To Protect and to Serve II

[Rasputin_Vol]

Carl, is it possible for someone too talk and not breath at the same time?

You could if your breathing is restricted...

Are we really going to split hairs on how much air he needed to breathe and to talk rather than looking at the end result? It is quite obvious the police on his throat was a contributing factor.

 

[ob79]

It also leads to a question. What if no video existed of Walter Scott being murdered? The cop was fully ready to say he acted in self defense. Now, the question is, how many incidents like Walter Scott happen every day, only no video is available? You can't track the number, but it is an interesting thought project.

What if....you're disdain for the profession blinded you from the truth that cops can ALSO do good?

Mind blowing...

 

[Grand Vol]

It also leads to a question. What if no video existed of Walter Scott being murdered? The cop was fully ready to say he acted in self defense. Now, the question is, how many incidents like Walter Scott happen every day, only no video is available? You can't track the number, but it is an interesting thought project.

I don't think you're going to find most cops disagreeing on the use of body cams to prevent things like this. It's certainly a protection tool for them as well as the public.

 

[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]

And once again, the profession can be changed from within. As well as the trifecta of the ire you bring of courts, laws and police.

As I've stated before, once you demonize the profession, do you honestly think you're going to get good, qualified people to do said job? Many on here have argued the requirements for being a cop should be higher. I don't necessarily disagree, but I also know that once that profession is branded as the one for losers, high school dropouts, power hungry sociopaths, etc, you have a hard time attracting those that can help reform it from within. It's a double edged sword in this case like many professions that has it's beginnings in honorable and good intentions (and make no mistake, law enforcement is a profession that has good intentions at the core, even you would agree) that ends up pushed away from where it started.

But where to start? You won't admit the power between the three is elemental in making necessary change. Take the gun control laws in Colorado for example. How many Sheriffs and police banded together to fight against that nonsense? And even went as far as saying they wouldn't enforce said laws? Did they get props from you for doing so? But is the lack of enforcement on their part not in line with your personal beliefs?

If we're operating under the current immoral judicial system of the United States government, the only solution is to substantially repeal of most of the laws on the books. Most are only there to generate revenue for the state in the first place. Crimes are only committed against persons or property, anything more and it's extortion.

So you want me to give cops props for actually upholding the constitution? Sorry, that's supposed to be their damn work instruction.

In truth, you cannot fix the system from the inside. For the politicians and enforcers there isn't an incentive to do so.

 

[ob79]

Bump.

Was that addressed to me?

I'll answer if not...

I don't particularly like writing traffic citations but I understand the need for them.

Also, I think it's still illegal in Tennessee to marry a duck--might be one of our boarder states--but I don't recall having to enforce that one though...

And, of course, there will be laws on the books that aren't universally agreed upon. Bring up any law in a room full of 1,000 legal experts and you'll get 500 different opinions.

 

[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]

What if....you're disdain for the profession blinded you from the truth that cops can ALSO do good?

Mind blowing...

What if you actually answered my question.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

What actions would constitute a "pre-crime?" In other words, in your own words what is currently on the books that you feel is a "pre-crime?"

Tinted windows (a cop might get shot if he can't see inside the car), seat belt laws (you might get you or a passenger hurt), DUI checkpoints, finding a large amount of cash on someone (they could be a drug dealer), rolling stop at 2:00 am (the driver could have killed someone on this dark, lonely highway at 2:00 am).

Other things are just violations of the 9th Amendment and 2nd Amendment like having drugs or weapons on you and other such infractions.

 

[ob79]

What if you actually answered my question.

F5, dude.

 

[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]

Was that addressed to me?

I'll answer if not...

I don't particularly like writing traffic citations but I understand the need for them.

Also, I think it's still illegal in Tennessee to marry a duck--might be one of our boarder states--but I don't recall having to enforce that one though...

And, of course, there will be laws on the books that aren't universally agreed upon. Bring up any law in a room full of 1,000 legal experts and you'll get 500 different opinions.

Nice dodge.

 

[Grand Vol]

If we're operating under the current immoral judicial system of the United States government, the only solution is to substantially repeal of most of the laws on the books. Most are only there to generate revenue for the state in the first place. Crimes are only committed against persons or property, anything more and it's extortion.

So you want me to give cops props for actually upholding the constitution? Sorry, that's supposed to be their damn work instruction.

In truth, you cannot fix the system from the inside. For the politicians and enforcers there isn't an incentive to do so.

And here's the problem. You cannot even give credit where credit is due. They sure as hell could have gone along with that BS in Colorado, but they didn't. And aren't as far as I know.

And yes, that's a prime example of fixing the problem from the inside.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

One time, said in specific context to a specif post about a specific topic, yet your attention was entirely on "duty bound" and you use it as a blanket and keep repeating it over and over again like it's the punchline to a joke.

You are the joke here. You have zero concept of context, you have zero idea of what to post in regards to an argument except "loose cigarettes, busted taillights, blah, blah, blah" and zero follow up on the things you're outraged about.

I don't think you answered my question: Are cops duty bound or are they not?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

What if....you're disdain for the profession blinded you from the truth that cops can ALSO do good?

Mind blowing...

I don't think anyone has suggested that ALL cops are evil and that cops are not capable of doing good.

I think what most people are saying is that FAR TOO MANY are bad and FAR TOO MANY engage in evil. The only what that can change is from the inside, though. You all have to be the force of change. The first step would be to only enforce laws that are protected by The Constitution... that is what your oath says. Next, if any law (drugs, firearms, freedom to travel and assemble) violates the Constitution, you do NOT enforce that law.

It is really quite simple.

 

[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]

And here's the problem. You cannot even give credit where credit is due. They sure as hell could have gone along with that BS in Colorado, but they didn't. And aren't as far as I know.

And yes, that's a prime example of fixing the problem from the inside.

So i should be elated they didn't go along with the politicians for once? Sorry, no dice. It's their damn job.

 

[Grand Vol]

I don't think you answered my question: Are cops duty bound or are they not?

I have answered it before and I'll say the same thing I've said before when you continually ignore what I have to say before making an ignorant "duty bound" retort...

LEOs of all levels have the ability to use discretion and often do in their day to day responsibilities. You just won't admit it because it's contrary to your hatred and tunnel vision when it comes to anything law enforcement related.

Now if you aren't smart enough to see this is the answer to the question of whether or not cops are "duty bound" or not, I can't help you. Because there is no jurisdiction out there that makes officers enforce every law 100% of the time.

 

[Grand Vol]

So i should be elated they didn't go along with the politicians for once? Sorry, no dice. It's their damn job.

You should be happy there were those willing to stand up for what they believed to be right and against the will of the people.

Step back, be objective and see how such actions were very helpful in the big picture. It happens far more than you'd like to admit.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Was that addressed to me?

I'll answer if not...

I don't particularly like writing traffic citations but I understand the need for them.

Fill me in... what is the need for most of them?

Also, I think it's still illegal in Tennessee to marry a duck--might be one of our boarder states--but I don't recall having to enforce that one though...

And, of course, there will be laws on the books that aren't universally agreed upon. Bring up any law in a room full of 1,000 legal experts and you'll get 500 different opinions.

Forget about marrying ducks, how do you feel about a felon driving with jet black tinted windows, a firearm, and a bag of reefer?

 

[ob79]

Tinted windows (a cop might get shot if he can't see inside the car), seat belt laws (you might get you or a passenger hurt), DUI checkpoints, finding a large amount of cash on someone (they could be a drug dealer), rolling stop at 2:00 am (the driver could have killed someone on this dark, lonely highway at 2:00 am).

Other things are just violations of the 9th Amendment and 2nd Amendment like having drugs or weapons on you and other such infractions.

There's a line of demarcation for tinted windows. You have to be able to see inside. The Supreme Court has ruled time and time again that there is no reasonable expectation of privacy in a motor vehicle, going all the way back to 1925, therefore...the law.

As long as the probable cause standard has been met in each of the incidents you mentioned, I see no problem.

 

[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]

You should be happy there were those willing to stand up for what they believed to be right and against the will of the people.

Step back, be objective and see how such actions were very helpful in the big picture. It happens far more than you'd like to admit.

Pretty sad state of affairs, don't you think?

 

[RobsPics]

Blaming the victim again. He died because he ate twinkies. Just like many women get raped because they did not stay home. :thud::thud::thud:

 

[FLVOL_79]

If he was resisting arrest, what was the original charge that they were arresting him for?

illegal sale of cigarettes

Seen similar down here in Orlando. Except instead of cigarettes its Puerto Rican mavi which is boiled tree bark that is put into a glass and sealed with underwear (seriously) to ferment for a while..

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

There's a line of demarcation for tinted windows. You have to be able to see inside. The Supreme Court has ruled time and time again that there is no reasonable expectation of privacy in a motor vehicle, going all the way back to 1925, therefore...the law.

As long as the probable cause standard has been met in each of the incidents you mentioned, I see no problem.

And you are OK with that?

 

[Grand Vol]

Pretty sad state of affairs, don't you think?

This specific instance of political corruption and a knee jerk reaction to world events? Especially in light of the ignorance showed by the idiots in charge in Colorado?

Yeah, pretty sad state of affairs. However, the fact the people responded by recalling those State Senators, the corruption of Hickenlooper with Bloomberg tossing in massive amounts of money to his campaign being put out there as well as the local LEOs stating their opposition does give a little bit of sunshine to the situation.

 

[ob79]

Nice dodge.

I answered it.

Fill me in... what is the need for most of them?

Public safety, plain and simple...but the great thing about officer discretion is I can choose not to write a ticket to every single person/vehicle I see that's driving 2 mph over the speed limit, driving a car with tint that's too dark, etc. etc.

Forget about marry ducks, how do you feel about a felon driving with jet black tinted windows, a firearm, and a bag of reefer?

A FELON? Really, this is the example you want to go with?

 

[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]

I answered it.



Public safety, plain and simple...but the great thing about officer discretion is I can choose not to write a ticket to every single person/vehicle I see that's driving 2 mph over the speed limit, driving a car with tint that's too dark, etc. etc.


A FELON? Really, this is the example you want to go with?

Not really. Let me put it another way, have you ever personally enforced a law that you thought was unjust?

 

[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]

There's a question, how come someone is charged with a non violent crime and suddenly they lose their right to protect their lives with firearms?