To Protect and to Serve...

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#10,701
#10,701
Grand Vol said:
Actually, I consider you one of the more rational posters in this thread. (believe it or not)

I don't see you making veiled comments like:



Especially in light of something like this going on:



You may have some goofy political views, but even you know that violence against LEOs is not going to end well for anyone involved. The "people" won't have a great awakening and start to tar and feather cops just because. If cops start getting specifically targeted, they aren't just going to back off. They will get far more jumpy, more on edge and far more willing to err on the side of caution when going into a potentially dangerous situation.

You're a smart guy DTH. And deep down you know where this path leads even if you won't admit it.
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It comes down to people having enough balls to question authority. I don't call for violence against anyone, other than people who initiate violence against me. The question is the validity of the law. A thinking person cannot just say "well, it's in the constitution, it's just that way." What gives these laws their validity?
People make choices, they should be left to deal with the outcome good/bad. Just because something is "against the law" doesn't seem to help anything.

As for me, I fully support Lysander Spooners argument. "Either the constitution has authorized such a government as we have had, or it's been powerless to to prevent it." Paraphrasing of course.
 
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#10,702
#10,702
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
It comes down to people having enough balls to question authority. I don't call for violence against anyone, other than people who initiate violence against me. The question is the validity of the law. A thinking person cannot just say "well, it's in the constitution, it's just that way." What gives these laws their validity?
People make choices, they should be left to deal with the outcome good/bad. Just because something is "against the law" doesn't seem to help anything.

As for me, I fully support Lysander Spooners argument. "Either the constitution has authorized such a government as we have had, or it's been powerless to to prevent it." Paraphrasing of course.
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I've got that. And that's a bedrock principle of your political philosophy. Don't agree with it (mostly) but it is what it is and we agree to disagree.

My point is that wanting violence against LEOs specifically will lead down a path that nobody can imagine. Nobody wants the status quo either, so I accept that. But there is a non-violent way of getting cops to "back off." And it's already been used two times and appears to work pretty well. NYC and Baltimore Police both lost their political backing in the aftermath of the situations there. And basically pulled back and went hands off on a great many things. Now sure, they still investigate crimes and whatnot, but basic policing that many of you complain about on here? Came to a screeching halt.

So you cannot tell me there isn't a political solution to be had in the alleged police "problems" in this nation. There is, it's worked and it's pretty much what you and others tend to clamor for. So this whole idea of violence against LEOs is stupid when non-violent methods are available and should be exhausted.

I have no idea who Lysander Spooner is. You've never mentioned him before. :)
 
#10,703
#10,703
I have a firm belief that you cannot fix government with government. You only get more laws and regulations that benefit the few while oppressing many. That's how government works. They add nothing to society, they only take. At the end of the day, we are talking about a parasitic political class.

What we should be questioning, other than the validity question I posed earlier, is the prison industrial complex that has contracts with government to have incarceration quotas. That's why there is such a push of the immoral drug war and other victim less crimes. Prison is big business in this country. We have more people in prison here than anywhere else in the world. That speaks volumes as to the state of our "justice system."

Violence never solves anything, from either side. You simply end up with dead people. Don't we have enough of that with the government waging endless wars on seemingly every continent of the globe.

There must be a re-examination of the laws in this country. Or, this system will eat itself.
 
#10,704
#10,704
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
I have a firm belief that you cannot fix government with government. You only get more laws and regulations that benefit the few while oppressing many. That's how government works. They add nothing to society, they only take. At the end of the day, we are talking about a parasitic political class.

What we should be questioning, other than the validity question I posed earlier, is the prison industrial complex that has contracts with government to have incarceration quotas. That's why there is such a push of the immoral drug war and other victim less crimes. Prison is big business in this country. We have more people in prison here than anywhere else in the world. That speaks volumes as to the state of our "justice system."

Violence never solves anything, from either side. You simply end up with dead people. Don't we have enough of that with the government waging endless wars on seemingly every continent of the globe.

There must be a re-examination of the laws in this country. Or, this system will eat itself.
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I'm pretty sure it was TJ who said something about a revolution every 40-50 years or so. It's not a bad concept save the way revolutions are normally waged.
 
#10,705
#10,705
Grand Vol said:
I'm pretty sure it was TJ who said something about a revolution every 40-50 years or so. It's not a bad concept save the way revolutions are normally waged.
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Actually it was 20 years. Also, that quote about the "tree of liberty" being refreshed was not in reference to the British. It was actually referring to the American government after shays rebellion, and the whiskey rebellion.
 
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#10,706
#10,706
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Actually it was 20 years. Also, that quote about the "tree of liberty" being refreshed was not in reference to the British. It was actually referring to the American government after shays rebellion, and the whiskey rebellion.
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Why did I know you'd have the exact quotes tattooed on your brain?
 
#10,708
#10,708
Grand Vol said:
I'm pretty sure it was TJ who said something about a revolution every 40-50 years or so. It's not a bad concept save the way revolutions are normally waged.
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It could lead to an interesting discussion, why have Americans allowed their freedoms to go by the wayside? Freedom, like muscles, atrophy over time without use. I find TJ's statement fascinating, especially considering how would the current government feel about such things. As well as why are these things not taught in school? I think we know the answer.

Has America sacrificed freedom for security? It sure seems so, especially when you consider the original intent of the American Revolution. It was a revolution alright, right back to oligarchy.
 
#10,709
#10,709
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
It could lead to an interesting discussion, why have Americans allowed their freedoms to go by the wayside? Freedom, like muscles, atrophy over time without use. I find TJ's statement fascinating, especially considering how would the current government feel about such things. As well as why are these things not taught in school? I think we know the answer.

Has America sacrificed freedom for security? It sure seems so, especially when you consider the original intent of the American Revolution. It was a revolution alright, right back to oligarchy.
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Easiest answer? The boiling frog analogy. Take a little each time and nobody notices. Turn up the heat incrementally and the frog boils to death.

Same principles. People don't realize what they are missing until it's gone.
 
#10,710
#10,710
Grand Vol said:
Easiest answer? The boiling frog analogy. Take a little each time and nobody notices. Turn up the heat incrementally and the frog boils to death.

Same principles. People don't realize what they are missing until it's gone.
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I can agree with that. Couldn't it also be the access to political power? After all, that's why people elect these crooks. Because they want their views imposed on others. Political power is dangerous in any form, because it exercises the will of the majority over the minority.

We must also remember, behind every law, stands a man with a gun to enforce these laws.
 
#10,711
#10,711
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
I can agree with that. Couldn't it also be the access to political power? After all, that's why people elect these crooks. Because they want their views imposed on others. Political power is dangerous in any form, because it exercises the will of the majority over the minority.
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Oh, don't get me wrong. We've fallen straight into an oligarchy for certain. I was merely stating the "why" we've fallen back into an oligarchy. At least to my opinion.

And honestly, I think that's why the mainstream GOP hates Trump so much. He's an outsider. He doesn't fit into their carefully chosen paradigm so they shun him. Other than the crazy money he has, he's merely saying what's on his mind (for the most part) like you or I would. I mean, he calls Obama stupid. How many on here have said the same thing save the selected few? Now he does so for media exposure, but at the same time, he's not sugar coating anything. And the power brokers hate that.
 
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#10,712
#10,712
Grand Vol said:
Oh, don't get me wrong. We've fallen straight into an oligarchy for certain. I was merely stating the "why" we've fallen back into an oligarchy. At least to my opinion.

And honestly, I think that's why the mainstream GOP hates Trump so much. He's an outsider. He doesn't fit into their carefully chosen paradigm so they shun him. Other than the crazy money he has, he's merely saying what's on his mind (for the most part) like you or I would. I mean, he calls Obama stupid. How many on here have said the same thing save the selected few? Now he does so for media exposure, but at the same time, he's not sugar coating anything. And the power brokers hate that.
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I understand. Although, I'll admit I don't really follow politics any longer. 2012 taught me a lot, and really solidified my anarchism. That was the last election In which I plan to participate.

I find great truth in this H.L. Mencken quote.

"Every election is a sort of advance auction sale of stolen goods."
 
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#10,713
#10,713
Grand Vol said:
Oh, don't get me wrong. We've fallen straight into an oligarchy for certain. I was merely stating the "why" we've fallen back into an oligarchy. At least to my opinion.

And honestly, I think that's why the mainstream GOP hates Trump so much. He's an outsider. He doesn't fit into their carefully chosen paradigm so they shun him. Other than the crazy money he has, he's merely saying what's on his mind (for the most part) like you or I would. I mean, he calls Obama stupid. How many on here have said the same thing save the selected few? Now he does so for media exposure, but at the same time, he's not sugar coating anything. And the power brokers hate that.
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#10,714
#10,714
Grand Vol said:
So go out, buy a gun and kill a few cops if you think that will help start your little revolution and open people's eyes. Don't be an online ***** that just talks, sack up and take action. You're so convinced killing cops will make the rest back off, go kill a few and start your little revolution so society will follow. You are convinced people are sick and tired of all cops being fascist and all. You might as well be remembered as the guy that started the revolt against the fascist state.
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First off... I wouldn't have to buy one. And that's not me trying to be a badass. If I had to guess, you probably own at least twice the guns I do. I only own a handful. With that said I rarely leave the house without one.

Either way... That's a wonderful response to the straw-man you made up to represent my argument. Based on the fact that it got a like, it actually fooled one of these dingleberries. I'd much rather have a discussion based on the things I actually said though.

At no point did I never say anything about killing anyone. I'm simply talking about starting to forcibly defend ourselves against an aggressor. What all it takes to defend ourselves would be totally up to the initial aggressor. Like I said in my post (that is if you wanna talk about the things I actually did said), I'd love it if we could get there without anyone stubbing a toe. I just assume if freedom is to ever be seen, it'll take a hell of a lot more than that. What that level of aggression is? When it happens (like I said may be tomorrow, may be 30 years, hell it may never happen) the amount of force it takes to get there will be totally up them.
 
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#10,715
#10,715
Cdywolfe said:
First off... I wouldn't have to buy one. And that's not me trying to be a badass. If I had to guess, you probably own at least twice the guns I do. I only own a handful. With that said I rarely leave the house without one.

Either way... That's a wonderful response to the straw-man you made up to represent my argument. Based on the fact that it got a like, it actually fooled one of these dingleberries. I'd much rather have a discussion based on the things I actually said though.

At no point did I never say anything about killing anyone. I'm simply talking about starting to forcibly defend ourselves against an aggressor. What all it takes to defend ourselves would be totally up to the initial aggressor. Like I said in my post (that is if you wanna talk about the things I actually did said), I'd love it if we could get there without anyone stubbing a toe. I just assume if freedom is to ever be seen, it'll take a hell of a lot more than that. What that level of aggression is? When it happens (like I said may be tomorrow, may be 30 years, hell it may never happen) the amount of force it takes to get there will be totally up them.
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Well, you whined I didn't make contributions to this thread. So I contributed and called you out on your thinly veiled hints of violence. And of course, you are in full backtrack mode because "that's not what I meant! Boo hoo, GV is being mean by interpreting my vague posts!"

Sorry dude, but your wording shouldn't have been that ambiguous if that's not what you "really" meant. But I'll stand by my original interpretation of what you said.

Oh, and I wouldn't be all that concerned about likes or the simpletons that like my posts. I mean, they like yours so there's no accounting for taste or intelligence.
 
#10,719
#10,719
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#10,720
#10,720
Grand Vol said:
So go out, buy a gun and kill a few cops if you think that will help start your little revolution and open people's eyes. Don't be an online ***** that just talks, sack up and take action. You're so convinced killing cops will make the rest back off, go kill a few and start your little revolution so society will follow. You are convinced people are sick and tired of all cops being fascist and all. You might as well be remembered as the guy that started the revolt against the fascist state.
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Real talk, I think some people out here have already taken you up on that offer.

Now you can call it media manipulation or genuine outrage, but the truth is that police have done very little to help their cause or to at least try to mend fences with the public.
 
#10,724
#10,724
Rasputin_Vol said:
How do you expect some people to react when a cop in an unmarked car chases you down (speeding) and hands you a ticket? That wouldn't necessarily be my reaction because cops tend to shoot black people, but I can understand her frustration. But hey, like the video says, he was just doing it for the kids I guess...
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Can you truly not see where she is completely in the wrong?

I mean, real talk here. Are you seriously that far gone in your hatred to not see how dangerous doing 50+ in a school zone really is?
 
#10,725
#10,725
Grand Vol said:
Can you truly not see where she is completely in the wrong?

I mean, real talk here. Are you seriously that far gone in your hatred to see how dangerous doing 50+ in a school zone really is?
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She was speeding. I agree with you on that. In this case, I would actually agree that if you were going to hand out a ticket, this would be the situation and time to do it.

All I said was is anyone really surprised at her reaction that an unmarked cop car would cross lanes of traffic and speed behind her (endangering not just kids but other drivers as well) to hand her this ticket?
 
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