Todd Helton HOF Debate

#5

ArdentVol

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#5
think there's a decent change he'll be in by 2024. Pulling for him to make it. I would also vote for Scott Rolen. Ortiz will het in this year
 
#10

BigOrangeMojo

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#10
JMO but maybe because he didn’t have cartoonish stats outside the norm for his age…or otherwise.
Ortiz had 58 HR thru his first 6 years, got busted with a positive test in 2003 and was hitting close to 40 HR per year well into his 40s. Of the tens of thousands of baseball players, I would bet there are no "clean" players with that career track.

If you are keeping Bonds and Clemens out, then Ortiz has to be kept out as well. Personally, they should be in but yeah, there's inconsistent treatment.
 
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#11

butchna

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#11
Ortiz had 58 HR thru his first 6 years, got busted with a positive test in 2003 and was hitting close to 40 HR per year well into his 40s. Of the tens of thousands of baseball players, I would bet there are no "clean" players with that career track.

If you are keeping Bonds and Clemens out, then Ortiz has to be kept out as well. Personally, they should be in but yeah, there's inconsistent treatment.
40 isn't 70 or the career homerun title. Bonds and Clemens were surefire first ballots who traded that for records. No sympathy. I'm ok with Big Poppi making it because his numbers are believable. The fact he remained productive WELL beyond testing implementation seals that belief.
 
#12

BigOrangeMojo

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#12
40 isn't 70 or the career homerun title. Bonds and Clemens were surefire first ballots who traded that for records. No sympathy. I'm ok with Big Poppi making it because his numbers are believable. The fact he remained productive WELL beyond testing implementation seals that belief.
I'm OK with these guys making it but I do find the hypocrisy funny. Jeff Bagwell didn't get in until his 4th try not due to his stats but because it looked like he took steroids. Ortiz had the same body transformation AND a positive test. If Peyton Manning's HOF was voted on by baseball writers, he might not be in the HOF right now.

I think my cut off for HOF is those guys who got suspended due to a failed test once a program was put in place. MLB was turning a blind eye to it in late 90s and early 00s.
 
#13

butchna

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#13
I'm OK with these guys making it but I do find the hypocrisy funny. Jeff Bagwell didn't get in until his 4th try not due to his stats but because it looked like he took steroids. Ortiz had the same body transformation AND a positive test. If Peyton Manning's HOF was voted on by baseball writers, he might not be in the HOF right now.

I think my cut off for HOF is those guys who got suspended due to a failed test once a program was put in place. MLB was turning a blind eye to it in late 90s and early 00s.
Blind eye or accepting of their fate. MLB had a losing streak against the players union dating back to the 70’s. If Congress didn’t intervene, roids would still be the norm. All the players had to do to avoid it was cycle off before an announced date…ONE TIME and they couldn’t do it! It had to be like 65% or some crazy easy mark for them to avoid it.
 
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#17

txbo

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#17
40 isn't 70 or the career homerun title. Bonds and Clemens were surefire first ballots who traded that for records. No sympathy. I'm ok with Big Poppi making it because his numbers are believable. The fact he remained productive WELL beyond testing implementation seals that belief.
MLB should test weekly. Anybody that tests negative should be removed from the lineup until they get stronger.

Let the dingers fly. Baseball is better with steroids.
 
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#20

508mikey

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#20
I'm OK with these guys making it but I do find the hypocrisy funny. Jeff Bagwell didn't get in until his 4th try not due to his stats but because it looked like he took steroids. Ortiz had the same body transformation AND a positive test. If Peyton Manning's HOF was voted on by baseball writers, he might not be in the HOF right now.

I think my cut off for HOF is those guys who got suspended due to a failed test once a program was put in place. MLB was turning a blind eye to it in late 90s and early 00s.
exactly it was right after the unpopular strike and they were doing anything to get fans back - the Sosa and McGuire HR race did just that - did the Commisioner care how ? NOPE
 
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#21

butchna

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#21
MLB should test weekly. Anybody that tests negative should be removed from the lineup until they get stronger.

Let the dingers fly. Baseball is better with steroids.
We disagree. If you ain't good without juice you ain't good.
 
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#23

508mikey

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#23
We disagree. If you ain't good without juice you ain't good.
even with juice, they had to be able to swing fast enough to hit a 98 mph fastball - a curve ball - sinker - slider -- you got old timers that cheated in the HOF - pitchers that threw shine balls & hitters that doctored bats etc
 
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#24

butchna

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#24
even with juice, they had to be able to swing fast enough to hit a 98 mph fastball - a curve ball - sinker - slider -- you got old timers that cheated in the HOF - pitchers that threw shine balls & hitters that doctored bats etc
Didn't make the ball jump out of the stadium. There's no pitching equvalent to Brady Anderson hitting 50 home runs.
 
#25

peaygolf

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#25
even with juice, they had to be able to swing fast enough to hit a 98 mph fastball - a curve ball - sinker - slider -- you got old timers that cheated in the HOF - pitchers that threw shine balls & hitters that doctored bats etc
Once asked Gaylord Perry to sign a jar of Vaseline......Let's just say it did NOT go over well.:oops:
 

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