short of that, I can't say I'm in favor of importing more unskilled labor while we pay our current unskilled non-labor to not work.

 

[Smokey123]

It’s not easy to become a citizen anywhere in the world and it shouldn’t be easy here either. It also shouldn’t be nearly impossible to get a work visa either. Start issuing work visas and shut down the illegal migration across the border…..and deport all who commit crimes (actual crimes, not a simple speeding ticket or parking ticket) visa or otherwise

Fix it over time. The same way we broke it.

And if someone has lived here for years, abiding by the laws, paying taxes there’s zero reason they should be deported.

 

[DuckInAPen]

there was no due process in entering, so why complain about due process in leaving.

Dems let them in illegally and easily yet want the drawn out "due process" to keep illegals in the country as long as they can so they will be counted in Census and get them to vote illegally regardless of all the crimes, murders, rape they commit.

The idea that the government might be empowered to violate due process on the grounds that it previously neglected to prevent (by some hitherto unimagined application of due process!) the crime it alleges a defendant to have committed is an idea truly worthy of an Alien Enemy.

 

[Orangeslice13]

And if someone has lived here for years, abiding by the laws, paying taxes there’s zero reason they should be deported.

I lost a sub about 6 months ago over a speeding ticket.
He has a 15 year old son who is a citizen. He was here legally (originally) but his work visa had run out. I’m not sure if he knew or not but they deported him because it was expired.
He’s been paying taxes for 20 years and never been in trouble. It’s so much harder to get him back because of that deportation. I’m working on it but it’s going to take some time.

He was 7 miles an hour over the speed limit.
So his wife and 3 American citizen children get to struggle without their dad while we work this out.

Worst case we get him back in 6 years when the oldest hits 21. Then it’s a green card.

Have I mentioned that the system is broken and the rules have been written by morons.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Some people, apparently. See the other reply to my post.

Useful for what?

Keeping them in power.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

I don’t have much sympathy for people who knowingly came illegally, stayed for years, and were then caught. Only statement being adhere to the law in removing them. But as you say being heavy handed on the ones trying their hardest to do it right is just petty and fruitless it makes others look at it and say why bother.

But were they trying to do it right? They just didn't try to get that last piece of the puzzle though. That's the rub. If someone was here for 20 years and didn't become a citizen, my question is why not? Biden screwed THEM.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

I lost a sub about 6 months ago over a speeding ticket.
He has a 15 year old son who is a citizen. He was here legally (originally) but his work visa had run out. I’m not sure if he knew or not but they deported him because it was expired.
He’s been paying taxes for 20 years and never been in trouble. It’s so much harder to get him back because of that deportation. I’m working on it but it’s going to take some time.

He was 7 miles an hour over the speed limit.
So his wife and 3 American citizen children get to struggle without their dad while we work this out.

Worst case we get him back in 6 years when the oldest hits 21. Then it’s a green card.

Have I mentioned that the system is broken and the rules have been written by morons.

That sucks. It truly does and I am sympathetic. But why didn't he become a citizen in those 20 years?

Thanks Democrats.

 

[DirtyDawg]

I lost a sub about 6 months ago over a speeding ticket.
He has a 15 year old son who is a citizen. He was here legally (originally) but his work visa had run out. I’m not sure if he knew or not but they deported him because it was expired.
He’s been paying taxes for 20 years and never been in trouble. It’s so much harder to get him back because of that deportation. I’m working on it but it’s going to take some time.

He was 7 miles an hour over the speed limit.
So his wife and 3 American citizen children get to struggle without their dad while we work this out.

Worst case we get him back in 6 years when the oldest hits 21. Then it’s a green card.

Have I mentioned that the system is broken and the rules have been written by morons.

I don’t have a strong opinion on immigration or strong convictions one way or another on how it should be handled, but that is primarily bc I don’t feel nearly educated enough on the subject to feel I understand it. I do think that it’s very sad that situations like the one you’ve described above are taking place! It’s terrible that there are no common sense practices in place to allow for an arrangement providing an answer for someone (such as your sub) to avoid deportation. Like said, I don’t pretend to understand the laws surrounding this situation, but the laws leading to his deportation seem lazy at best. It’s very sad that there isn’t an answer to this short of deportation!

 

[NorthDallas40]

But were they trying to do it right? They just didn't try to get that last piece of the puzzle though. That's the rub. If someone was here for 20 years and didn't become a citizen, my question is why not? Biden screwed THEM.

That wasn’t the case I was making. If they immigrated legally and adhered to the process and retained legal residency yes they did it right. They can still be an expat. We have expats in other countries

 

[W.TN.Orange Blood]

Here's an update of what's going on in Minneapolis in the last hour. Left is losing.