This whole "if we don't land a home run, we should keep Dooley" thing

#26
#26
UTRavens said:
Because...you said so? There is no evidence indicating that's the AD office's mindset. If basically every rumor has any credence, that's the exact opposite of what they're thinking.
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nope. Not because I said so....:wink2:
 
#27
#27
Historically speaking some great coaches of the past had iffy first years. I saw a story about Paterno's first years being bad and that he would have been fired in today's world, and I don't think Saban's record at Michigan State was awesome and they didn't have to play in the SEC. I don't think Dooley's future results are guaranteed - the offense is not terrible and defenses historically improve in year 2 of switch to 3-4. The possibility of improved results is there whether we have any confidence in him or not and could actually be better than a different coach's results (just like getting rid of Fulmer vs keeping him - if we'd hired the right coach firing him would have been good - as it was we may have been better off today if we'd kept him). I'm not saying I want to keep Dooley but I also don't want just anybody just to make a change. I want to get this right and return Tennessee to the top.
 
#28
#28
tnktm said:
Historically speaking some great coaches of the past had iffy first years. I saw a story about Paterno's first years being bad and that he would have been fired in today's world, and I don't think Saban's record at Michigan State was awesome and they didn't have to play in the SEC. I don't think Dooley's future results are guaranteed - the offense is not terrible and defenses historically improve in year 2 of switch to 3-4. The possibility of improved results is there whether we have any confidence in him or not and could actually be better than a different coach's results (just like getting rid of Fulmer vs keeping him - if we'd hired the right coach firing him would have been good - as it was we may have been better off today if we'd kept him). I'm not saying I want to keep Dooley but I also don't want just anybody just to make a change. I want to get this right and return Tennessee to the top.
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For every coach who turned it around after a rough start, there are 25 who didn't. Out of every Dooley supporter I've seen on this board, I can't remember any of them citing a single good thing he had done. I sure can't think of anything.

And Paterno had one .500 year before immediately leading an elite team.
 
#29
#29
I don't want to see UT tied into another multi-multi-year contract to a hopeful.

That's what's killing us --when someone doesn't work out, it costs a fortune to show them the door, and then it costs a second fortune to bring the next one in.

Look how long we've been paying CPF (yes, I realize that he doesn't fall into the category of "hopeful," which reinforces what I'm saying.)

Unless we have an endless supply of boosters with bottomless pockets who will cut our losses for us, we need to be smart with the next hire.
 
#31
#31
It won't take a "home run hire" to improve on the levels that Dooley is currently producing in terms of wins and losses, recruiting, and just an overall level of improvement of the program.

Plenty of coaches out there that prove every Saturday they can teach a defensive team to line up properly and tackle.

It's pretty obvious he has plateaued in recruiting and has exhibited exceptionally poor judgement in this Sunseri fiasco.

Making a change isn't an option, it's a requirement of this program wants to excel beyond a 3rd tier program.
 
#32
#32
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Good post. To continue with Dooley is suicide.
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No, it would be worse to do another CLK, mid-major or coordinator hire.

We have to show that UT has the commitment to winning by finding and hiring a coach that can compete with the Sabans.

Anything less of a hire then we are Miss State.
 
#33
#33
You don't have to be drunk on Gruden to see that Dooley is a horrible coach. He is not a winner. 31-39. And he is the head coach of our football program. If it weren't for his last name, I have serious doubt he would be in this position. He is just not a good coach. I want a good coach, even if it isn't Gruden.
 
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#34
#34
UTRavens said:
It doesn't work that way. The resources we have now are as attractive as they ever will be with Dooley. Otherwise, you have no idea what it is you're holding out for.

And Kirby Smart is more likely to be a good coach here than Dooley. Anything is better than 0%. We'd almost certainly have better options than Smart anyway.
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Kirby Smart is also an actual coordinator at a school that has won championships.

I'd say he is at least as qualified as Dooley to lead a program.

Dooley has zero experience actually calling a game on either side of the ball to this day and, when he has been in charge of everything, has a losing record.

Why not give a "non home run hire" a shot?
 
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#36
#36
I'm in the group that says keep Dooley if we don't land a homerun. Reason is, Dooley is going to be getting UTs money regardless if he is coaching next year or not. Why settle for a slight upgrade when we can set and wait for something better? The fans don't want to take that long to rebuild because it feels like we've been waiting far too long as it is. Get a good coach who will turn this program around quicker because how much of a difference would a Kirby Smart type of coach make? Probably same Dooley results for a couple of years.
 
#37
#37
Shaun1985 said:
I'm in the group that says keep Dooley if we don't land a homerun. Reason is, Dooley is going to be getting UTs money regardless if he is coaching next year or not. Why settle for a slight upgrade when we can set and wait for something better? The fans don't want to take that long to rebuild because it feels like we've been waiting far too long as it is. Get a good coach who will turn this program around quicker because how much of a difference would a Kirby Smart type of coach make? Probably same Dooley results for a couple of years.
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Do you think Kirby Smart or another solid DC type at head coach can run this defense better than Sunseri is currently? I do.

Hell, keep Chaney around, people complain about the play calls and Bray but that is a minor problem compared to the defense.

All it would take is modest improvement in the defense and a coach that can convince Bray and Hunter to stick around for this to be a team that is at least in the discussion for the SEC East next year.

Not saying they win it, but this team is better than the results we are seeing right now.
 
#38
#38
What's insane is spending that much money to gamble with the future of this program. I am glad it is such an easy decision for someone who is not shelling out the 10 mil just to get rid of Dooley, let alone the money you have to pay the new coach..

Then what happens in 2 years when the new coach has not won us the SEC either? another buyout?

And the flaw in your logic here is the team IS getting better, our talent level IS rising..

If you are to blinded by hate for Dooley to see that, I feel sorry for you.

Is he doing good enough? obviously not or we would not even be having this conversation. But until you know for a fact your hiring the guy thats puts us back on top of the world. Let Dooley keep improving the team to make it easier for the RIGHT guy to put us over the hump.

It is sooo easy to spend other peoples money, but people do not understand that many zero's at the end of a number because they will never even see that much money in their entire lives.
 
#39
#39
ImportedVoL said:
What's insane is spending that much money to gamble with the future of this program. I am glad it is such an easy decision for someone who is not shelling out the 10 mil just to get rid of Dooley, let alone the money you have to pay the new coach..

Then what happens in 2 years when the new coach has not won us the SEC either? another buyout?

And the flaw in your logic here is the team IS getting better, our talent level IS rising..

If you are to blinded by hate for Dooley to see that, I feel sorry for you.

Is he doing good enough? obviously not or we would not even be having this conversation. But until you know for a fact your hiring the guy thats puts us back on top of the world. Let Dooley keep improving the team to make it easier for the RIGHT guy to put us over the hump.

It is sooo easy to spend other peoples money, but people do not understand that many zero's at the end of a number because they will never even see that much money in their entire lives.
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It's not your money being spent either, so why should you care?

And no one on here is actually making the decision, but it gives fans something to discuss in lieu of any actual quality football or wins the past month.

The offense looks solid but leaves far too many plays on the field. The defense is somehow regressing 8 games into the season.

It's not a matter of hating Dooley for most fans, it's a matter of understanding how poor a decision he has made in Sunseri and expecting better for this program.
 
#40
#40
Yes, Keep Dools until you get a big fish coach. If you replace Dools, it causes attrition for maybe nothing and then you are stuck with the new guy for 2-3 more years
 
#41
#41
you can't screw up the next hire. If it takes another year to get the right guy because it can't be done this year, you let the HC play out his contract, and take another stab when the program rebuilding has another year behind it and a good graduating sr class.
Running through a list of coaches and a search to end up bringing in somebody like Kirby Smart next year makes little sense. This line of thought has little to do with wanting Dooley to stay or be gone. It has to do with the program's next step and after several missteps, you can't make any more.
Botched PF firing
Botched Kiffin hiring
Botched Kiffin departure
Botched coaching search
Proving to be a botched hiring
You can't botch the next firing/hiring process. com

I don't know why some would assume that to be an insane angle to view this situation.
 
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#43
#43
UTRavens said:
How is keeping Dooley not gambling with the future of this program?
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+1

Keeping Dooley would be no different than having 25000 gallons of gasoline dumped onto Neyland Stadium from a plane and then setting it ablaze.

If Hart has decided winning is no longer important, just announce that to the fans/public so we can stop caring about the direction of this program. If we go into 2013 with Derek Dooley, this team will quit before the 3rd game of the year. Imagine the coach you can attract then, another losing season, players quitting, and fans not showing up. Waiting is even more a roll of the dice.
 
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#44
#44
Do you not agree that the team as a whole is markedly better than last year? Do you not agree that the team has clearly trended up? Do you not agree that the transition to a base 3-4 defense takes time and that, given the opportunity, Sal would have the D working properly by next year?

Given the trend from last year to this year, and understanding that changing an entire defense takes more than a year, I would venture to say that next year's team would be far better than we are now. The offense, which I now believe only stays with Dooley or a $4mil+ coach, will be even more efficient. The defense will be fully transitioned and properly trained. We will be on the level of the Floridas, Georgias, and South Carolinas of the college football world.

One name I wouldn't mind seeing looked at is Dom Capers.
 
#45
#45
If we lose to a bad team, then I might jump ship. But right now, we've beaten the teams we were supposed to beat (Akron, GA State), we've beaten the team people basically thought we should beat (NC State), we've lost to the teams were supposed to lose to (Alabama, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Mississippi State). The fact of the matter is that we are right on schedule for where we should be right now. If we played these teams last year, we are blown out by each of those 5 and probably lose to NC State.
 
#46
#46
I have seen all I need to see from Dooley and Sal. I know I am not speaking for everyone. IMO, we need a new staff in 2013 or this team will fall apart. Who is to say alot of our JRs do not bail because Dooley is retained? Have you spoke to them and confirmed they want him back? The product on the field tells me this team is headed for problems. You can't tell me that of the 27 DBs we have on campus not a one of them can tackle. Everytime Dooley yanks a kid(after the 1st 13) it speaks to the coaching and NOT the players. I have zero faith in Dooley. His resume shows his coaching abilities or lack thereof. If he stays, this team will collapse.
 
#47
#47
LebanonVolunteer said:
I have seen all I need to see from Dooley and Sal. I know I am not speaking for everyone. IMO, we need a new staff in 2013 or this team will fall apart. Who is to say alot of our JRs do not bail because Dooley is retained? Have you spoke to them and confirmed they want him back? The product on the field tells me this team is headed for problems. You can't tell me that of the 27 DBs we have on campus not a one of them can tackle. Everytime Dooley yanks a kid(after the 1st 13) it speaks to the coaching and NOT the players. I have zero faith in Dooley. His resume shows his coaching abilities or lack thereof. If he stays, this team will collapse.
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Or the team continues its upward trend and the defense gets better with extra bowl practices another full offseason of training in the 3-4. Cause...ya know...we're going to a bowl game.
 
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#48
#48
bcartervol98 said:
Said it before, would rather have Smokey take off the dog suit and grab the headset than have Dooley back next year. No such thing as a downgrade.
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IMHO You don’t fire Dooley until the end of the regular season and you don’t do it then if you don’t have someone really good already lined up. That doesn’t have to be Gruden or a "Home Run" hire, but it needs to be someone with a proven HC record in an AC conference, preferably the SEC, or the NFL. If all you can get is another “up and coming coordinator” or an HC from a lower tier league you may as well stick with DD until you can get a true upgrade.

As for those of you who say it can’t get worse, so just fire DD, because anyone is better; watch what happens with another “on the job trainee” guy with another whole new staff and system and hide a watch as the Vols go “Auburn” on us. Just saying….
 
#49
#49
crusse10 said:
Or the team continues its upward trend and the defense gets better with extra bowl practices another full offseason of training in the 3-4. Cause...ya know...we're going to a bowl game.
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We could go to a bowl game. If it comes down to winning a game like UK to get to the MCB, I would not count on it happening. We already saw how that plays out. I have just never been able to see moral victories as improvement. "We played them closer" is something Vandy says. UT should be better than that. JMO
 
#50
#50
LebanonVolunteer said:
We could go to a bowl game. If it comes down to winning a game like UK to get to the MCB, I would not count on it happening. We already saw how that plays out. I have just never been able to see moral victories as improvement. "We played them closer" is something Vandy says. UT should be better than that. JMO
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Thanks to the years from 2005 to the present, we are Vandy. We have to look at in-game improvements and understand that getting back from the mess that Phil left requires baby steps. Last year was bad. This year is better. The team is clearly on pace to decimate Troy this week, run and throw past Missouri, pound it against Vandy, and crush Kentucky, the worst team in the SEC. We are the lower part of the middle of the pack right now, but we aren't at the bottom. Hiring someone else to achieve the same results is pointless. It puts us in debt and changes nothing on the field. Hiring a $4mil+ guy changes it completely.
 
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