The Vols will be better than expected if (-----).

#155
#155
chargervol said:
Lol, ahh mink.
Am I the only one that sees the Ric Flair, bouncing around "woooo" gif everytime I see him post?


Wouldn't trade it for anything, Wooooo!
Click to expand...

I've heard the name, but I couldn't tell you who Ric Flair is.

I enjoy Minks posts. He cracks me up.
 
#156
#156
Behr said:
I'm a firm believer in momentum, however it's defined.
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'Totally agree, Behr. The injury pandemic was enough on its own, but I think by the time the Vols rolled into Columbia to face SCe, then Hurd literally quit the team at half-time (after laying down at each first touch), well, these guys were pretty much spent from thereon. DEs were having to pretend to be DTs, our DBs were playing guessing games and losing, LBs were trying to learn-on-the-job and UF, dammit, somehow got by LSU. Who'd have boatloads of big Mo after all that? What'll UT have to do to exceed expectations? For starters: Stay decently healthy. Doing that can cure the stigma that started with Shy's broken foot and stayed around through 2016.
 
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#160
#160
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Appy State was losing in the trenches and used a strategy of faking an injury on practically every play in the second half as a bush league response. If they would have lined up and played instead of lying down it wouldn't have been close.
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Appy states nose guard was 5-8 and physically dominated Coleman Thomas the entire game. Thomas was dealing with a high ankle sprain, but he still got whipped the whole game.
 
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#161
#161
VFL-82-JP said:
Ok, this is turning into a discussion of the English language rather than football, but you could've said "to a bad team" and been more or less right (compared to Power 5) ... or "to a SunBelt team" and been right (with all that implies). But to say "to a bad SunBelt team," putting the two together, that's just wrong. They were the BEST SunBelt team in 2016. Period.

I'm not saying this to defend the Vols' dismal performance. Saying it purely to give the Mountaineers credit for what they accomplished in 2016. They were their conference champs.
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Splitting hairs JP. I could've said it better...they weren't a "bad SunBelt team", they were just a, relatively speaking, bad team in college football when compared to P5 conference teams, that played in the SunBelt Conference. When you look at their schedule from 2016, only two things stand out....their 2 games vs P5 teams.....a 20-13 OT loss at Tennessee and a 45-10 home loss vs Miami, as most would say on here, a lowly ACC team.
 
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#164
#164
Behr said:
Why does it bother people so much that other people get excited and optimistic? Lol, its friggin football. The world ain't ending. I can't wait for season. I hope we win the fawkin Super Bowl.
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Amen Behr!! There is nothing wrong with looking forward to the season and feeling optimistic!! I would rather be optimistic about something I love than dread it and be miserable. I'll never understand that..
 
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#166
#166
buckfama said:
Amen Behr!! There is nothing wrong with looking forward to the season and feeling optimistic!! I would rather be optimistic about something I love than dread it and be miserable. I'll never understand that..
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Yea, if you think about it a little, you won't completely understand but you'll understand better.
 
#167
#167
Behr said:
Why does it bother people so much that other people get excited and optimistic? Lol, its friggin football. The world ain't ending. I can't wait for season. I hope we win the fawkin Super Bowl.
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It doesn't bother me.

Why does ppl want to bash others that have concerns of CBJ being a coach competing for ships on the field? And just like CBJ, so sensitive about criticism, why?



Just curious, was it the pumpers or negas who wanted to keep Dooley? Couldn't be negas

We see and understand that it's better than Dooley....he's not how we measure our standard. Many believe our backups were old enough and should have been developed enough....to beat bottom feeders SC and Vandy...some don't believe that and apparently we are not changing each other's minds.

Until CBJ proves....keyword.....he can compete with the best and stop botching games we should win..he will be criticized

We do share the same hope.
 
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#168
#168
The OL plays like it belongs in the SEC and someone else shows up that can play LB besides McDowell and DKjr... I think everything else is "good" or can be. Could use some depth in places but that's not something that can be fixed over the summer.
 
#169
#169
sjt18 said:
The OL plays like it belongs in the SEC and someone else shows up that can play LB besides McDowell and DKjr... I think everything else is "good" or can be. Could use some depth in places but that's not something that can be fixed over the summer.
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Yes....we have plenty of old heads in those spots. All of them are CBJ guys....time to be developed and kick tail.
 
#170
#170
buckfama said:
Amen Behr!! There is nothing wrong with looking forward to the season and feeling optimistic!! I would rather be optimistic about something I love than dread it and be miserable. I'll never understand that..
Click to expand...

I'm not optimistic or pessimistic. I am realistic and hopeful.

I HOPE for the best but am realistic about some of the things that place limits on expectations.

One, Jones still hasn't proven he belongs in the SEC. You can make excuses and dodge this way or that... but the bottom line is that Jones has lost too many games that should have or reasonably could have been won. He really only has a couple of upset wins to his credit and those weren't earthshattering.

Two, I personally feel really good about the QB position and even the development there in spite of not previously having had a QB coach. I'm probably in the minority that doesn't think that was necessarily a mistake by Jones. If you are going to replace a 3 year starter... you can't do much better than a 4th year Jr... or a RS Fr who beat him out.

Three, I like Kelly. I like Kelly better as a RB in this system than I ever liked Kamara or Hurd. AK's value was more as a receiver IMO. Kelly finds the creases and pressures the 2nd level. UT needs another option to protect Kelly's health. But I hope for great things out of him.

Four, the OL. There's talent. You have to presume the guys have learned something and physically developed in some way since joining the team. I think I count at least 7 guys coming back with starting or significant playing experience. There are 7 guys with at least 3 years in the program. But somehow this group has consistently underperformed and especially when competition levels go up. I HOPE they pull it together under Wells but this is a significant concern based on what they've shown. It is particularly a concern because it could be Jones' system and not something the players should be and aren't doing.

Five, WR/TE- I like them. There's not a ton of returning production but I for one am very happy to see Azzani gone. If he was the one behind no 7 on 7 then all the better. I really think he did a poor job of developing UT's talent at WR. I have great hope this group will emerge with the new QB.

Six, DL- What's not to love about DT if they can stay healthy? I love the approach Hoke has brought and his desire to have his guys hyper aggressive. There ARE concerns at DE. For whatever reason, UT really hasn't gotten much out of anyone but the 3 guys who were lost over the past couple of years. Hopefully someone will emerge out of what appears to be a very talented group.

Seven, LB- This is a huge problem. You only have two guys on the roster who have ever played like they belong in the SEC... and both of them have missed time due to injury. I don't know if it is a talent issue, coaching issue, system issue, or something else. But UT needs to go two deep or more at all 3 positions... as of the end of last season they weren't close.

8, Secondary- Love the safeties. You have 3 or 4 potential studs at safety.... guys who definitely belong in the SEC and who could play for anyone in the country. I think there's talent at CB and N. My HOPE is that the 7 on 7's will allow them to develop their cover skills and communication more than ever before.

9, Defensive staff- I have thought Shoop was a great hire from the start and still do. Give Jones max credit with a lame duck AD for going out and getting the hottest DC name in the country. Shoop didn't recruit the players he was left with and didn't have anything like what he needed at LB to run his system. The roster to a significant degree was recruited and developed to run Jancek's system. A year will hopefully help. I think there were chemistry problems between Shoop and Jancek's holdovers... and maybe worse. To me the two changes were definite upgrades and especially in terms of buying into the way Shoop does things. I am hopeful that UT will not only improve over all but improve over their high water mark last year. UT was at a respectable 21 ppg at the end of September and had played good competition. I am hopeful that the injury causes have been addressed and they will be better than that for the season this year.

10, Offensive staff- apprehension. There are some quality coaches but Wells and Scott in particular are take a pretty major step up in responsibility and/or competition. I like Canales and LOVE Beard. IMO, this staff was assembled to run Jones' system, Jones' way. That imo will be his rise or fall.

11- HC-apprehension. You have to give Jones credit for how far he's brought the program. At the same time, he has revealed some potentially fatal flaws in his first 4 years. Hopefully he can get better. Hopefully he's now surrounded himself with a complimentary staff that is strong where he's weak. HOPEFULLY, he turns the corner this year and proves he can lead a team to perform above "reasonable" expectations... 9 or 10 regular season wins. Hopefully he won't win 8 again and reinforce his mediocrity... or worse.

So is "hope a dangerous thing"?
 
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#172
#172
jbr82 said:
Just curious, was it the pumpers or negas who wanted to keep Dooley? Couldn't be negas
Click to expand...

They aren't fixed groups.

Sure, there are a few permanent Eeyores, just never get out of the gloom. I guess you could call them permanent Negas.

And there are a few little rays of sunshine who can never see anythig but the best in any situation. Could call them permanent pumpers.

But most of us aren't like them. We bounce back and forth, sometimes negative on something or someone, sometimes very positive on other things or people.

And often, we're stuck somewhere in the middle. Like the majority of VolNation right now on our chances of winning championships with Butch.
 
#173
#173
sjt18 said:
I'm not optimistic or pessimistic. I am realistic and hopeful.

I HOPE for the best but am realistic about some of the things that place limits on expectations.

One, Jones still hasn't proven he belongs in the SEC. You can make excuses and dodge this way or that... but the bottom line is that Jones has lost too many games that should have or reasonably could have been won. He really only has a couple of upset wins to his credit and those weren't earthshattering.

Two, I personally feel really good about the QB position and even the development there in spite of not previously having had a QB coach. I'm probably in the minority that doesn't think that was necessarily a mistake by Jones. If you are going to replace a 3 year starter... you can't do much better than a 4th year Jr... or a RS Fr who beat him out.

Three, I like Kelly. I like Kelly better as a RB in this system than I ever liked Kamara or Hurd. AK's value was more as a receiver IMO. Kelly finds the creases and pressures the 2nd level. UT needs another option to protect Kelly's health. But I hope for great things out of him.

Four, the OL. There's talent. You have to presume the guys have learned something and physically developed in some way since joining the team. I think I count at least 7 guys coming back with starting or significant playing experience. There are 7 guys with at least 3 years in the program. But somehow this group has consistently underperformed and especially when competition levels go up. I HOPE they pull it together under Wells but this is a significant concern based on what they've shown. It is particularly a concern because it could be Jones' system and not something the players should be and aren't doing.

Five, WR/TE- I like them. There's not a ton of returning production but I for one am very happy to see Azzani gone. If he was the one behind no 7 on 7 then all the better. I really think he did a poor job of developing UT's talent at WR. I have great hope this group will emerge with the new QB.

Six, DL- What's not to love about DT if they can stay healthy? I love the approach Hoke has brought and his desire to have his guys hyper aggressive. There ARE concerns at DE. For whatever reason, UT really hasn't gotten much out of anyone but the 3 guys who were lost over the past couple of years. Hopefully someone will emerge out of what appears to be a very talented group.

Seven, LB- This is a huge problem. You only have two guys on the roster who have ever played like they belong in the SEC... and both of them have missed time due to injury. I don't know if it is a talent issue, coaching issue, system issue, or something else. But UT needs to go two deep or more at all 3 positions... as of the end of last season they weren't close.

8, Secondary- Love the safeties. You have 3 or 4 potential studs at safety.... guys who definitely belong in the SEC and who could play for anyone in the country. I think there's talent at CB and N. My HOPE is that the 7 on 7's will allow them to develop their cover skills and communication more than ever before.

9, Defensive staff- I have thought Shoop was a great hire from the start and still do. Give Jones max credit with a lame duck AD for going out and getting the hottest DC name in the country. Shoop didn't recruit the players he was left with and didn't have anything like what he needed at LB to run his system. The roster to a significant degree was recruited and developed to run Jancek's system. A year will hopefully help. I think there were chemistry problems between Shoop and Jancek's holdovers... and maybe worse. To me the two changes were definite upgrades and especially in terms of buying into the way Shoop does things. I am hopeful that UT will not only improve over all but improve over their high water mark last year. UT was at a respectable 21 ppg at the end of September and had played good competition. I am hopeful that the injury causes have been addressed and they will be better than that for the season this year.

10, Offensive staff- apprehension. There are some quality coaches but Wells and Scott in particular are take a pretty major step up in responsibility and/or competition. I like Canales and LOVE Beard. IMO, this staff was assembled to run Jones' system, Jones' way. That imo will be his rise or fall.

11- HC-apprehension. You have to give Jones credit for how far he's brought the program. At the same time, he has revealed some potentially fatal flaws in his first 4 years. Hopefully he can get better. Hopefully he's now surrounded himself with a complimentary staff that is strong where he's weak. HOPEFULLY, he turns the corner this year and proves he can lead a team to perform above "reasonable" expectations... 9 or 10 regular season wins. Hopefully he won't win 8 again and reinforce his mediocrity... or worse.

So is "hope a dangerous thing"?
Click to expand...

All in all, a beautiful post.

Lighting the way for any out there who might not yet understand that you can have concerns and still be a fan (fanatic) of your team. It is possible, and even okay, to embrace both at the same time.

Thanks, SJT, very well said.
 
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#174
#174
sjt18 said:
I'm not optimistic or pessimistic. I am realistic and hopeful.

I HOPE for the best but am realistic about some of the things that place limits on expectations.

One, Jones still hasn't proven he belongs in the SEC. You can make excuses and dodge this way or that... but the bottom line is that Jones has lost too many games that should have or reasonably could have been won. He really only has a couple of upset wins to his credit and those weren't earthshattering.

Two, I personally feel really good about the QB position and even the development there in spite of not previously having had a QB coach. I'm probably in the minority that doesn't think that was necessarily a mistake by Jones. If you are going to replace a 3 year starter... you can't do much better than a 4th year Jr... or a RS Fr who beat him out.

Three, I like Kelly. I like Kelly better as a RB in this system than I ever liked Kamara or Hurd. AK's value was more as a receiver IMO. Kelly finds the creases and pressures the 2nd level. UT needs another option to protect Kelly's health. But I hope for great things out of him.

Four, the OL. There's talent. You have to presume the guys have learned something and physically developed in some way since joining the team. I think I count at least 7 guys coming back with starting or significant playing experience. There are 7 guys with at least 3 years in the program. But somehow this group has consistently underperformed and especially when competition levels go up. I HOPE they pull it together under Wells but this is a significant concern based on what they've shown. It is particularly a concern because it could be Jones' system and not something the players should be and aren't doing.

Five, WR/TE- I like them. There's not a ton of returning production but I for one am very happy to see Azzani gone. If he was the one behind no 7 on 7 then all the better. I really think he did a poor job of developing UT's talent at WR. I have great hope this group will emerge with the new QB.

Six, DL- What's not to love about DT if they can stay healthy? I love the approach Hoke has brought and his desire to have his guys hyper aggressive. There ARE concerns at DE. For whatever reason, UT really hasn't gotten much out of anyone but the 3 guys who were lost over the past couple of years. Hopefully someone will emerge out of what appears to be a very talented group.

Seven, LB- This is a huge problem. You only have two guys on the roster who have ever played like they belong in the SEC... and both of them have missed time due to injury. I don't know if it is a talent issue, coaching issue, system issue, or something else. But UT needs to go two deep or more at all 3 positions... as of the end of last season they weren't close.

8, Secondary- Love the safeties. You have 3 or 4 potential studs at safety.... guys who definitely belong in the SEC and who could play for anyone in the country. I think there's talent at CB and N. My HOPE is that the 7 on 7's will allow them to develop their cover skills and communication more than ever before.

9, Defensive staff- I have thought Shoop was a great hire from the start and still do. Give Jones max credit with a lame duck AD for going out and getting the hottest DC name in the country. Shoop didn't recruit the players he was left with and didn't have anything like what he needed at LB to run his system. The roster to a significant degree was recruited and developed to run Jancek's system. A year will hopefully help. I think there were chemistry problems between Shoop and Jancek's holdovers... and maybe worse. To me the two changes were definite upgrades and especially in terms of buying into the way Shoop does things. I am hopeful that UT will not only improve over all but improve over their high water mark last year. UT was at a respectable 21 ppg at the end of September and had played good competition. I am hopeful that the injury causes have been addressed and they will be better than that for the season this year.

10, Offensive staff- apprehension. There are some quality coaches but Wells and Scott in particular are take a pretty major step up in responsibility and/or competition. I like Canales and LOVE Beard. IMO, this staff was assembled to run Jones' system, Jones' way. That imo will be his rise or fall.

11- HC-apprehension. You have to give Jones credit for how far he's brought the program. At the same time, he has revealed some potentially fatal flaws in his first 4 years. Hopefully he can get better. Hopefully he's now surrounded himself with a complimentary staff that is strong where he's weak. HOPEFULLY, he turns the corner this year and proves he can lead a team to perform above "reasonable" expectations... 9 or 10 regular season wins. Hopefully he won't win 8 again and reinforce his mediocrity... or worse.

So is "hope a dangerous thing"?
Click to expand...

Nope.. hope is what keeps us going.

I'm like you..yes we lost some "stars" from last year but I like this team better. I like the idea of QD as our QB for the simple fact I believe he can stretch the field with the vertical passing game which Dobbs seemed to struggled with at times. If he can read defenses better than Dobbs (which I think was a weakness of his) then the QB position could be even better than last year.

I feel JK is an upgrade over Hurd and if Chandler or another rb becomes a solid #2 then production should be fine.


I like the changes made to the staff.I think adding Warren and Hoke will allow the defense to finally gel and be solid.

The only question left is CBJ and his game day coaching. Hopefully he is one that learns from his mistakes.

Edit - If you don't have hope then all you have is despair, hopelessness, apathy. Hope is a great thing. It brings happiness with it when the possibilities of the upcoming season are talked about. Some just dwell on the negative. What could go wrong or has in the past. The past is not always a predictor of the future. It is just a measuring stick of what HAS happened. You can use it to guess what may happen but it's not reliable. The next 2 years will show if CBJ belongs or not. Saban didn't set the world on fire at Michigan St.. not that I'm comparing him to Saban, but every coach has a learning curve... Some are steeper than others, some could be called flat. Lol. I HOPE hr figures it out because he does a lot of other things really well.
 
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#175
#175
VolFreakJosh said:
Based on???
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Based on the fact that we have an average to below average coach and he's Jon Gruden. I know it's all what if's but I'd imagine a lot of players would want to play for Gruden, so he wouldn't have much trouble finding elite talent. He's also won a superbowl so I know he's a better X and O's guy than Butch Jones. He'd probably be more successful here than Butch has or will be. I'd bet on it.
 
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