To Protect and to Serve...

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Life, liberty and pursuit of happiness are not in the Constitution.

Don't take it out of context. Of course that's in the Constitution, but whether that specific statement covers drug use is another matter entirely.

I'm making a more general argument that drug laws as they are today violate the 9th Amendment.

I would actually also argue the 10th as it stands today (especially with the State legal marijuana issue) and lumping in the 4th for the application of said laws.

But potentially the 9th Amendment could cover use. However, I go back to the point of whether or not drug laws have been challenged (successfully) on the basis of a 9th (or even 10th) Amendment interpretation.
 
Eric Garner was choked out and killed in Staten Island for selling loose cigarettes multiple times. The cops that arrested and killed him walked.

Let's focus on the present case. This isn't a tax issue, it's a legal issue as drugs (again) are illegal at the present time.

But for the record, that case should have gone to trial. In case you missed it the first (and multiple times) I said it.
 
Let's focus on the present case. This isn't a tax issue, it's a legal issue as drugs (again) are illegal at the present time.

But for the record, that case should have gone to trial. In case you missed it the first (and multiple times) I said it.

Why are drugs illegal GV? It's always a tax issue. How else do you think leviathan lives.
 
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You're a cop. You gave up on challenging your intellect decades ago.

Ohh, I'm so scalded. Isn't this the point in your limited repertoire where you going to suggest I beat you with a baton?

Just shut up. You don't have the mental capacity to argue anything larger than childish remarks.
 
Why are drugs illegal GV? It's always a tax issue. How else do you think leviathan lives.

If it was a tax issue, everything would be legal and the government would be taxing the crap out of it. Which is the point I've made time and time again that nobody wants to talk about.

It's a moral issue more than anything (not saying that's right, just what it is) rather than a taxation issue.
 
But potentially the 9th Amendment could cover use. However, I go back to the point of whether or not drug laws have been challenged (successfully) on the basis of a 9th (or even 10th) Amendment interpretation.

No they haven't.

Now the ball is in your court as a LEO and/or member of the FOP. Do you all risk your lives, limbs and potentially freedoms (going to jail) over enforcing laws that are right now at the very least questionable as far as violating The Constitution if not out right violating Constitutional rights?

These laws, even by your admittion are border line Constitutional violations. Should you and the rest of your LEO brothers continually place yourselves in a situation where you are putting your freedom and life at risk picking up petty menaces like Freddie Gray? Somebody that you and I admit we really don't give 2 sh**s about and was probably not doing anything at that moment he was arrested that was bothering anybody?
 
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If it was a tax issue, everything would be legal and the government would be taxing the crap out of it. Which is the point I've made time and time again that nobody wants to talk about.

It's a moral issue more than anything (not saying that's right, just what it is) rather than a taxation issue.

It's both at the end of the day. Politicians claim its lack of tax revenue and "safer streets" for the reason for the war on drugs.

Now, I fail to see the morality in banning something just because some politician scribbles something on a piece of paper.
It's clear there is a market for these drugs, they have willing customers. Isn't it immoral to keep something from someone who wants to purchase the product? Sounds like forced morality to me.
I'd love to see that part of the constitution.
 
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At the end of the day, everyone has to live their own life the best way they know how. As long as they're not hurting anyone, I'm not seeing the problem.
Yet, we have this class of people who have no real job to speak of (politicians) who get to enforce their "morality" on the rest of us. It's absurd.
 
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Ohh, I'm so scalded. Isn't this the point in your limited repertoire where you going to suggest I beat you with a baton?

Just shut up. You don't have the mental capacity to argue anything larger than childish remarks.[/QUOTE


Old MacDonald had a farm ei ei o, and on this farm he had a ...
 
There are bigger fish to fry.

Cops don't seem to have that concept in their minds.

In retrospect, wouldn't these cops have had a better day and outcome if they were actually focusing on people that were in the act of robbing/killing/raping or maybe breaking up a fight? Instead, we have cops on patrol that pounce on the first busted taillight, missing tag, breaking up poker or dice games, ruining someone's life over a few joints, or risking live on the roadways chasing down speeders that are 15 mph over or violators of rolling stops.

Imagine the room we would have left in the prisons today if we actually put real criminals in there instead of petty menaces like Freddie Gray and Eric Garner? Imagine how many lives could be turned around in these inner cities if kids were given a second (or third) chance in life without having the burden of a felony on their necks simply for possession or distribution? And I add in distribution because these guys really don't make any money out here... I know. Unless you are talking about a kingpin (which would have connections to supply lines that could only be kept afloat due to corrupt LEO at the borders or port facilities, but that is another debate), most street dealers don't make jack squat.
 
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No they haven't.

Now the ball is in your court as a LEO and/or member of the FOP.

First, for the record, the FOP is a union. Eff them in the ear sideways...twice. Who do you think defends a lot of the cops you rant about on here and keeps them in jobs after they do something despicable?

It's a union. And like all unions are self serving. And they also defend a lot of the bad cops you think should be gone. I can't, don't and will never support them.

Now that's out of the way...

Do you all risk your lives, limbs and potentially freedoms (going to jail) over enforcing laws that are right now at the very least questionable as far as violating The Constitution if not out right violating Constitutional rights? These laws, even by your admittion are border line Constitutional violations. Should you and the rest of your LEO brothers continually place yourselves in a situation where you are putting your freedom and life at risk picking up petty menaces like Freddie Gray? Somebody that you and I admit we really don't give 2 sh**s about and was probably not doing anything at that moment he was arrested that was bothering anybody.

Okay, you said above it's never been challenged in court as a 9th or even 10th Amendment issue. So as of right now, they are against the law. Whether or not it's Constitutional needs to be argued at the highest levels of courts and a decision should be made. But since it's never been argued at that point, how can you say it's Constitutional or not? My opinion is it could be argued as one of those two, although your libertarian side will probably argue against the 10th as well (since it is still governmental control) and you'll press with the 9th. Which you would have a potential case.

But until it gets heard at that level and a ruling is made, it is currently against the law. As are a great many things that don't get enforced. I've seen cops dump a dime bag on the ground and send a person on their way. I've seen them tell a DUI to park the car and call a cab (as I've done as well). Or let countless people go with a verbal warning after they run a stop sign or are speeding. Not every law gets enforced as drastically as Freddy Gray or loose cigarettes. So again, I point to what I said to Mercy a few posts back. 7 of those 18 drug charges were simple possession only. Okay, that still leaves the 11 charges of distribution out there hanging in the breeze that could be argued. Is it right for him to distribute that product? I know your answer in advance, so it's not worth you wasting a few electrons replying.

As to the 9th Amendment issue, it could be argued that way I agree. But until it is, certain substances are still illegal and against the law. Again, that's reality. And LEOs, I might even say a majority of, don't enforce all the laws as they stand today. I've never been bashful of saying there are those that are entirely overzealous in their pursuit of enforcing the law. And I'd never say they are right to come down hard on a suspect because they have a roach clip in the center console. Or the way the 4th Amendment has been twisted into something completely foreign to what it reads. And whether you believe it or not, a lot of LEOs don't take things that far. Some do, which make the news of course, but not all.

I don't agree with a lot of things that happen in the LEO world and have never been bashful about saying it. Of course, this is entirely on you to not twist what I say out of context, take stereotypes out of the conversation and discuss things rationally. I've never stereotyped you or anything you stand for, so a little courtesy would be in order I would think.
 
Yet, we have this class of people who have no real job to speak of (politicians) who get to enforce their "morality" on the rest of us. It's absurd.

Agree with the bolded part. Disagree on the remainder.

I don't think it's morality. It's a hypocrisy issue. Plenty of "moral" politicians (which is a paradox that should destroy the fabric of the universe) that do drugs or imbibe in conduct that many would find wrong.
 
Agree with the bolded part. Disagree on the remainder.

I don't think it's morality. It's a hypocrisy issue. Plenty of "moral" politicians (which is a paradox that should destroy the fabric of the universe) that do drugs or imbibe in conduct that many would find wrong.

I'll agree with that.

However, the law scolds "criminals" who sell/use drugs. They're brain washed into thinking the act they were doing is wrong. Hence the term, rehabilitation. Yet, they're hurting no one, they're actually providing a service to customers.
 
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I'll agree with that.

However, the law scolds "criminals" who sell/use drugs. They're brain washed into thinking the act they were doing is wrong. Hence the term, rehabilitation. Yet, they're hurting no one, they're actually providing a service to customers.

Again, it is illegal. And as I pointed out to Ras (who is probably making a long retort right now) it has yet to be heard on a Constitutional grounds. Or politicians haven't heard the overwhelming masses to change the laws. The second portion could be argued that politicians are out of touch, which I would likely agree, but enough people clamor for change and eventually it happens.

It turns into a soap box, ballot box, ammo box issue.
 
Okay, you said above it's never been challenged in court as a 9th or even 10th Amendment issue. So as of right now, they are against the law. Whether or not it's Constitutional needs to be argued at the highest levels of courts and a decision should be made. But since it's never been argued at that point, how can you say it's Constitutional or not? My opinion is it could be argued as one of those two, although your libertarian side will probably argue against the 10th as well (since it is still governmental control) and you'll press with the 9th. Which you would have a potential case.

I'm making my appeal to you... as an individual. Forget about whether it has been challenged in court or not. The Constitution is the supreme law of the land, period. If a corrupt politician or judicial system makes a law that is unconstitutional, there are still checks and balances in the system. Jury nullification is one of them. Police not enforcing these laws is another.

Cops are the ones at the point of the spear having to deal with the citizens from day to day while the lawmakers can distance themselves from the consequences of their actions.

LEOs have an opportunity right now to take control of this situation and do a lot to bring themselves in the good graces of the public, instead of just hiding behind the mantra of "it's the law, my hands are tied".
 
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Again, it is illegal. And as I pointed out to Ras (who is probably making a long retort right now) it has yet to be heard on a Constitutional grounds. Or politicians haven't heard the overwhelming masses to change the laws. The second portion could be argued that politicians are out of touch, which I would likely agree, but enough people clamor for change and eventually it happens.

It turns into a soap box, ballot box, ammo box issue.

I can actually see the state losing power in the near future. It was incredible to see Marilyn Mosby stand up there and levy the charges against those cops. I'll take accountablity any where I can get it lol

No violent revolution will be required.
 
I'm making my appeal to you... as an individual. Forget about whether it has been challenged in court or not. The Constitution is the supreme law of the land, period. If a corrupt politician or judicial system makes a law that is unconstitutional, there are still checks and balances in the system. Jury nullification is one of them. Police not enforcing these laws is another.

Cops are the ones at the point of the spear having to deal with the citizens from day to day while the lawmakers can distance themselves from the consequences of their actions.

LEOs have an opportunity right now to take control of this situation and do a lot to bring themselves in the good graces of the public, instead of just hiding behind the mantra of "it's the law, my hands are tied".

You don't make appeals to the enemy...but anyway.

I already pointed out a lot of times it doesn't happen as I've seen or done from a personal side. And I've pointed a pathway through this where it gets clarified. And again, I'll point out that this is not a Constitutional issue (yet) and at current, laws are on the books that will be enforced. Whether the level of enforcement is draconian or lenient is a matter of debate. And if you would remove the stereotype that all cops enforce all the laws in a draconian fashion all the time you might actually see it's not as bad as you portray. You narrow your focus to selected cases time and time again instead of looking at a broader picture that many LEOs are more lenient than you give them credit for.
 
Oh gee Bart. Am I a racist and hate crazy people now too? Want to point to the scientific data that proves that point?

Or just STFU and go back to lurking you douche.
Aw c’mon. You have a joke for everyone else and all I get from you is a ‘tude?

You’ve been dodging such questions for weeks; forgive me for the good-natured ribbing
 
Aw c’mon. You have a joke for everyone else and all I get from you is a ‘tude?

You’ve been dodging such questions for weeks; forgive me for the good-natured ribbing

You never asked a question. And by your own admittance you said the public as a whole has no clue how to deal with those mentally ill patients. Yet you single out cops as the root problem of it all and got your panties in a wad enough to go on a two hour posting spree of how ineffective the problems are dealt with. So forgive me if I saw the lack of humor in your post where you singled me out.

And you're also guilty of avoiding questions, so don't play that card.
 
You don't make appeals to the enemy...but anyway.

I already pointed out a lot of times it doesn't happen as I've seen or done from a personal side. And I've pointed a pathway through this where it gets clarified. And again, I'll point out that this is not a Constitutional issue (yet) and at current, laws are on the books that will be enforced. Whether the level of enforcement is draconian or lenient is a matter of debate. And if you would remove the stereotype that all cops enforce all the laws in a draconian fashion all the time you might actually see it's not as bad as you portray. You narrow your focus to selected cases time and time again instead of looking at a broader picture that many LEOs are more lenient than you give them credit for.

Never said "all". I've said "most".
 
You never asked a question. And by your own admittance you said the public as a whole has no clue how to deal with those mentally ill patients. Yet you single out cops as the root problem of it all and got your panties in a wad enough to go on a two hour posting spree of how ineffective the problems are dealt with. So forgive me if I saw the lack of humor in your post where you singled me out.

And you're also guilty of avoiding questions, so don't play that card.
Cops aren't the root cause of society's problems with mental illness, but cops are the ones performing state-sanctioned murder at abominable rates.

Posters in this thread have asked you many times what the cop math is for determining the value of human life. You always deflect one way or another. I just threw out some numbers and asked if they were close.
 
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Cops aren't the root cause of society's problems with mental illness, but cops are the ones performing state-sanctioned murder at abominable rates.

Posters in this thread have asked you many times what the cop math is for determining the value of human life. You always deflect one way or another. I just threw out some numbers and asked if they were close.

This is a serious question?
 
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