The truth behind Joc Bruce

#226
#226
BigOrange15 said:
I can almost guarantee that Croom didn't just sucker punch him unprovoked. Which begs the question, what did Joc do to get punched? There are two sides to every story.
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Rumor a day ago that Joc had walked on the T a few times after being asked not to and someone blasted him. I guess it was Croom.

Edit: My bad I see LWS already addressed it but I wanted to make sure no one thought this was a case of bullying that the coaches allowed.
 
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#227
#227
Anyone who has any personal insight into
the program should look at Larry/LWS on how you should act. He brings info to this board that will not hurt the program, while giving us some cool insight that we normally wouldn't get. We have to many people on here who report every time someone decides to fart in the locker room. There are many things that we just shouldn't know and this is one of them!! We have to many football fans on this board who were not man enough to play football, and try and act like they understand what the locker room is like. Joc should have took the advice and learned from this instead of mouthing off and trying to act bad. I want guys to stand up for that T and to give a ****, I don't want it to be like when Dooley was here and our "leaders" like Bray didn't give two ****s what went on.

If Joc couldn't handle a locker room scuffle then he is going to have a very long road trying to make it in college/professional football.
 
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#229
#229
LWSVOL said:
I made a poor post.

there was a confrontation, I would not call it bullying.

the poster that said JB stepped on T is correct. JC confronted him about that and they had words. Ended up in a smack down.

I'm not certain of how much talk preceded the hit but JB probably should have respected an upper classman trying to advise him on protocol. My guess is that led to the physical actions.

Sorry for being so vague in my post.
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Striking a teammate because he stepped on a logo and mouthed off isn't self defense, it's gratuitous violence warranting dismissal if true.
 
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#230
#230
turambar85 said:
Jeez, this is a weird thread. The consensus (and it is nearly unanimous) is that Bruce deserved to get punched by someone twice his size for talking back and stepping on the T? We now officially believe that violence is the best reaction to disrespect?

Sure, we might say that it doesn't bode as poorly for Croom if the attack was provoked. Sure, we can say that Bruce wasn't exactly completely innocent. That makes a difference. But to sit around and praise Croom for clocking somebody is just insane.

And what is this whole "what happens in the locker room stays in the locker room" nonsense? It isn't Vegas. It isn't international waters. Do you think this holds for everything? If a player beat someone into a coma in the locker room? If there was legitimate persistent bullying? If they raped another player? Look, I get that a punch isn't as severe, but the "whatever happens in" mantra is absurd, and it is not that much less absurd just because the situation is less dramatic.

Unless Bruce punched him first, Croom screwed up. Croom deserved to be punished. And Croom sure as heck doesn't deserve to be praised, and lifted up as a hero of the program. Punching a much smaller freshman, somebody who was decent enough to take a blue shirt, and who seemed to love UT, is not heroic.
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And yet the coaches who actually know the situation saw fit not to punish Croom. I'm sure Coach Jones is just fine with upperclassmen beating the hell out of lower classmen for any reason whatsoever right?
 
#231
#231
Deputy Fife said:
Striking a teammate because he stepped on a logo and mouthed off isn't self defense, it's gratuitous violence warranting dismissal if true.
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Bruce was dismissed after whatever happened soooo? Prolly not in the cards. :whistling:
 
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#232
#232
DaddyChad said:
And yet the coaches who actually know the situation saw fit not to punish Croom. I'm sure Coach Jones is just fine with upperclassmen beating the hell out of lower classmen for any reason whatsoever right?
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Make it a new Maxim. :)
 
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#233
#233
Deputy Fife said:
Striking a teammate because he stepped on a logo and mouthed off isn't self defense, it's gratuitous violence warranting dismissal if true.
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Yep let's dismiss anyone that gets into a confrontation. Seems reasonable. How many times do we have fights on the practice field or in the lockerroom that you never hear of? Football is a sport of such eloquence and grace that there's just no room for gratuitous violence.
 
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#234
#234
Butch: "Jason (or Curt, or Josh, or whichever Team Leader it really was), that was a very bad thing you did, correcting that little punk for disrespecting our program and all we stand for here. Very bad indeed. And the punishment will be severe. Son, you're gonna run the steps. Every step between the front door of the dorm and your room, 100 times. That's 100 times up and down each and every step. You hear me?"

Croom (or Curt, or Josh, or whoever): "But coach, I live on the first floor of the dorm. There are no steps...."

Butch: "Don't you interrupt me, young man! Now get outta here! I expect your punishment to be done before you sleep tonight!"
 
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#235
#235
Eastknox865 said:
Joc Bruce was involved in what could be called bullying.Jason Croom hit Joc extremely hard in his jaw reason behind it I dont know. But after that he complained of having headaches and a lot of discomfort. He told his mother about what happened which leads me to believe he was afraid. The coaches knew about this but his mother didn't follow up with them about the attack. The kid was let down by his mother as well as the coaching staff they did not protect him. I understand upperclassmen pick on the new guy but this was more. After this altercation he was late for class several times and was suspended and well deserved. But I do believe Joc being afraid of Croom played a major role in this. The mother and the coaches failed this kid. I didn't make this up I grew up with his mom. This is non bias thread so please don't take it as if I'm throwing anyone under the bus. 100% true info
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I knew there was a whole lot more to the situation then him just being late for class. Thanks for the info.
 
#237
#237
VFL-82-JP said:
Butch: "Jason (or Curt, or Josh, or whichever Team Leader it really was), that was a very bad thing you did, correcting that little punk for disrespecting our program and all we stand for here. Very bad indeed. And the punishment will be severe. Son, you're gonna run the steps. Every step between the front door of the dorm and your room, 100 times. That's 100 times up and down each and every step. You hear me?"

Croom (or Curt, or Josh, or whoever): "But coach, I live on the first floor of the dorm. There are no steps...."

Butch: "Don't you interrupt me, young man! Now get outta here! I expect your punishment to be done before you sleep tonight!"
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You excluded the part where Butch asks if he's been eating right and asked about his mother. Why? WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO HIDE??? :aggressive:
 
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#239
#239
Deputy Fife said:
Striking a teammate because he stepped on a logo and mouthed off isn't self defense, it's gratuitous violence warranting dismissal if true.
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Let's all hold hands and sing nice songs, and love one another so much that rainbows come out of our ears! Then after that go out and play the most violent sport known to man, just make sure and hug the guy before you knock him on his ass.

If he stepped on the T, and was advised that you do NOT disrespect what they see as the symbol of all of their hard work, then yes he deserved to get put in his place.
 
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#240
#240
VFL-82-JP said:
Your son walks into your living room. Walks over to the corner near the TV, whips it out, and pees right there. In the corner of your living room.

You can:
(1) clock the kid, make him reconsider the wisdom of his disrespect;
(2) plead with him to stop;
(3) scold him in a very stern voice as he walks away;
(4) call the police and get the thug arrested, for...something.

Violence isn't always the answer. But sometimes a bit of it is better than any of the alternatives.

Plus, you gotta love a guy who stands up for Vols traditions and respect.
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Unless Bruce was peeing on Croom, utter nonsense. CBJ is the team Daddy and disciplinarian, not Croom.

Spend an hour reading about instances of people injured, maimed, and killed by a punch. Assaulting peers over slighting "traditions and respect" is still assault and has no place within the program or society.
 
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#242
#242
NCFisher said:
Unless Bruce was peeing on Croom, utter nonsense. CBJ is the team Daddy and disciplinarian, not Croom.

Spend an hour reading about instances of people injured, maimed, and killed by a punch. Assaulting peers over slighting "traditions and respect" is still assault and has no place within the program or society.
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NCFisher, I don't know what world you live in, what your environment is like. But it's not the world where hard, physical labor gets done by a bunch of young men who are all attitude and very little reflective contemplation.

Whether the military, which I'm most familiar with, or college and professional contact sports, a degree of physical interaction (pushing, shoving, wrestling, even fighting from time to time) is normal and healthy. Happens all the time. And actually helps the soldiers/players know where their boundaries are and that they're free to push hard as long as they're pushing in the same direction as the team.

If you're not a part of that kind of world, I understand your confusion. But it's not The Office.
 
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#243
#243
Are people just overlooking the fact that whoever hit Bruce is still with the team? Butch and the coaches handled the situation and only Bruce is gone. That says a lot about what happened.
 
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#244
#244
VFL-82-JP said:
NCFisher, I don't know what world you live in, what your environment is like. But it's not the world where hard, physical labor gets done by a bunch of young men who are all attitude and very little reflective contemplation.

Whether the military, which I'm most familiar with, or college and professional contact sports, a degree of physical interaction is normal and healthy. Happens all the time. And actually helps the soldiers/players know where their boundaries are and that they're free to push hard as long as they're pushing in the same direction as the team.

If you're not a part of that kind of world, I understand your confusion. But it's not The Office.
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Please, I'm not the one Winslowesquely - and grotesquely - conflating war and collegiate sports. There is indeed confusion on one end of this conversation.
 
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#247
#247
NCFisher said:
Please, I'm not the one Winslowesquely - and grotesquely - conflating war and collegiate sports. There is indeed confusion on one end of this conversation.
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I said nothing about war. I was talking about soldiers in training, right there at Fort Bragg or Fort Campbell. News flash: soldiers are athletes...athletes who fight instead of play. The analogy between soldier and athlete is far from perfect, and no athlete should ever try to compare himself with a soldier (as Winslow infamously did).

But in this respect, the analogy holds. Bunch of 18-24 year olds with a ton of energy, a hard, physical job to do, first-tier leaders who are not much older than the newest members, and not much time set aside for quiet reflection. That leads to a very different world than you're apparently versed in.

Rather than try to apply your beliefs and values to that world, maybe you ought to go live in it for a while first. Then come back and tell us what you think.
 
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#249
#249
NCFisher said:
The military trains soldiers for war. Collegiate sports train the team to play a game.

Sort of different...
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And yet very similar from a team perspective and from a physicality perspective.

Edit: I played college ball and was a ROTC in college. I can tell you field training and the bonds developed with my squad were very similar to my training and bonds developed with my team members. And yes we had fights on the field and un the locker room. We also won championships together.
 
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#250
#250
NCFisher said:
Please, I'm not the one Winslowesquely - and grotesquely - conflating war and collegiate sports. There is indeed confusion on one end of this conversation.
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It has little to do with war or soldiers.

I was a young guy once. In the circles I travelled it was not terribly uncommon for one young guy to strike another young guy. It doesn't make it right or wrong.

It's testosterone, the unwritten rules that exist in a culture, and the presence of alpha males and all of those go back to before we were walking upright, if you believe in evolution.

I will also add that's there is a difference between a flare up that results in flying fists, or in this case a singular fist, and systematic bullying. I understand why the former is a necessity but I absolutely find the latter to be abhorrent. If proof exists that Bruce was bullied then kick every offender off the team.
 
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