To Protect and to Serve II

#5,751
#5,751
Rasputin_Vol said:
I think the legalization of drugs of legalization of certain drugs is a separate debate. I guess my point is why is money even being confiscated when it is highly likely that it was not stolen but obtained through fair commerce. I have no issue with the state returning property to the rightful owner. I'm just wondering why there is a need to keep property that isn't obtained through guile or theft.
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It's my bad. I got asset forfeiture and seizure mixed up.
 
#5,752
#5,752
orangeblood79 said:
You've always operated under this narrative that drug dealing is not only legal but ok. I've worked 3 OD's this week alone, you're never going to convince me that anything other than weed should be legal (which I do...legalize it and tax the sh!t out of it). I'm not going down this rabbit hole either, we've had this conversation before and neither of us are going to budge.

And if the person whose money is seized wishes to provide proof that he obtained this money through legal means, it's rightfully theirs and therefore should be returned.
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I can’t tell you how many patients I’ve taken care of who’ve overdosed on legit prescription opiates, yet I don’t see swat teams raiding the Walgreens at 3 am and buying new police cruisers with the money they find in the registers. So let’s please not pretend like this has anything to do with public safety.
 
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#5,753
#5,753
Ras, Cdy, and others who may not like the laws in effect...and those who are charged with enforcing them...but are capable of having a mature discussion about it: I get where you're coming from. In some cases, I agree with you, and in others, I don't. We're seeing the same issues from different perspectives. Weed, for example. I was dead set against it for decades. Gateway drug. Reefer Madness. Stoners all over the place.

And yet...it has a valid medical use. Unlike tobacco and alcohol, which are legal.

And so, over time, I came around. Legalize it. Prescribe it as a medical narcotic. Change the Schedule rating. Sell it through licensed outlets, same as alcohol and tobacco.

The flip side is the inevitable stoned drivers, black market dumps into legalized states, unlicensed sellers, etc. So while it solves some problems, it creates others. But if the pros outweigh the cons, then figure it out.

As I've said many times, somebody smarter than I am needs to figure it all out. When you're done, give me the rules we're all living by. Protect and Serve. For me, it is literally that simple.
 
#5,754
#5,754
hog88 said:
Fair enough and I agree, better to have some bad guys get off than screw over 1 innocent.

Only way I know how to fix it is to do away with it.
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These cases that have been posted here where 2 guys are driving across Nebraska or Iowa with 15k in cash and it gets confiscated in a traffic stop for speeding...those cops should be fired and so should their supervisor that is OK with it. 2 guys in a car with 10 or 15k scream that they were going to buy a car, truck, camper etc... or the old man that was in Florida I believe and had his life's savings, like 40 or 45k in cash, taken from him at A greyhound station if memory serves...because he couldn't immediately "prove " where the money came from...why should any citizen have to prove where their money came from? That's nobody elses business. The framers of our constitution would be ready to revolt over this policy, literally revolt. Much worse than taxation sans representation...strong arm robbery by the state on private citizens. I.didnt know that CAF was a thing until i saw it posted here, still have trouble believing it actually happens...shameful.

And FTR, I dont bash LEO , here or elsewhere. It's a dirty job, and most cops are good cops.

This robbery is bullcrap, though...and I would be very disappointed and completely stop respecting any officers involved with taking people's money and assets without a conviction.
 
#5,755
#5,755
GreyWolf1129 said:
Ras, Cdy, and others who may not like the laws in effect...and those who are charged with enforcing them...but are capable of having a mature discussion about it: I get where you're coming from. In some cases, I agree with you, and in others, I don't. We're seeing the same issues from different perspectives. Weed, for example. I was dead set against it for decades. Gateway drug. Reefer Madness. Stoners all over the place.

And yet...it has a valid medical use. Unlike tobacco and alcohol, which are legal.

And so, over time, I came around. Legalize it. Prescribe it as a medical narcotic. Change the Schedule rating. Sell it through licensed outlets, same as alcohol and tobacco.

The flip side is the inevitable stoned drivers, black market dumps into legalized states, unlicensed sellers, etc. So while it solves some problems, it creates others. But if the pros outweigh the cons, then figure it out.

As I've said many times, somebody smarter than I am needs to figure it all out. When you're done, give me the rules we're all living by. Protect and Serve. For me, it is literally that simple.
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For what’s it worth, I don’t dislike you. You seem like a good guy and I apologize if I’ve lead you to believe otherwise. I realize I come across to combative at times.
 
#5,756
#5,756
Cdywolfe said:
I can’t tell you how many patients I’ve taken care of who’ve overdosed on legit prescription opiates, yet I don’t see swat teams raiding the Walgreens at 3 am and buying new police cruisers with the money they find in the registers. So let’s please not pretend like this has anything to do with public safety.
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Pill Mills. Look it up, smart guy.
 
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#5,757
#5,757
orangeblood79 said:
Pill Mills. Look it up, smart guy.
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Fair enough but let’s not pretend like these pharmacies aren’t aware of these “pill mills” and certainly don’t hesitate to turn away the business they send their way.

As I’m sure you know, it’s not exactly hard to tell when you’re dealing with an addict.
 
#5,758
#5,758
And let me clarify... For you it probably is about public safety. But the heads of theses organizations it’s simply about generating revenue. The drug trade is big business and they want to get as big a piece of that in their deapertments pockets as they can.
 
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#5,760
#5,760
Cdywolfe said:
Fair enough but let’s not pretend like these pharmacies aren’t aware of these “pill mills” and certainly don’t hesitate to turn away the business they send their way.

As I’m sure you know, it’s not exactly hard to tell when you’re dealing with an addict.
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That's a totally different conversation and one that, I imagine, you and me would find each other on the same side.

But do me a favor, don't assume that I don't have rooted interest in and compassion for the damage that prescription medication and/or illicit/synthetic narcotics have had in the community. You don't know me, you only know my profession, for which you obviously have disdain, but I've comforted the family of people who've overdosed, some of whom I have previously arrested.

When it comes to death of a loved one due to drug use, I have the utmost respect and compassion for the community.
 
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#5,761
#5,761
Cdywolfe said:
And let me clarify... For you it probably is about public safety. But the heads of theses organizations it’s simply about generating revenue. The drug trade is big business and they want to get as big a piece of that in their deapertments pockets as they can.
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Agreed.
 
#5,762
#5,762
Cdywolfe said:
For what’s it worth, I don’t dislike you. You seem like a good guy and I apologize if I’ve lead you to believe otherwise. I realize I come across to combative at times.
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We're good. Ras and I have gone full-out cage match on some topics, but at the end of the day, we're adults, and we can both agree that sometimes the other side is bats**t crazy, right?

What gets my hackles up is when this thread turns in to an unwarranted, undeserved, and often venomous all-out assault on cops in general. Yes, sometimes we're our own worst enemy. Trust me, I have to wear the shame and tarnish that others put on my badge. I don't need anyone rubbing it in my face.

FYI, this thread has never really been about "To Protect and Serve". More like "Guess who fu**ed up today?"

But we're good. If you go back through my posts, or ask Ras, you'll see that when there's a general issue over what cops do; why they do it that way; and what the law says about it, I always try to give you the layman's view on how it works in real life. Others here...and there are a few of us...usually do the same. I didn't come here to make enemies, or argue. I have enough of that crap just outside my walls.

Relax, and let fly. If I can't defend it, I won't try. If I can, I will.

:salute:
 
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#5,763
#5,763
Cdywolfe said:
Fair enough but let’s not pretend like these pharmacies aren’t aware of these “pill mills” and certainly don’t hesitate to turn away the business they send their way.

As I’m sure you know, it’s not exactly hard to tell when you’re dealing with an addict.
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Pill Mills and legitimate pharmacies are two totally different things, although many a "legitimate pharmacy" has turned out to be a pill mill on the side.
 
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#5,764
#5,764
Cdywolfe said:
And let me clarify... For you it probably is about public safety. But the heads of theses organizations it’s simply about generating revenue. The drug trade is big business and they want to get as big a piece of that in their deapertments pockets as they can.
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You get it.
 
#5,765
#5,765
orangeblood79 said:
You've always operated under this narrative that drug dealing is not only legal but ok. I've worked 3 OD's this week alone, you're never going to convince me that anything other than weed should be legal (which I do...legalize it and tax the sh!t out of it). I'm not going down this rabbit hole either, we've had this conversation before and neither of us are going to budge.

And if the person whose money is seized wishes to provide proof that he obtained this money through legal means, it's rightfully theirs and therefore should be returned.
Click to expand...
That goes against everything that America is supposed to stand for. The burden of proof is supposed to be on you guys, not the suspect. You know, the whole innocent until proven guilty thing.
 
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#5,766
#5,766
Cdywolfe said:
For what’s it worth, I don’t dislike you. You seem like a good guy and I apologize if I’ve lead you to believe otherwise. I realize I come across to combative at times.
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GreyWolf isn't one of the usual suspects I was referring to earlier. He's actually reasonable and an adult about it.
 
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#5,767
#5,767
MyBloodRunnethOrange said:
That goes against everything that America is supposed to stand for. The burden of proof is supposed to be on you guys, not the suspect. You know, the whole innocent until proven guilty thing.
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You are ignoring the clear distinction...in the law...between articulable suspicion, probable cause, and reasonable doubt.

That's probably a contributing factor in your inability to understand why seizure and forfeiture are, again, two completely different things.
 
#5,768
#5,768
GreyWolf1129 said:
You are ignoring the clear distinction...in the law...between articulable suspicion, probable cause, and reasonable doubt.

That's probably a contributing factor in your inability to understand why seizure and forfeiture are, again, two completely different things.
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.
 
#5,769
#5,769
#5,770
#5,770
Damn, I figured the Volnation Police thread wouldn’t contain so much hatred. Every one knows how to fight until they get hit in the mouth, or something like that. I’m young and a lot of my friends didn’t trust police, but day by day we have more advanced discussion that helps both sides understand. Being young and still relatively new I can see both sides, although I would say the side critical of police is much less informed than they believe. It’s dirty, it’s difficult, it makes you numb to some things, but you all seem to focus on the very few to dictate your opinion of the majority. I dislike bad cops as much as any of you. Just remember that.
 
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