To Protect and to Serve II

#5,826
#5,826
n_huffhines said:
Is a police state a relative thing or an absolute thing?
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that's what I am trying to figure out. Seems like people are acting as if its an absolute, but I don't see too many condemnations of similar actions (police statery) in the "good" nations out there. so its either ignorance or relativism, and I lead towards the second.
 
#5,827
#5,827
LouderVol said:
that's what I am trying to figure out. Seems like people are acting as if its an absolute, but I don't see too many condemnations of similar actions (police statery) in the "good" nations out there. so its either ignorance or relativism, and I lead towards the second.
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What "good" nations are you talking about? Policing issues in other countries aren't really on anybody's radar. And the stuff I do know, like the fact that Britain has CCTV is worthy of debate, but I just don't care as much since it's not what's happening here.

And yes, I think it's an absolute thing, for the most part. Obviously, if you're talking about the use of force, there are levels, but when you talk about victimless crimes, they either are or they aren't.
 
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#5,828
#5,828
LouderVol said:
that's what I am trying to figure out. Seems like people are acting as if its an absolute, but I don't see too many condemnations of similar actions (police statery) in the "good" nations out there. so its either ignorance or relativism, and I lead towards the second.
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It is relevant, IMO most if not all European countries are police states in comparison to us, Russia, China, Venezuela and Cuba are absolutely police states.

When the police can burst into your home unannounced, confiscate your cash on suspicion and prosecutors can freeze your assets while you await trial you are on track to be a police state.
 
#5,830
#5,830
n_huffhines said:
What "good" nations are you talking about? Policing issues in other countries aren't really on anybody's radar. And the stuff I do know, like the fact that Britain has CCTV is worthy of debate, but I just don't care as much since it's not what's happening here.

And yes, I think it's an absolute thing, for the most part. Obviously, if you're talking about the use of force, there are levels, but when you talk about victimless crimes, they either are or they aren't.
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If I had examples of the good I would give them to you. I am pulling from this thread. I keep seeing what is bad and unacceptable and was assuming there was a good out there for there to be some standard to hold us up against. If there isn't a basis of good and its just an absolute what is that? Is it just the victimless crime aspect? the abuse? the corruption? the violence? again even within an absolute there are lines.

maybe I should have phrased it as what is acceptable?

100% police statery isn't acceptable, and 0% doesn't seem to exist.

I think everyone would agree that 1 case of a cop beating up someone innocent is 1 too many, but is it enough to tear down/ignore the system?
 
#5,833
#5,833
volbeast33 said:
I’m not arguing right or wrong but I will never understand why people want to fight back over minor issues like this.....you never win.... if you think you are wronged.... fight it legally after the fact.
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People are really ballsy and think they are still online. The way things are, just makes sense to just keep your mouth shut and hands to yourself and bring it to court. Doesn't really matter who's wrong or right when you are laying on the ground dead.
 
#5,834
#5,834
volbeast33 said:
I’m not arguing right or wrong but I will never understand why people want to fight back over minor issues like this.....you never win.... if you think you are wronged.... fight it legally after the fact.
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this case I agree with your stance. but if the cop lays hands on me, he gets asked once if I am under arrest or being detained, or else.
 
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#5,837
#5,837
volbeast33 said:
I’m not arguing right or wrong but I will never understand why people want to fight back over minor issues like this.....you never win.... if you think you are wronged.... fight it legally after the fact.
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The common defense in here for cops is that it's a high pressure, tense situation and it's hard to make the perfect decision in the heat of the moment.

Can we offer that to civilians too?
 
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#5,838
#5,838
MercyPercy said:
The common defense in here for cops is that it's a high pressure, tense situation and it's hard to make the perfect decision in the heat of the moment.

Can we offer that to civilians too?
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Sure if you want too.... I know when I was younger I ran from the police.... when they finally caught me.....drug me out of the car..... guns drawn....I kept my hands against the car and didn’t budge....it was all yes sir and no sir till it was over. I couldn’t imagine attempting to go about it the way most of these other citizens do.
 
#5,840
#5,840
MercyPercy said:
The common defense in here for cops is that it's a high pressure, tense situation and it's hard to make the perfect decision in the heat of the moment.

Can we offer that to civilians too?
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Had discussion at work about this. If we had buildings falling down every other day and the ASCE said, "Yeah, we have a few bad apples as civil engineers", would that be acceptable?
 
#5,841
#5,841
BearCat204 said:
People are really ballsy and think they are still online. The way things are, just makes sense to just keep your mouth shut and hands to yourself and bring it to court. Doesn't really matter who's wrong or right when you are laying on the ground dead.
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Well in this case, she'll probably be rich, not dead. Tax payer is the only one that loses.
 
#5,842
#5,842
Rasputin_Vol said:
Had discussion at work about this. If we had buildings falling down every other day and the ASCE said, "Yeah, we have a few bad apples as civil engineers", would that be acceptable?
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What is the answer? Nobody trusts the police to police themselves.....if a jury finds them not guilty then that jury is blinded by the badge....I’m sure if we bring in federal to police them then people will claim they are protecting the state.....what do you feel should be done?
 
#5,844
#5,844
LouderVol said:
nope. not worried about losing a fist fight. doesn't mean I am going to let someone do something to me I don't want them to.
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I understand what you’re saying but these ain’t Mensa candidates you’d be encountering. They don’t care who’s right or wrong in the heat of the moment, they will beat the **** out of you to achieve “compliance”. That’s how they’re trained and that’s what they’ll do.
 
#5,845
#5,845
LouderVol said:
nope. not worried about losing a fist fight. doesn't mean I am going to let someone do something to me I don't want them to.
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As soon as you strike an officer you lose. It isn't right but it's just the way it is and I don't see that changing.
 
#5,846
#5,846
DancingOutlaw said:
I understand what you’re saying but these ain’t Mensa candidates you’d be encountering. They don’t care who’s right or wrong in the heat of the moment, they will beat the **** out of you to achieve “compliance”. That’s how they’re trained and that’s what they’ll do.
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like I said if they are arresting me or whatever I am going along with it. not looking to start fights.
 
#5,847
#5,847
LouderVol said:
nope. not worried about losing a fist fight. doesn't mean I am going to let someone do something to me I don't want them to.
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Not exactly like you have a choice. They can literally pummel you into submission and all they have to do is say you were "resisting arrest", whatever that means. If need be they'll have 2 or 3 of their buddies hold you down while they administrator the beating. Otoh, if you so much as lay a pinky finger on him you're charged with assaulting a police officer.
 
#5,850
#5,850
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
kgw.com | Video shows police hitting homeless man as he says 'I am not resisting'
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This man is so obviously mentally ill and in the midst of a crisis. Instead of showing compassion and kindness, this piece of human s**t chose to continually slug the man in the head and face. There’s a special place in hell people for like that.

And again... That’s so odd that with 99% of cops being good that you had such a large collection of bad ones in one place. What are the odds?
 
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