To Protect and to Serve II

[davethevol]

I think you're right.
NOBODY PLAYS WITH A DOG THAT DANFORD IS PLAYING WITH!!!
Seriously though, he was extremely drunk and may have had something else in his system.

The witness said Danford started playing with a dog. A 12-year-old girl came up to play with the dog, too, the document said, when Danford “quickly jumped up from his seat and tackled” her.

The witness said the two had no interaction before the incident and said she had no idea why Danford attacked the girl, the affidavit said.

I wonder if he’s got PTSD. That might explain his reaction.

 

[marcusluvsvols]

Am I a "usual suspect"? I'm part of that Thin Blue Line.

This is old ground between you and me. You don't like cops. I get it. I happen to be one.

I have a bullet hole, a broken shoulder, a broken hip, and more scars than I can count for my efforts.

You?

I'm old school. I believe we are peacekeepers first, and enforcers last. Yes, I'm probably in the minority amongst my peers, but there are more of us in that mindset than you know. Only the bad apples make the news.

You happen to hear about the SRO that likely saved lives in Maryland today? Maybe I missed your post on that.

Bad cops deserve the maximum penalty under the law. They broke the public trust, and there is no way back from that. Any cop who betrays their oath is not my brother, or my sister. They are an insult to the badge I wear.

I have no problem with you calling them out. You should.

When you get a minute, go visit the Officer Down Memorial Page. ODMP.org. Go read a few of those stories. Two of my brothers are there. Both good men. Lost their lives honoring the oath they took.

There are honorable men and women on that Thin Blue Line. Don't let the bad apples turn you against them.

I have been both grossly mistreated by young cops, and greatly helped and treated with respect by older officers. Seems like a pattern, which is u understandable. Everyone gets better over time, or should.

I will always give you guys respect first and have raised my kids to as well...for the simple reason that many of you guys deal with the sorriest people on the planet day in and day out...and now are even somewhat persecuted by the very government that employs you in some situations, which is bullcrap. Any real man who runs toward the gunfire when the crap hits the fan gets my respect. I have put myself in very real danger more than once for other people...wish there were more men like us out here.

Th anks for your service

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Am I a "usual suspect"?

No, you are not.

You don't like cops. I get it.

I hate bad cops and cops that do not uphold their oath to the Constitution.

I believe we are peacekeepers first, and enforcers last. Yes, I'm probably in the minority amongst my peers, but there are more of us in that mindset than you know. Only the bad apples make the news.

You said a mouth full.

You happen to hear about the SRO that likely saved lives in Maryland today? Maybe I missed your post on that.

A LEO did his/her job. Are we asked to thank other professionals for the jobs that they do? Why is it just LEO, military or govt bureaucrats?

Bad cops deserve the maximum penalty under the law.

Yet they rarely get the maximum penalty. That is the issue.

I have no problem with you calling them out. You should.

I wish more LEOs did the calling out, not defending the corruption.

When you get a minute, go visit the Officer Down Memorial Page. ODMP.org. Go read a few of those stories. Two of my brothers are there. Both good men. Lost their lives honoring the oath they took.

Again, the oath taken specifically calls on officers to uphold the Constitution. How many unConstitutional laws do LEOs enforce?

There are honorable men and women on that Thin Blue Line.

I never said they didn't exist.

 

[GreyWolf1129]

- No, you are not.
- I hate bad cops and cops that do not uphold their oath to the Constitution.
- You said a mouth full.
- A LEO did his/her job. Are we asked to thank other professionals for the jobs that they do? Why is it just LEO, military or govt bureaucrats?
- Yet they rarely get the maximum penalty. That is the issue.
- I wish more LEOs did the calling out, not defending the corruption.
- Again, the oath taken specifically calls on officers to uphold the Constitution. How many unConstitutional laws do LEOs enforce?
- I never said they didn't exist.

Let me begin by apologizing if I came off as a bit harsh. You and I have been sparring over our respective positions regarding LEO's for a while now. I get what you're saying, I just think you tend to lump us all into one pile. So forgive me if I get a bit defensive about the TBL.

I respect your opinions, or I would never bother to respond to them.

So, I agree with all of your points. I don't ask for handshakes or free coffee or accolades. I chose the profession. I knew what it entailed.

As for the "Unconstitutional Laws" part...well, that's a whole 'nother subject. By law, every law is "constitutional", in that it falls under the respective U.S. or State Constitution. What I will agree with is that there are way too many laws on the books, and some of those laws were written and enacted by people who failed to consider the long-term, downstream effect of those laws. So you got me there, brother...'cause I don't have the authority to pick and choose which laws I will...or won't...enforce.

But what I can do is enforce them wisely, using the maximum discretion allowed to me under that same law, or the laws that govern me as an LEO. In my opinion, this is the essential difference between the "Enforcer mindset", and the "Guardian mindset". Yes, there was a time when I belonged to the former, but the last few years I have been a member of the latter. "Serve and Protect". You've heard me say this before: LAPD had it right when they put that on their doors back in the 60's. If only they had done it.

So we're good. I apologize for the harsh tone. You're a solid poster. And I agree with you on every point you made.

Keep me honest. I have this bad habit of saying exactly what I think sometimes.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

As for the "Unconstitutional Laws" part...well, that's a whole 'nother subject. By law, every law is "constitutional", in that it falls under the respective U.S. or State Constitution. What I will agree with is that there are way too many laws on the books, and some of those laws were written and enacted by people who failed to consider the long-term, downstream effect of those laws. So you got me there, brother...'cause I don't have the authority to pick and choose which laws I will...or won't...enforce.

On the outside looking in, it would seem that this would be the perfect opportunity for the police union to step in and help their members. Police are being asked to enforce ridiculous laws and help the state generate revenue with traffic stops and bogus citations... shaking down citizens and harassing them over the most trivial of infractions. And then we the wonder why police have a bad perception with most people.

And that doesn't have anything to do with police training with regards to making an arrest, subduing an assailant or preventing a situation from escalating out of control.

 

[GreyWolf1129]

On the outside looking in, it would seem that this would be the perfect opportunity for the police union to step in and help their members. Police are being asked to enforce ridiculous laws and help the state generate revenue with traffic stops and bogus citations... shaking down citizens and harassing them over the most trivial of infractions. And then we the wonder why police have a bad perception with most people.

And that doesn't have anything to do with police training with regards to making an arrest, subduing an assailant or preventing a situation from escalating out of control.

I'm either anti-union or pro-union, depending on the union and the occupation. In a perfect world, we have no need for unions. But alas...

Police unions don't care about anything other than their members. There are good ones, and there are bad ones. I'll leave that there. There are no police unions here, but I do belong to the PBA. Why? If I'm in a shooting, the County Attorney will protect the county. I need someone on my side, so...PBA.

Ridiculous laws, traffic stops, revenue, bogus citations. Now you're in my wheelhouse. So I'll pick..say...misdemeanor marijuana possession. If I trip over it and you know how to behave, odds are I dump it and send you on your way. That's just me. It's a $770 ticket here, so revenue is not foremost on my mind. Ticket or not, I get paid the same.

Traffic laws. My specialty. I run a lot of traffic. On I-95, I generally ignore anything less than 15 over. But at 15+, I make the stop, and you can talk your way into a ticket, or talk your way out. Anything over 90, it had better be a good story. About half of the accidents I work involve someone going too fast for the prevailing conditions, and my wife drives those same roads, so I give you a cushion, and then I give you a ticket. Not about revenue, about you showing some respect for every other motorist out there.

I make a lot of stops. You give me PC, I make the stop. I have made a lot of arrests for outstanding warrants (including Murder) off of a simple traffic stop. But I almost never get out of the car with my ticket book in hand. Sometimes...you got me here...I'm just shaking the tree to see what falls out. But again, for me it's never about revenue.

I'll put it to you like this: Let's say you're on your way to DisneyWorld with your family. You've been on the road for 8-10 hours. The kids are restless; your wife needs to pee; and you are just about out of good will towards your fellow man. You go by me in my hiding spot at 88. I make the stop. Now, on top of everything else, you're pissed off. I generally pick up on that right away. I ask you a few questions, you answer honestly, and then I walk back to my vehicle. While you get the "I told you to slow down" speech from your spouse.

I see it all the time. I feel your pain.

If it's me, you get a warning, provided that you don't ask me if there's a Dunkin Donuts nearby.

But if you're drunk, or wanted, you go to jail. Where you belong. Weed? If it's traveling herb, I give you the choice. Dump it and move on, or seize it and write the ticket. I'm still waiting for the first person to take "Option B". Over an ounce? You just tied my hands. Sorry.

I can afford to be honest here. If my Sheriff fires me, I still have my full-time job. Personally, I don't think he does, or would, have an issue with anything I've said here.

I make an effort to not get anything on my badge that Brasso won't get off. That has served me well over the years. I'm also mindful of the old saying that "There's no situation that a good cop can't make worse."

Oh...and Go Vols.

 

[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]

Chicago officer Carlyle Calhoun sexually assaulted suspect in hospital, police say | The Kansas City Star

 

[ob79]

Traffic laws. My specialty. I run a lot of traffic. On I-95, I generally ignore anything less than 15 over. But at 15+, I make the stop, and you can talk your way into a ticket, or talk your way out. Anything over 90, it had better be a good story. About half of the accidents I work involve someone going too fast for the prevailing conditions, and my wife drives those same roads, so I give you a cushion, and then I give you a ticket. Not about revenue, about you showing some respect for every other motorist out there.

I make a lot of stops. You give me PC, I make the stop. I have made a lot of arrests for outstanding warrants (including Murder) off of a simple traffic stop. But I almost never get out of the car with my ticket book in hand. Sometimes...you got me here...I'm just shaking the tree to see what falls out. But again, for me it's never about revenue.

I'll put it to you like this: Let's say you're on your way to DisneyWorld with your family. You've been on the road for 8-10 hours. The kids are restless; your wife needs to pee; and you are just about out of good will towards your fellow man. You go by me in my hiding spot at 88. I make the stop. Now, on top of everything else, you're pissed off. I generally pick up on that right away. I ask you a few questions, you answer honestly, and then I walk back to my vehicle. While you get the "I told you to slow down" speech from your spouse.

I see it all the time. I feel your pain.

If it's me, you get a warning, provided that you don't ask me if there's a Dunkin Donuts nearby.

But if you're drunk, or wanted, you go to jail. Where you belong. Weed? If it's traveling herb, I give you the choice. Dump it and move on, or seize it and write the ticket. I'm still waiting for the first person to take "Option B". Over an ounce? You just tied my hands. Sorry.
Oh...and Go Vols.

85-90% of the cops that I know and work with feel the same way, the remaining 10-15% being traffic cops. However, most of our limits are 15-20mph over, depending on road conditions, traffic, time of day, etc.

Ras, you'll go crazy over this but, I will make traffic stops for expired tags, tag light, brake lights, head lights etc. but seldom write for them.

I'm looking for dope, guns, warrants, intoxicated drivers and the like. We have had a ton of OD's in my city with a lot of bad stuff floating around laced with carfentanyl, fentanyl, etc. that I very much want off the streets. I personally don't care about misdemeanor amount of weed but, if it's felony amount...you're likely coming with me, sorry.

 

[MercyPercy]

I vehemently disagree with the idea of making petty traffic stops to "fish" for drugs or anything else.

 

[GreyWolf1129]

I vehemently disagree with the idea of making petty traffic stops to "fish" for drugs or anything else.

Well, we tried the "If you're a wanted person or a drug dealer please turn yourself in" campaign, but that just didn't seem to produce the numbers that good, old-fashioned street work did, so.....

 

[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]

I vehemently disagree with the idea of making petty traffic stops to "fish" for drugs or anything else.

But, but, they let the guy go if he acts correctly and decides to let the cop throw away his property....

 

[Vol8188]

Well, we tried the "If you're a wanted person or a drug dealer please turn yourself in" campaign, but that just didn't seem to produce the numbers that good, old-fashioned street work did, so.....

How about the: drug dealers are treated as all other community businessmen campaign?

 

[MyBloodRunnethOrange]

I'm either anti-union or pro-union, depending on the union and the occupation. In a perfect world, we have no need for unions. But alas...

Police unions don't care about anything other than their members. There are good ones, and there are bad ones. I'll leave that there. There are no police unions here, but I do belong to the PBA. Why? If I'm in a shooting, the County Attorney will protect the county. I need someone on my side, so...PBA.

Ridiculous laws, traffic stops, revenue, bogus citations. Now you're in my wheelhouse. So I'll pick..say...misdemeanor marijuana possession. If I trip over it and you know how to behave, odds are I dump it and send you on your way. That's just me. It's a $770 ticket here, so revenue is not foremost on my mind. Ticket or not, I get paid the same.

Traffic laws. My specialty. I run a lot of traffic. On I-95, I generally ignore anything less than 15 over. But at 15+, I make the stop, and you can talk your way into a ticket, or talk your way out. Anything over 90, it had better be a good story. About half of the accidents I work involve someone going too fast for the prevailing conditions, and my wife drives those same roads, so I give you a cushion, and then I give you a ticket. Not about revenue, about you showing some respect for every other motorist out there.

I make a lot of stops. You give me PC, I make the stop. I have made a lot of arrests for outstanding warrants (including Murder) off of a simple traffic stop. But I almost never get out of the car with my ticket book in hand. Sometimes...you got me here...I'm just shaking the tree to see what falls out. But again, for me it's never about revenue.

I'll put it to you like this: Let's say you're on your way to DisneyWorld with your family. You've been on the road for 8-10 hours. The kids are restless; your wife needs to pee; and you are just about out of good will towards your fellow man. You go by me in my hiding spot at 88. I make the stop. Now, on top of everything else, you're pissed off. I generally pick up on that right away. I ask you a few questions, you answer honestly, and then I walk back to my vehicle. While you get the "I told you to slow down" speech from your spouse.

I see it all the time. I feel your pain.

If it's me, you get a warning, provided that you don't ask me if there's a Dunkin Donuts nearby.

But if you're drunk, or wanted, you go to jail. Where you belong. Weed? If it's traveling herb, I give you the choice. Dump it and move on, or seize it and write the ticket. I'm still waiting for the first person to take "Option B". Over an ounce? You just tied my hands. Sorry.

I can afford to be honest here. If my Sheriff fires me, I still have my full-time job. Personally, I don't think he does, or would, have an issue with anything I've said here.

I make an effort to not get anything on my badge that Brasso won't get off. That has served me well over the years. I'm also mindful of the old saying that "There's no situation that a good cop can't make worse."

Oh...and Go Vols.

Why is that? No sense of humor?

 

[MyBloodRunnethOrange]

I vehemently disagree with the idea of making petty traffic stops to "fish" for drugs or anything else.

I don't have an issue with it.

 

[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]

Road pirates.

 

[GreyWolf1129]

But, but, they let the guy go if he acts correctly and decides to let the cop throw away his property....

You skipped right over the part where anyone with a double-digit IQ would know to not (a) smoke weed in your car while you're traveling in such a manner or at a speed that is guaranteed to get you pulled over, or (b) leave your bowl or bag right there where I can't help but see it when I walk up.


Until it's legalized here, it's illegal to possess. So I let you throw it out, or I bag it as evidence. Like I said, still waiting on the first one to choose the second option.


Now you've got me worried that someone eventually will.

 

[GreyWolf1129]

How about the: drug dealers are treated as all other community businessmen campaign?

Good idea. I'll pass that one up the chain.

 

[GreyWolf1129]

Why is that? No sense of humor?

Really? You're asking ME that?

 

[GreyWolf1129]

Road pirates.

Actually, it's "Highway Swashbucklers".

 

[Vol8188]

Good idea. I'll pass that one up the chain.

It’s a great idea. You may have heard of it before. It’s a system of free trade known as “capitalism”.

 

[GreyWolf1129]

It’s a great idea. You may have heard of it before. It’s a system of free trade known as “capitalism”.

Luther mentioned something about it over in some other thread. Or maybe it was LG. I'll go back and look.


Thanks for the pointer.

 

[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]

You skipped right over the part where anyone with a double-digit IQ would know to not (a) smoke weed in your car while you're traveling in such a manner or at a speed that is guaranteed to get you pulled over, or (b) leave your bowl or bag right there where I can't help but see it when I walk up.


Until it's legalized here, it's illegal to possess. So I let you throw it out, or I bag it as evidence. Like I said, still waiting on the first one to choose the second option.


Now you've got me worried that someone eventually will.

And this makes you a good cop? How?

 

[GreyWolf1129]

And this makes you a good cop? How?

I don't think I ever said I was "good", although I seem to have this uncanny knack (pronounced "curse") for tripping over people who are wanted for prior offenses. Yep, you guessed it...on traffic stops.


I do think I'm fair. But I don't base my actions on what I think is "good", I base them on the laws in force, the information or evidence at hand, the oath I took, and my best judgment as to what the right course of action is. I don't get it right all the time, but I have a pretty solid batting average.


If I was to be "good" at something, I'd rather it be golf or a split-finger fastball in the mid-90's. Those pay a lot more.

 

[MercyPercy]

Well, we tried the "If you're a wanted person or a drug dealer please turn yourself in" campaign, but that just didn't seem to produce the numbers that good, old-fashioned street work did, so.....

So shake down regular folks hoping by chance you'll find a real bad guy. I'm not impressed.

 

[InVOLuntary]

I don't think I ever said I was "good", although I seem to have this uncanny knack (pronounced "curse") for tripping over people who are wanted for prior offenses. Yep, you guessed it...on traffic stops.


I do think I'm fair. But I don't base my actions on what I think is "good", I base them on the laws in force, the information or evidence at hand, the oath I took, and my best judgment as to what the right course of action is. I don't get it right all the time, but I have a pretty solid batting average.


If I was to be "good" at something, I'd rather it be golf or a split-finger fastball in the mid-90's. Those pay a lot more.

Some people blame the cop when their real beef is with the laws.