To Protect and to Serve...

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#2,576
#2,576
n_huffhines said:
Cost/benefit analysis, homey. It's good to be prepared if it happens. It's terrible to waste resources if it doesn't. It's like investing in lottery tickets.
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I think the issue is that people put a pretty damn high premium on the safety of their kids. Look at the reaction every time there is a school incident.
 
#2,577
#2,577
n_huffhines said:
Cost/benefit analysis, homey. It's good to be prepared if it happens. It's terrible to waste resources if it doesn't. It's like investing in lottery tickets.

My question is if the drill is for police (not students) why did it have to be done in a school. Surely they can simulate this in an empty warehouse.
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Generally its for both the school and the police. And if you want to talk about cost benefits, how long would it take to convert that warehouse into anything that would remotely resemble a school? And at what cost? Because an empty warehouse is just that, empty. No rooms, no furniture, no hallways, no fatal funnels, no blind spots, no doorways...I could go on.

And you tend to want to practice where the real deal might happen.

Again, I agree an announcement could or should have been made at the start. But the comments from the parents reek of anti gun politics. "OMG! The police had a dastardly AR15! OMG! OMG! Think of the children!"
 
#2,578
#2,578
Grand Vol said:
Generally its for both the school and the police. And if you want to talk about cost benefits, how long would it take to convert that warehouse into anything that would remotely resemble a school? And at what cost? Because an empty warehouse is just that, empty. No rooms, no furniture, no hallways, no fatal funnels, no blind spots, no doorways...I could go on.

And you tend to want to practice where the real deal might happen.

Again, I agree an announcement could or should have been made at the start. But the comments from the parents reek of anti gun politics. "OMG! The police had a dastardly AR15! OMG! OMG! Think of the children!"
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Whatever the alternative is (an empty office building?), it should be a cheap one. I'm sure there is something more reasonable, but it's a useless tangent to argue.

Considering it's 100,000 to 1 odds, I don't think they need to be so thoroughly trained they do it where the real deal might happen. I'm sure there is more than 1 school in the district. To be prepared for the real deal, do they need to run exercises in every school?

I think it's reasonable to take the position that what the cops did isn't that big of a deal, but I don't think anybody can reasonably take the position that this was a good idea.
 
#2,579
#2,579
Grand Vol said:
Generally its for both the school and the police. And if you want to talk about cost benefits, how long would it take to convert that warehouse into anything that would remotely resemble a school? And at what cost? Because an empty warehouse is just that, empty. No rooms, no furniture, no hallways, no fatal funnels, no blind spots, no doorways...I could go on.

And you tend to want to practice where the real deal might happen.

Again, I agree an announcement could or should have been made at the start. But the comments from the parents reek of anti gun politics. "OMG! The police had a dastardly AR15! OMG! OMG! Think of the children!"
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In fairness to them the whole thing probably just brings too close to home for them the possibility of this happening to their child. You used to have to worry about meningitis offing your 14 year old. Then you had to worry about drug dealers and drive byes. Now you have to worry about Little Johnny in the class next door having a bad day and toting in his Dad's glock.
 
#2,580
#2,580
n_huffhines said:
Whatever the alternative is (an empty office building?), it should be a cheap one. I'm sure there is something more reasonable, but it's a useless tangent to argue.

Considering it's 100,000 to 1 odds, I don't think they need to be so thoroughly trained they do it where the real deal might happen. I'm sure there is more than 1 school in the district. To be prepared for the real deal, do they need to run exercises in every school?

I think it's reasonable to take the position that what the cops did isn't that big of a deal, but I don't think anybody can reasonably take the position that this was a good idea.
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What are the odds a cop fires their weapon in the line of duty?

So should they stop qualifying on their weapons since it's a remote chance of that as well?
 
#2,581
#2,581
lawgator1 said:
In fairness to them the whole thing probably just brings too close to home for them the possibility of this happening to their child. You used to have to worry about meningitis offing your 14 year old. Then you had to worry about drug dealers and drive byes. Now you have to worry about Little Johnny in the class next door having a bad day and toting in his Dad's glock.
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I can understand the principle of that. But these things, if announced well in advance, loses the edge of surprise and you can't get a good read on how long your officers will take to respond to such incidents.

There is a huge difference in the two. I've seen that firsthand.
 
#2,582
#2,582
lawgator1 said:
In fairness to them the whole thing probably just brings too close to home for them the possibility of this happening to their child. You used to have to worry about meningitis offing your 14 year old. Then you had to worry about drug dealers and drive byes. Now you have to worry about Little Johnny in the class next door having a bad day and toting in his Dad's glock.
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And I'm surprised you are sober enough to post today. Celebration over that quickly?
 
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#2,583
#2,583
Grand Vol said:
And I'm surprised you are sober enough to post today. Celebration over that quickly?
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#2,584
#2,584
lawgator1 said:
In fairness to them the whole thing probably just brings too close to home for them the possibility of this happening to their child. You used to have to worry about meningitis offing your 14 year old. Then you had to worry about drug dealers and drive byes. Now you have to worry about Little Johnny in the class next door having a bad day and toting in his Dad's glock.
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If I had to worry about all of that in my kid's school I'd move to a better neighborhood.
 
#2,585
#2,585
Grand Vol said:
What are the odds a cop fires their weapon in the line of duty?

So should they stop qualifying on their weapons since it's a remote chance of that as well?
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I think the chances that they draw their weapons are pretty good, plus they carry them all the time, so I think they should know how to use them.

Not a valid comparison, IMO.
 
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#2,586
#2,586
uhm, did i read a different article than everyone else? what i read was that there was 1 additional officer on site.

and did it go into specifics on what the drill actually entailed? I had a number of unannounced drills in high school and never freaked,and didn't know anyone who did, and I went to school in a rough area. heck our school building got shot during the day and nobody freaked. and this was a private school.

this is one of the problems with the complete ban on guns, misinformation is way too easy spread. No one understands guns so they assume the only times guns are ever carried is to kill someone. spending a month in a rural area would do wonders for these people so freaked by guns.
 
#2,587
#2,587
One time my school got a bomb threat and like you said, no one was scared. We all got escorted out onto the football field and sat around for an hour. Didn't make any sense to me. If there were an actual terrorist, he could put a small bomb at the 50 yard line and get the whole school.
 
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#2,589
#2,589
n_huffhines said:
I think the chances that they draw their weapons are pretty good, plus they carry them all the time, so I think they should know how to use them.

Not a valid comparison, IMO.
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It's an entirely valid comparison. You practice for things that could happen as well as the things that might. And note I said "firing" their weapon in the line of duty, not drawing it.

Here's the problem. Say something did happen. Some kid decided to go off and start shooting up the school. And the cops, with zero practice and training completely bungled the situation. People like you would be the first one on here *****ing about "they should have been practicing for this! Stupid cops should have known it could happen!"

So I resort back to my original point. Damned if they do, damned if they don't. If they do practice it, you complain about scaring the children. If they don't and kids die without a proper response during a real situation, you complain about the cops not doing what they are supposed to be doing.
 
#2,590
#2,590
n_huffhines said:
One time my school got a bomb threat and like you said, no one was scared. We all got escorted out onto the football field and sat around for an hour. Didn't make any sense to me. If there were an actual terrorist, he could put a small bomb at the 50 yard line and get the whole school.
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it was similar at my school with a shooting threat, they gathered the entire school and made us sit in the cafeteria all day with only 4 teachers guarding the entrances to the cafeteria, while the rest of the teachers stayed in their class rooms. 600+ kids in a tight space makes a nice target.
 
#2,591
#2,591
LouderVol said:
it was similar at my school with a shooting threat, they gathered the entire school and made us sit in the cafeteria all day with only 4 teachers guarding the entrances to the cafeteria, while the rest of the teachers stayed in their class rooms. 600+ kids in a tight space makes a nice target.
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The thing that ****ed me up is they ultimately dismissed us for the rest of the day, and when I was leaving there was a student pulled over with his engine on fire. Just a coincidence, but in the moment I was like, "CAR BOMB!!!"
 
#2,592
#2,592
n_huffhines said:
The thing that ****ed me up is they ultimately dismissed us for the rest of the day, and when I was leaving there was a student pulled over with his engine on fire. Just a coincidence, but in the moment I was like, "CAR BOMB!!!"
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The good thing (if there is ever such a thing with threats) is that most school incidents aren't involving explosive devices.

And I pray to God it never becomes commonplace.
 
#2,593
#2,593
Grand Vol said:
The good thing (if there is ever such a thing with threats) is that most school incidents aren't involving explosive devices.

And I pray to God it never becomes commonplace.
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Once a week here, as of late. 3 times in the last 2 months at my son's school. (Mostly just notes left in the bathroom(s).)
 
#2,594
#2,594
Obsessed said:
Once a week here, as of late. 3 times in the last 2 months at my son's school. (Mostly just notes left in the bathroom(s).)
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Kids typically.

I was referring to the actual act of placing a device or a secondary device. Which is something I preached and ranted against while I was active. Each and every facility typically went to the same spot every time. Such things become a predictable pattern and can be exploited.

Ties in with what Huff was saying. You go to the same place every time and you make a larger target.
 
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#2,595
#2,595
Grand Vol said:
Kids typically.

I was referring to the actual act of placing a device or a secondary device. Which is something I preached and ranted against while I was active. Each and every facility typically went to the same spot every time. Such things become a predictable pattern and can be exploited.

Ties in with what Huff was saying. You go to the same place every time and you make a larger target.
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I got ya.



I just know this whole school bombing crap is getting old. Bomb squad and swat shows up. I think at first that scared my son more than anything. (Now, not so much) he's made friends with a few of the officers. (End rant)
 
#2,599
#2,599
They did however get part of this right, they held the training at an empty facility. Perhaps having this training on the weekend when no one is at the school nearby would be a better idea.

I do understand the need for proper training.

Edit: school location. Point stands however.
 
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