Thoughts on CKC

[volfan102455]

NCAA generates over a BILLION dollars in revenue just from media rights. Universities in the Big 10, ACC, SEC etc. ain't offering sports out of the kindness of their hearts. McDonald's does not have to sell hamburgers either but that is missing the point of profit making.

The debate is over revenue sharing and heck yes, athletes and their reps have a place at the table.

The ADs for the majority of universities do not make money and are in the red. So you take money out of that and share it with others - then even more universities are in the red. There is not enough money to go around.

Hypothetical example of how fast the money dries up given that many think because there are billions they should get a millions -

There were 554,298 college student athletes in 2024-2025. If each of them is given 100,000 then there needs to be at least 55.4 billion dollars in profit.

I believe there are approximately 600 or so at UT so that is 60M. 2023 UTK AD generated 202M in total revenue - after expenses there was 11M left. Where is the other 49M coming from?

I get it - some folks see the billions ACROSS THE INDUSTRY and say I got to have some of that not realizing that they are 1 of over a half million student athletes. And if you add up the personal associated with the ADs, media companies, etc. it is probably easily over 2 million folks taking part of the pie.

 

[Amb3096]

You know we haven't talked much about players who don't give effort after getting NIL to play. Can we get a refund? LOL

I don't think NIL compensation comes from the school's coffers, does it? I thought it was sponsors who pay the students for agreed upon promotional deals. I'm sure there are checks being passed around under the table too, but performance guarantees on those would be the equivalent of asking for a refund on a TV that you stole.

 

[volfan102455]

I don't think NIL compensation comes from the school's coffers, does it? I thought it was sponsors who pay the students for agreed upon promotional deals. I'm sure there are checks being passed around under the table too, but performance guarantees on those would be the equivalent of asking for a refund on a TV that you stole.

Yes, NIL is not supposed to be from the schools, but from the "individual" promoting themselves. They are also not employees, and the concept of revenue sharing is normally associated with employees of a corporation / entity.

And if were to become employees, lots of different rules would apply.

 

[volfan102455]

And I personally don't have a problem with the original intent of NIL but that expects the "individual" to prompt their brand.

 

[chuckiepoo]

And if were to become employees, lots of different rules would apply.

Expensive rules to manage. A nice chunk of the pie would vaporize into overhead.

 

[madtownvol]

The ADs for the majority of universities do not make money and are in the red. So you take money out of that and share it with others - then even more universities are in the red. There is not enough money to go around.

Hypothetical example of how fast the money dries up given that many think because there are billions they should get a millions -

There were 554,298 college student athletes in 2024-2025. If each of them is given 100,000 then there needs to be at least 55.4 billion dollars in profit.

I believe there are approximately 600 or so at UT so that is 60M. 2023 UTK AD generated 202M in total revenue - after expenses there was 11M left. Where is the other 49M coming from?

I get it - some folks see the billions ACROSS THE INDUSTRY and say I got to have some of that not realizing that they are 1 of over a half million student athletes. And if you add up the personal associated with the ADs, media companies, etc. it is probably easily over 2 million folks taking part of the pie.

First, my prior post was factually inaccurate since most D1 ADs are technically classified as non-profits (which means they have tax exempt status--think about that for a minute).

Revenue is supposed to be recycled back into their programs.

To your contention about needing $55 billion dollars to make the system, there is a cap set on much $ schools can distribute to athletes, which I believe is 20 million per yer (though it rises by some % each year). So, your $55 billion a year estimate is a very creative fiction)

A lot of people confuse athlete's personal NIL deals with the revenue sharing plan. But if a college athlete cuts a deal with Nike, that $ is not coming from the school. Separate sources. Schools are finding all kinds of ways to offset those revenue sharing costs as well (See link below). Also, the cost of college coaches such as 14 million to Kirby Smart and 12 million to Lane Kiffin (not to mention massive buyout clauses) also comes out of school budget so the arms race in coaching salaries is another factor in the budget stress situation.

College athletic departments need to find every dollar. The search is on for new ways to do it

Exploring new ways to make money in more ways than raising ticket prices is an urgent task for programs looking to keep up with one another.

www.nytimes.com

 

[volfan102455]

To your contention about needing $55 billion dollars to make the system, there is a cap set on much $ schools can distribute to athletes, which I believe is 20 million per yer (though it rises by some % each year). So, your $55 billion a year estimate is a very creative fiction)

20 million for 554,298 student athletes = $36.08 per athlete per year. But I get it, football players will say, that is only for me and when that happens athletes from other sports will challenge and ask for their share.

The creative fiction as you call it - is based on the athletes wanting more than just pocket change.

 

[1reVOLver]

20 million for 554,298 student athletes = $36.08 per athlete per year.

That 20 million is part of a legal settlement that specified spending per school, not
per nation.

A federal judge has approved the multibillion-dollar class-action legal settlement known as House v. NCAA, paving the way for a new era for college sports.

Starting this fall, colleges and universities in the NCAA's top division will be allowed to directly pay athletes for the first time. Payments will be limited by a salary cap set initially at $20.5 million per school.

https://www.npr.org/2025/06/06/nx-s1-5426123/ncaa-settlement-deal-athlete-compensation-judge

 

[volfan102455]

Wait you said per school - so if there are 1000 schools that is 1000 *20M = 20,000,000,000 = 20 billion. So 55B is not as crazy as it sounds.

That would be 36K per student.

And yes there is over 1000 colleges that offer sports in the U.S.

 

[madtownvol]

20 million for 554,298 student athletes = $36.08 per athlete per year. But I get it, football players will say, that is only for me and when that happens athletes from other sports will challenge and ask for their share.

The creative fiction as you call it - is based on the athletes wanting more than just pocket change.

What is happening is what will be happening. The revenue sharing deal now in place allocates 70% of the revenues to men's football and basketball. Schools have discretion on how they allocate the rest.

So, the athlete from the female rowing team will get way less from the revenue sharing than the star QB but she does have some NIL options, at least.

Unfortunately, I imagine that over time a lot of secondary sports will be cut at major D1s and will re-emerge as club programs.

Perhaps you might like to read up a bit on the actual terms of the revenue sharing model before posting about it. Here is one link that breaks it all down pretty clearly and that addresses the financial pressures:

NCAA Revenue Sharing & NIL Estimates 2025

 

[madtownvol]

Wait you said per school - so if there are 1000 schools that is 1000 *20M = 20,000,000,000 = 20 billion. So 55B is not as crazy as it sounds.

That would be 36K per student.

And yes there is over 1000 colleges that offer sports in the U.S.

UP TO 20 million. That is an upper limit. The Alcorn States of this world will not be offering that kind of revenue sharing.

 

[1reVOLver]

Wait you said per school - so if there are 1000 schools that is 1000 *20M = 20,000,000,000 = 20 billion. So 55B is not as crazy as it sounds.

That would be 36K per student.

And yes there is over 1000 colleges that offer sports in the U.S.

No. Please stop speculating and read about the House v NCAA CASE. the $20.5 million number is a permissible maximum for some, not all, colleges and universities.

• Revenue Sharing: Starting July 1, 2025, Division I schools can share up to 22% of the average Power Four conference media revenue with athletes, estimated at ~$20.5 million annually per school.

The world of college sports enters historic new territory after Judge Claudia Wilken granted final approval to the $2.8 billion settlement of the federal class-action antitrust lawsuit House v. NCAA on June 6, 2025.1 Much ink has been spilled about this litigation and the settlement, so we will be brief. The most significant elements of the settlement are as follows:

1. Athletes who competed in 2016-2024 and did not receive NIL (name, image, and likeness) compensation will receive payments totaling $2.8 billion over the next ten years.
2. Colleges and universities can directly compensate athletes roughly $20.5 million per school in 2025-2026, increasing by 4% annually for the next ten years.
3. New rules will limit the number of players allowed to be on team rosters.
4. A new entity, the College Sports Commission LLC (CSC), will be responsible for enforcing the rules relating to revenue-sharing, NIL deals, and roster limits.

Although the full impact of this settlement is uncertain, at least one appeal has already been filed, and additional litigation appears inevitable. On June 11, 2025, eight female athletes filed an appeal arguing that the distribution of approximately $2.8 billion violates Title IX because female athletes will receive less money than men’s basketball and football players.2Under the terms of the settlement, the first payments were scheduled to be made on July 1, 2025. Those payments will now be deferred while the appeal is under review.3

Final Approval for House v. NCAA Settlement Brings New Era, More Litigation

House v. NCAA settlement approved, $2.8B for athletes, new rules, CSC oversight, appeals filed, NIL deals audited, ongoing litigation expected.

www.wilmerhale.com

 

[lfvol]

No. Please stop speculating and read about the House v NCAA CASE. the $20.5 million number is a permissible maximum for some, not all, colleges and universities.

This. Plus clearinghouse approved third party marketing deals. In WBB, those seem most applicable to the best players like Edwards.

 

[volsagain]

Wait you said per school - so if there are 1000 schools that is 1000 *20M = 20,000,000,000 = 20 billion. So 55B is not as crazy as it sounds.

That would be 36K per student.

And yes there is over 1000 colleges that offer sports in the U.S.

Women's basketball get like 5% of that which is around 100,000 . That can be distributed away they decide. One player could get 20,000 and some not so much. I can't recall the specific number but that's how it works. That's profit sharing not NIL .

 

[volfan102455]

Women's basketball get like 5% of that which is around 100,000 . That can be distributed away they decide. One player could get 20,000 and some not so much. I can't recall the specific number but that's how it works. That's profit sharing not NIL .

Hmm - so not really fairly distributed. This only feeds into the craziness.

 

[volfan102455]

Expensive rules to manage. A nice chunk of the pie would vaporize into overhead.

Exactly. The concept of revenue sharing is typically connected to employees and stockholders of corporations so the move to employee is probably the next step - but though some say that should happen, it is not what the players think it is.

 

[volsagain]

Hmm - so not really fairly distributed. This only feeds into the craziness.

Football generates 99% of the revenue so and only gets to keep 75% men's basketball 15% women's basketball 5% all other sports 5% I know this isn't exactly right but close.

 

[1morevol]

That i cant answer. That's a Kim question.

It is. Maybe she should get 40% of that 100%?

 

[chuckiepoo]

Hmm - so not really fairly distributed. This only feeds into the craziness.

Not distributed fairly? That’s debatable. Not distributed evenly? Zero question about that. The basis of distribution is currently the recommendation from the SEC office.

 

[LVBB_Legacy]

There is only one way CKC should keep her job. Abandon the system. If she can convince DW that she will be going back to conventional basketball systems, he may give her another year. If she says that she will not change than she should be gone. It doesn't work and one more year will be more of the same, and some of us older folks need to see an improvement pronto. LOL. Recruits have seen this year what has happened and how little some of the good players play, so she has to commit to getting rid of this stupid system if she wants good players to come here. IMO, she should be gone anyway regardless of what she says.

Yeah, having a coach adopt a completely different system that they've never run before is a sure prescription for immediate basketball success.

 

[LVBB_Legacy]

Women's basketball get like 5% of that which is around 100,000 . That can be distributed away they decide. One player could get 20,000 and some not so much. I can't recall the specific number but that's how it works. That's profit sharing not NIL .

5% of $20 million is $1 Million. Pretty substantial funds.

 

[ScreamingEagleVol]

Yeah, having a coach adopt a completely different system that they've never run before is a sure prescription for immediate basketball success.

I wouldn’t expect her to abandon her system completely but I would not be surprised if she hasn’t been approached by people in the AD in regards to such

 

[VintageFan]

I don't think NIL compensation comes from the school's coffers, does it? I thought it was sponsors who pay the students for agreed upon promotional deals. I'm sure there are checks being passed around under the table too, but performance guarantees on those would be the equivalent of asking for a refund on a TV that you stole.

A lot of folks confuse NIL with revenue sharing. Revenue sharing is easy -- divide a pre-determined pot of annual money between all the athletes. The issue, then, is how its divided -- what percentage of the total pot for each sports team and then how that teams money is divided among the team's players, ideally equally. With NIL the top players on the big revenue producing teams are going to receive a lot more cash based on the deals their agents can make for them. The big issue is how the school administrators are involved, how that impacts recruiting, and the responsibilities (and liabilities) of the players, coaches, and administrators.

I've always felt that the professional sports leagues should be providing financial support to the colleges that provide so many of their players. Now that the whole concept of "amateur college athletics" has been tossed I don't think there's anything that would prevent that being an albeit small part of the equation.

Any basketball or football player at UT is NOT an amateur nor a University employee. He or she is an independent contractor. Luckily for them they don't have to pay income tax on the value of the tuition and room and board they receive. But they should receive 1099s for everything else. And that includes make-work jobs for relatives, bags of cash, vacation travel, automobile use, etc. In many states, however, an independent contractor who receives all their income from a single source can be declared a defacto employee and the employer can be forced to collect witholding. Other legal issues that have to be resolved are whether schools or conferences can limit the amounts players can receive and whether the players can organize/unionize and present demands.

Pandora's box has been opened. No one is going to be able to close it shut.

 

[madtownvol]

A lot of folks confuse NIL with revenue sharing. Revenue sharing is easy -- divide a pre-determined pot of annual money between all the athletes. The issue, then, is how its divided -- what percentage of the total pot for each sports team and then how that teams money is divided among the team's players, ideally equally. With NIL the top players on the big revenue producing teams are going to receive a lot more cash based on the deals their agents can make for them. The big issue is how the school administrators are involved, how that impacts recruiting, and the responsibilities (and liabilities) of the players, coaches, and administrators.

I've always felt that the professional sports leagues should be providing financial support to the colleges that provide so many of their players. Now that the whole concept of "amateur college athletics" has been tossed I don't think there's anything that would prevent that being an albeit small part of the equation.

Any basketball or football player at UT is NOT an amateur nor a University employee. He or she is an independent contractor. Luckily for them they don't have to pay income tax on the value of the tuition and room and board they receive. But they should receive 1099s for everything else. And that includes make-work jobs for relatives, bags of cash, vacation travel, automobile use, etc. In many states, however, an independent contractor who receives all their income from a single source can be declared a defacto employee and the employer can be forced to collect witholding. Other legal issues that have to be resolved are whether schools or conferences can limit the amounts players can receive and whether the players can organize/unionize and present demands.

Pandora's box has been opened. No one is going to be able to close it shut.

From AI: Athletes generally do not pay taxes on scholarship funds used for tuition, fees, books, and required equipment. . However, scholarship portions covering room and board, stipends, or other non-qualified expenses are considered taxable income. Any amount exceeding qualified education costs must be reported on tax returns.

IN the pre-NIL days, college athletes were generally making enough (reported income) to have pay taxes on room and board. Probably not the case for many now.

 

[volfan102455]

Any basketball or football player at UT is NOT an amateur nor a University employee. He or she is an independent contractor. Luckily for them they don't have to pay income tax on the value of the tuition and room and board they receive. But they should receive 1099s for everything else. And that includes make-work jobs for relatives, bags of cash, vacation travel, automobile use, etc. In many states, however, an independent contractor who receives all their income from a single source can be declared a defacto employee and the employer can be forced to collect witholding. Other legal issues that have to be resolved are whether schools or conferences can limit the amounts players can receive and whether the players can organize/unionize and present demands.

Pandora's box has been opened. No one is going to be able to close it shut.

Except in Mississippi where they have adjusted tax laws for NIL. NIL should be taxed like income earned by others in the state of Mississippi but the athletes get a break from that.

As for not paying tax on tuition and room / board, do the athletes get special breaks there? A student that gets scholarships and grants that pay for that, has to file that with their taxes. Yes they can take a level of exemptions for 4 years, but they must file it. I know this because I have assisted a student for the past 4 years with taxes. It surprised me that first year when I had to include the scholarships, grants and such. It tends to net to zero when you use the exemptions unless the money you received was greater than what the school reported you used for school.