To Protect and to Serve...

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#1,152
#1,152
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
You know, we had some decent gun related discussions in the past. Why you have me pegged as someone to give a rash of sh*t I'll never know.
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I'm sure we could have some decent gun related discussions in the future...although I'm not a fan of Nutnfancy at all as that man needs to learn that YouTube videos over 15 minutes generally can need to be cropped down considerably.
 
#1,153
#1,153
Never cared much for him myself. I guess you are referring to the vid I posted in the armory thread.
Felt it actually did a good job describing shoot/no-shoot scenarios and what an armed person might face. Most people just spend time at a range and shoot at non moving targets as that's usually the only thing available in their area.
 
#1,154
#1,154
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Never cared much for him myself. I guess you are referring to the vid I posted in the armory thread.
Felt it actually did a good job describing shoot/no-shoot scenarios and what an armed person might face. Most people just spend time at a range and shoot at non moving targets as that's usually the only thing available in their area.
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We had a similar system when I was in Colorado. Probably the granddaddy of what he was using. It's LE based for the most part, but can be a useful tool. The problem you run into with systems like that is the limited amount of scenarios one can run through. Even with variables programmed into the simulations, the trainee tends to pick up on what will happen and ends up being able to predict the outcome and game it out.

It's good for one or two times, but for long term sustainment training it's not really viable. Fun though.
 
#1,155
#1,155
For the record, I do not hate all cops. I have seen some good cops as well as bad.
I just feel cops generally do a very poor job of "policing their own" if you will.

People need to understand that a cop is not bound by law to protect you. As well as the fact that a cop can now legally lie to you as well.
 
#1,157
#1,157
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
For the record, I do not hate all cops. I have seen some good cops as well as bad.
I just feel cops generally do a very poor job of "policing their own" if you will.

People need to understand that a cop is not bound by law to protect you. As well as the fact that a cop can now legally lie to you as well.
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I think the fact that the vast majority of LEOs are good and decent people trying to do a difficult job is overlooked. And a few bad apples tend to spoil the bunch. And there is a lot of "policing" that goes on behind the scenes. Far more than you might give credit for. Eventually the bad ones get rooted out. It's just not an overnight process in an era of instant gratification.
 
#1,158
#1,158
I agree with that to an extent. But, you have to admit it enrages people to see cops violate someone's rights, or kill someone and get put on what amounts to a paid vacation.

Plus, you have the militarization of police that's going on. Stuff that's just way over the top. C'mon APC's for a small town?
 
#1,160
#1,160
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Links for my statements in case someone needs proof.

Are police allowed to lie? - Police Encounters - Know My Rights
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Oh, come on. Really? A suspect during questioning has already waived their 5th Amendment Rights to protect themselves against incrimination. First, they don't have to answer questions without legal representation present. Second, they can stop the questioning at any time. Third, they are a moron for speaking without said legal representation anyway.

Is that really lying? Or an officer using tools to get a confession?

As for the undercover thing...that's kind of the point of "undercover" work. Getting evidence that a crime is being committed and certain people are committing the crime. It kind of defeats the purpose of undercover work if they have to tell the truth about being a LEO.

DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html

Second link wouldn't cooperate copy/paste
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Unfamiliar with the second case. But the SCOTUS doesn't always get the choices right.
 
#1,165
#1,165
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
I agree with that to an extent. But, you have to admit it enrages people to see cops violate someone's rights, or kill someone and get put on what amounts to a paid vacation.
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But more often than not as I pointed out earlier, most of the times all you see is outrage, cops suck, JBT coming to get you, rant, rant, rant.

And exactly zero follow up on the case afterwards. So for once I'd actually like someone to at least follow their outrage to a conclusion and find out what happened in the long run.

DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Plus, you have the militarization of police that's going on. Stuff that's just way over the top. C'mon APC's for a small town?
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I am on the fence with some of the stuff as I stated before. Probably 99% of the time those vehicles in those small towns are pulled out for parades and shown at schools for the kids to play on. And little more. It's a new play toy for a Police Chief or Sheriff to show off and extremely rarely used. And this is where Ras jumps in and starts posting his two links, but anyway. There are a few exceptions to the rule, but not many. Otherwise, I'd be surprised if the vast majority of those vehicles get more than a hundred miles a year on the odometer.

Some gear is highly useful. Body armor, communications, computer equipment, even weapons. The Miami shootout with the FBI in 1986 and the North Hollywood shootout in 1997 showed how massively undergunned responding officers were to those types of situations. Just those two off the top of my head since they are the highest profile as I'm sure there are others. You know firearms and you know a pistol is good for fighting your way to a rifle. And when you have determined suspects that are using superior weaponry, it's better to have like firepower to respond with. It's the case of have and not need rather than the militarization of police.

And yes, there are cases where that rule has been seriously violated.
 
#1,168
#1,168
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
You know as well as I do a cop will basically tell a suspect anything to get a confession.

You know the routine
"If you come clean now, I can help you"
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And if you have a suspect that's gullible enough to believe that, I think the world might be better with them behind bars. Gets stupid criminals off the street, behind bars and everyone is happy.

Anyone that's watched more than fifteen minutes of CSI knows that playbook, or should.

If it's such a big deal to you with this whole lying thing, how come it's never come up in court? What would a defense attorney do anyway?

"Your Honor, my client was lied to by the police and they got his confession by lying to him!"

"Did he waive his 5th Amendment Rights?"

"Well, yes, but they lied!"

"And he knew he didn't have to say anything without you around?"

"Technically yes, but they lied!"

How far is that going to get a defense attorney?
 
#1,169
#1,169
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
He never swore an oath to the constitution. Just saying...
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And how many cops outside of the movies will continue to try to get a confession after a suspect has invoked their 5th Amendment Rights?

That's one of the reasons interviews are recorded these days.
 
#1,171
#1,171
Grand Vol said:
And how many cops outside of the movies will continue to try to get a confession after a suspect has invoked their 5th Amendment Rights?

That's one of the reasons interviews are recorded these days.
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They'll conveniently only record the parts of the interrogation that suits them and "lose" the rest of the tape.

Interesting phenomenon.
 
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#1,172
#1,172
I make no excuses for the system. As you know, I'm an anarchist.

I have actually came a long way in my thinking about cops. I used to feel there were only bad cops and silent cops.

I will admit I have seen some decent cops and I have also seen some power drunk monsters.

I've never liked the assumed guilt that cops use. Say you get pulled over, chances are you'll be asked, do you have any drugs or guns in the car. So a traffic violation automatically makes someone a criminal?
 
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#1,173
#1,173
MercyPercy said:
I'm not even going to say anything, and let everyone else bask in the failure that is the argument you're attempting to put forth.

:hi:
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Translation = "I shall resort to claiming you failed since I can't offer a good defense of what I posted."

Job well done.
 
#1,175
#1,175
Grand Vol said:
And if you have a suspect that's gullible enough to believe that, I think the world might be better with them behind bars. Gets stupid criminals off the street, behind bars and everyone is happy.

Anyone that's watched more than fifteen minutes of CSI knows that playbook, or should.

If it's such a big deal to you with this whole lying thing, how come it's never come up in court? What would a defense attorney do anyway?

"Your Honor, my client was lied to by the police and they got his confession by lying to him!"

"Did he waive his 5th Amendment Rights?"

"Well, yes, but they lied!"

"And he knew he didn't have to say anything without you around?"

"Technically yes, but they lied!"

How far is that going to get a defense attorney?
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Great, you're advocating using your knowledge of the law to incriminate scared and confused citizens who may or may not understand what is happening.

Cops are heroes.
 
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