To Protect and to Serve...

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#1,178
#1,178
This does being up a very good point. Most people do not know their rights. Cops use that to their advantage.
In my interactions with police (I have no criminal record) they tend to back off when you assert your rights.
 
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#1,179
#1,179
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
I will admit I have seen some decent cops and I have also seen some power drunk monsters.
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Problem being is that is not limited to just LEO. That can (and often will) be in any kind of position of authority be it in government or private sector.

DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
I've never liked the assumed guilt that cops use. Say you get pulled over, chances are you'll be asked, do you have any drugs or guns in the car. So a traffic violation automatically makes someone a criminal?
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Technically....yes. It IS a violation. Criminal is a loose term though. Having said that to say this, I'd be willing to bet half the traffic stops I've done in my time were what we called fishing expeditions. You find a headlight out, you are being polite in advising said driver to replace said headlight. And by the way, did you happen to know you have a felony warrant out of Arizona for aggravated assault and domestic battery? Can you step out of the car with your hands over your head?

Otherwise, please replace said headlight and have a good night.

The obvious answer to an officer that asks the questions of "guns/drugs" is no. And the answer to the follow up question of "can I search your vehicle" is, again, no. But being polite, don't aggravate the situation, polite compliance with the demands that can be made (license, registration, etc) and polite declining of those demands that are not legal (searches of vehicles).
 
#1,181
#1,181
MercyPercy said:
Are you denying this is a common occurrence?

I need an answer to this question before I set you up to look like a total jackwagon. :)
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Define "common."

Does it happen? Probably yes. Is it quite as frequent as you probably claim it to be?

No.
 
#1,182
#1,182
Grand Vol said:
Problem being is that is not limited to just LEO. That can (and often will) be in any kind of position of authority be it in government or private sector.



Technically....yes. It IS a violation. Criminal is a loose term though. Having said that to say this, I'd be willing to bet half the traffic stops I've done in my time were what we called fishing expeditions. You find a headlight out, you are being polite in advising said driver to replace said headlight. And by the way, did you happen to know you have a felony warrant out of Arizona for aggravated assault and domestic battery? Can you step out of the car with your hands over your head?

Otherwise, please replace said headlight and have a good night.

The obvious answer to an officer that asks the questions of "guns/drugs" is no. And the answer to the follow up question of "can I search your vehicle" is, again, no. But being polite, don't aggravate the situation, polite compliance with the demands that can be made (license, registration, etc) and polite declining of those demands that are not legal (searches of vehicles).
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Glad you used that term not me "fishing expedition"
Stopping someone for a broken tail light does not give you probable cause to search someone's vehicle. We know the drill though, "I think I smell weed" or better yet if it's a k9 cop just get the dog to give a false alert. Right?
 
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#1,185
#1,185
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Glad you used that term not me "fishing expedition"
Stopping someone for a broken tail light does not give you probable cause to search someone's vehicle. We know the drill though, "I think I smell weed" or better yet if it's a k9 cop just get the dog to give a false alert. Right?
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I think I covered the search portion in the second paragraph. No, the probable cause things does not apply unless other criminal activity is uncovered. Like say the warrant as I mentioned. Traffic infractions are not reason enough for probable cause.

The smell weed thing is like walking a tightrope. The LEO had best be on their game if they use that as a basis for a PC search.

As for the false response by the K9, that also has serious liabilities involved too. If a K9 has a history of false responses, a good lawyer can get the case thrown out as long as that credibility is called into question. And very likely could get previous cases involving said dog tossed as well if they pushed it.
 
#1,186
#1,186
Good points. But then again, as we've discussed, how many people actually know their rights? More times than not, the guy/gal gets the conviction.

It's really unbelievable how policing would change if we simply legalized drugs. As a former cop, I guess you are, what percentage of our prison population would you guess were locked up for drugs or drug related offenses?
 
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#1,187
#1,187
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Good points. But then again, as we've discussed, how many people actually know their rights? More times than not, the guy/gal gets the conviction.

It's really unbelievable how policing would change if we simply legalized drugs. As a former cop, I guess you are, what percentage of our prison population would you guess were locked up for drugs or drug related offenses?
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Can't put a number on it. But you would run into the issue of whether or not the person(s) could be pardoned since what they did at the time was illegal. So those already serving time would finish their sentence.

Over time they may clear out, but you would need to take other related crimes into consideration as well. Impaired driving for example since the chances of that rising with the legalization are likely. Or assault while under the influence, etc. I'm not entirely positive you'd see a drastic downturn in prison population just by legalizing drugs.
 
#1,189
#1,189
I would imagine driving while stoned will be tested the same way DUI stops are now.
I actually read an article the other day where some government agency was testing limits. Yes, they were getting people high and letting them use a driving simulator lol
Can't find the link.

Legalization is just around the corner I feel.

I'm not a drug user btw
I can neither confirm or deny former use though lol
 
#1,190
#1,190
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
I would honestly say a good 60-70% of people in prison today are there because of the drug war.
Until we treat drug addiction as the medical condition it truly is, we will continue to be the country with the highest incarceration rate in the world.

United States incarceration rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If there is no victim, there is no crime.
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To me, there's more to it than legalization though. It's not an easy mountain to climb I'll agree. But there will be unintended consequences of legalization of what's currently illegal. And before you ask, I can't give you a good answer on it. Hell, I'd be for legalization just to see if it works at this point.

But do you really want the federal government dicking around even more in the economy by regulating yet another product? :p
 
#1,191
#1,191
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
I would imagine driving while stoned will be tested the same way DUI stops are now.
I actually read an article the other day where some government agency was testing limits. Yes, they were getting people high and letting them use a driving simulator lol
Can't find the link.

Legalization is just around the corner I feel.

I'm not a drug user btw
I can neither confirm or deny former use though lol
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I recall seeing how Colorado was having issues with that after the passed the legalization. I don't know if they came up with a good answer.
 
#1,192
#1,192
Grand Vol said:
To me, there's more to it than legalization though. It's not an easy mountain to climb I'll agree. But there will be unintended consequences of legalization of what's currently illegal. And before you ask, I can't give you a good answer on it. Hell, I'd be for legalization just to see if it works at this point.

But do you really want the federal government dicking around even more in the economy by regulating yet another product? :p
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No not really, but if it helps communities then I'd actually be for it as shocking as that may sound lol
People don't realize just how racist drug laws are. I'm saying this as a 39 year old white man. If I was caught with a gram of cocaine, I might get probation or possibly some jail time, nothing major. Now, if a black male is caught with the same cocaine, only in crack form, they'll throw the book at him. That in my mind is racist.

Perhaps drug addiction will one day be covered by an insurance company.
 
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#1,193
#1,193
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#1,195
#1,195
n_huffhines said:
tOzltmU.gif
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Lol.
 
#1,196
#1,196
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
No not really, but if it helps communities then I'd actually be for it as shocking as that may sound lol
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And what are the likelihoods of that actually happening?

Government actually giving back to the community as a whole? Novel idea, but the stuff of dreamers.
 
#1,199
#1,199
tim said:
No, its just not as newsworthy. LE does great things all day every day.
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To be honest here I've seen more news stories lately reporting the good deeds of LEO. Your right that it's not as newsworthy as the bad stuff which gets "all" the headlines.
 
#1,200
#1,200
W.TN.Orange Blood said:
To be honest here I've seen more news stories lately reporting the good deeds of LEO. Your right that it's not as newsworthy as the bad stuff which gets "all" the headlines.
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It's simply not news because LEO's do good/great things so frequently. Personally, I wouldnt want any of my good deeds publicized because publicity is not what I seek. Im sure many feel the same way, but when administrators catch wind of these good deeds they seize an opportunity to conduct dog and pony shows.
 
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