The ref screwed up

[PineyBluff Vol]

The offense did enough to win. This one is on the defense.

Thanks, at least someone watched the same game I did.

 

[roberthunter]

Nope. He signaled to wind the clock but then waved his arms to stop it to move the chains.

Florida vs. Tennessee, Sunday Rundown: The Gators pull off The Stunner in The Swamp - Alligator Army


The SEC needs to figure out its refereeing

Obligatory preface: Nothing the refs did in this game ultimately prevented Florida from winning it. And these refs were generally good, apart from the missed holds on both teams that just seem to be part of the game in 2015.

But: Florida should have gotten a fumble in the first half on a play that was not stopped for a review. Butch Jones should not have had to call a timeout to get a sideline tightrope act by Jake McGee reviewed in the second quarter. The refs should have made some sort of better indication to the crowd as to what on earth happened on the fumble by Dobbs in the second quarter. And a confusing signal that seemed to combine the "the clock is running" and "he's out of bounds" calls on Tennessee's final non-kick offensive play helped lead to some confusion that produced an illegal substitution penalty on the Vols.

 

[jbr82]

Offensive play calling also contributed. You are not going to win many games without a passing attack.

If defense makes some stops we win with a rushing attack. 27 pts should have been enough against this offense

 

[NEVolFan]

Read Clay Travis... nothing more to argue about. Time to move forward a bit.

 

[roberthunter]

Read Clay Travis... nothing more to argue about. Time to move forward a bit.

It's just one aspect of the game that I brought up.

Again, the refs didn't cost us this game. Heck, they tried to help us by inexplicably moving the ball towards the middle of the field for the second kick.

Also, not sure how the Clay Travis article is moving on. He is dead on, but it is squarely focused on the game yesterday.

 

[Jackcrevol]

Iiiii know ill get crucified for this. Dobbs passes are innacurate, granted hes running for his life. Grier looks like Grossman to me. Off balance and ****. I really think that the freshman might do some good things around tbe goal line passing wise because of his accuracy.

Grier was accurate when he had to be

 

[BenGrimm]

It was a poorly officiated game on both sides. We got some calls/no calls we shouldn't have and unfortunately the ones that went against us were late. Same thing in the OU game.

Sux.... Doesn't excuse blowing a 13pt lead or allowing five 4th down conversions.

 

[Jackcrevol]

It was a poorly officiated game on both sides. We got some calls/no calls we shouldn't have and unfortunately the ones that went against us were late. Same thing in the OU game.

Sux.... Doesn't excuse blowing a 13pt lead or allowing five 4th down conversions.

it wasnt the officials bra. if we continue to blame the officials for a ****ty ass '14 and '15 flarduh and decent, and i mean decent at best oklahoma team coming from behind to beat us...after we beat them for 3.5 quarters...i call it a pattern. and, being one if the bigger Butch fans admittedly it pains, it burns me to say.

he gotts to win, and i mean now. ill hang up and listen to your excuses.

 

[Volumnus 2011]

it wasnt the officials bra. if we continue to blame the officials for a ****ty ass '14 and '15 flarduh and decent, and i mean decent at best oklahoma team coming from behind to beat us...after we beat them for 3.5 quarters...i call it a pattern. and, being one if the bigger Butch fans admittedly it pains, it burns me to say.

he gotts to win, and i mean now. ill hang up and listen to your excuses.

He didn't use it as an excuse.

 

[BenGrimm]

He didn't use it as an excuse.

It's OK. Some people have trouble with reading comprehension.

 

[SobeVol]

27 on the board amigo:good!:, with a defense, that is enough!

Stop this reiteration!
One first down conversion instead of a three and out ( two up middle runs and a designed qb against a stacked box knowing we were gonna run)
Offensive play calling here could have won the game easier that putting all the pressure on an exhausted defense that just spent the last two drives in the field with essentially no rest.
Stop it!!!!

 

[volinSmyrna]

Add these to the fact that the officials bungled up the clock on our last drive, and I still think Wolf got out of bounds on that last play.

1) Failure to call the penalty for UF having 12 men on the field before the first kick. I know they called a timeout, but it doesn't matter. It still should be a penalty. They had 12 in the formation with no one actively trying to leave the field, and should have been called.

2) The illegal substitution should NOT have been called. I had to go back and watch as I just assumed we had 12 on the field, and I didn't really look at it or see it. We are lining up to spike the ball after they wind the clock from saying Wolf got the 1st down, but was in bounds.....you see Ellis sprint off the sideline only to be immediately waved back by the coaching staff. The rule says that the player has to get past the numbers to qualify as "participation".....he never made it past the numbers before turning around. Should not have been called.

There were coaching head scratchers and flat out crappy decisions, I give you....but if those two are called correctly (not calling illegal participation -5 yards, and illegal participation on UF +5 yards), we are kicking a 45 yard field goal....still not a gimme, but who knows.

I still say one of Butch's screw ups was instead of playing to spike it, he should have just let the clock go and call the last timeout, and kick the field goal.

 

[TCbodybuilder]

Add these to the fact that the officials bungled up the clock on our last drive, and I still think Wolf got out of bounds on that last play.

1) Failure to call the penalty for UF having 12 men on the field before the first kick. I know they called a timeout, but it doesn't matter. It still should be a penalty. They had 12 in the formation with no one actively trying to leave the field, and should have been called.

2) The illegal substitution should NOT have been called. I had to go back and watch as I just assumed we had 12 on the field, and I didn't really look at it or see it. We are lining up to spike the ball after they wind the clock from saying Wolf got the 1st down, but was in bounds.....you see Ellis sprint off the sideline only to be immediately waved back by the coaching staff. The rule says that the player has to get past the numbers to qualify as "participation".....he never made it past the numbers before turning around. Should not have been called.

There were coaching head scratchers and flat out crappy decisions, I give you....but if those two are called correctly (not calling illegal participation -5 yards, and illegal participation on UF +5 yards), we are kicking a 45 yard field goal....still not a gimme, but who knows.

I still say one of Butch's screw ups was instead of playing to spike it, he should have just let the clock go and call the last timeout, and kick the field goal.

On 1.) You are wrong.

 

[bamawriter]

Add these to the fact that the officials bungled up the clock on our last drive, and I still think Wolf got out of bounds on that last play.

It's a judgement call. Was Wolf going out under his own power or did the defender stop Wolf's progress and shove him out? One can disagree with the official, but watching the play I think one can see why the official called what he did.

1) Failure to call the penalty for UF having 12 men on the field before the first kick. I know they called a timeout, but it doesn't matter. It still should be a penalty. They had 12 in the formation with no one actively trying to leave the field, and should have been called.

Like it or not, the standard has always been that the defense can be saved by a TO while the offense can't. It's one of the few rules in football that gives the defense an advantage over the offense.

2) The illegal substitution should NOT have been called. I had to go back and watch as I just assumed we had 12 on the field, and I didn't really look at it or see it. We are lining up to spike the ball after they wind the clock from saying Wolf got the 1st down, but was in bounds.....you see Ellis sprint off the sideline only to be immediately waved back by the coaching staff. The rule says that the player has to get past the numbers to qualify as "participation".....he never made it past the numbers before turning around. Should not have been called.

You're confusing being in the formation with being set. A player has to get inside the number and be set for a second to be considered "set". But if the offense is on the ball, and a 12th player comes off the sideline, he's in the formation and it's a penalty. Whether or not he gets set is irrelevant. Blame the coaches for that one.

 

[IPleadInsanity]

He could not have made the field goal with 5 tries from over 40 yards out. Pretty amazing since he is kicking the ball so well on kick offs, booming them out of the end zone.

 

[allvol21]

Plenty of people to point blame at. Another embarrassing and now becoming typical with the Vols. Butch will lose this team if he doesn't get a big win soon.

This is what scares me the most.

I thought our players really laid it on the line Saturday. They seemed to play with just a little more extra effort (especially hurd and dobbs). This is not a hit on our effort in any other games. I just thought you could feel how bad our players wanted it, just to be once again let down. Every loss from this point on will make it harder and harder to keep the players bought in.

 

[volberry]

Add these to the fact that the officials bungled up the clock on our last drive, and I still think Wolf got out of bounds on that last play.

1) Failure to call the penalty for UF having 12 men on the field before the first kick. I know they called a timeout, but it doesn't matter. It still should be a penalty. They had 12 in the formation with no one actively trying to leave the field, and should have been called.

2) The illegal substitution should NOT have been called. I had to go back and watch as I just assumed we had 12 on the field, and I didn't really look at it or see it. We are lining up to spike the ball after they wind the clock from saying Wolf got the 1st down, but was in bounds.....you see Ellis sprint off the sideline only to be immediately waved back by the coaching staff. The rule says that the player has to get past the numbers to qualify as "participation".....he never made it past the numbers before turning around. Should not have been called.

There were coaching head scratchers and flat out crappy decisions, I give you....but if those two are called correctly (not calling illegal participation -5 yards, and illegal participation on UF +5 yards), we are kicking a 45 yard field goal....still not a gimme, but who knows.

I still say one of Butch's screw ups was instead of playing to spike it, he should have just let the clock go and call the last timeout, and kick the field goal.

if the just call to and kick then it's 2004 all over again. I thought that's what would happen. He messed the entire game up with all that unecessary stuff.

 

[VolsSportsFan]

It's a judgement call. Was Wolf going out under his own power or did the defender stop Wolf's progress and shove him out? One can disagree with the official, but watching the play I think one can see why the official called what he did.



Like it or not, the standard has always been that the defense can be saved by a TO while the offense can't. It's one of the few rules in football that gives the defense an advantage over the offense.



You're confusing being in the formation with being set. A player has to get inside the number and be set for a second to be considered "set". But if the offense is on the ball, and a 12th player comes off the sideline, he's in the formation and it's a penalty. Whether or not he gets set is irrelevant. Blame the coaches for that one.

This. That's why I asked in another thread of a time where a play has been blown dead when the defense has 12 men on the field before the snap. I've never, ever seen it happen.

 

[lawgator1]

As to the 12 men on the field theory, that seems to have been debunked, as has been the running of the clock. The apparent change in placement of the ball, I have read a bit over on Gator forums and also some head scratching there, but there are apparently some rules governing placement after time outs and penalties, no one is quite sure what the ref thinking might have been on that.

Bottom line is that Tennessee had multiple opportunities to put the game away, and they do not need to be dwelt on here, again. Plus, Florida also had its share of bad calls go against them. The catch and fumble in the first quarter, in particular comes to mind.

We can each mutually complain about officiating we think could have been better, but in the end I think both teams can look back and count themselves lucky in spots, unlucky in others.

 

[GAVol]

And a confusing signal that seemed to combine the "the clock is running" and "he's out of bounds" calls on Tennessee's final non-kick offensive play helped lead to some confusion that produced an illegal substitution penalty on the Vols.

I disagree with calling the play dead in bounds, but the ref signalled correctly. He wound the clock to signal that he was down in bounds and then signaled to stop the clock so the chains could move. He even explained it to Butch a few seconds later.

The ridiculous part was calling it a force out when Wolfe clearly dove and landed out of bounds.

 

[lawgator1]

I disagree with calling the play dead in bounds, but the ref signalled correctly. He wound the clock to signal that he was down in bounds and then signaled to stop the clock so the chains could move. He even explained it to Butch a few seconds later.

The ridiculous part was calling it a force out when Wolfe clearly dove and landed out of bounds.

The lack of urgency on the UT sidelines seemed odd. Play calls taking too much time to get sent in, in particular. I wonder if they were just in disbelief at the situation, or that they just were not prepared ahead of time to get into hurry up mode.

 

[GAVol]

As to the 12 men on the field theory, that seems to have been debunked,.

It happened. There were 12 in formation with nobody running off the field for several seconds before the timeout got called. By definition, that's illegal substitution prior to the snap.

Would 5 yards have mattered? Probably not. But still, they got away with one.

 

[lawgator1]

It happened. There were 12 in formation with nobody running off the field for several seconds before the timeout got called. By definition, that's illegal substitution prior to the snap.

Would 5 yards have mattered? Probably not. But still, they got away with one.

I thought I read here that this is typically not called on the defense until the snap, and that as long as the defense calls t/o prior to then, it is not called. I do have a vague recollection of seeing one of the refs under the goal posts appear to be counting, which would be counting the defense. Mcelwain has said it is why he called the t/o. So we were equally as discombobulated at the end as you guys were.

 

[VolsSportsFan]

It happened. There were 12 in formation with nobody running off the field for several seconds before the timeout got called. By definition, that's illegal substitution prior to the snap.

Would 5 yards have mattered? Probably not. But still, they got away with one.

By definition, maybe. But it's a judgement call and as I've said, I've never seen it called like some are saying it should have been.

 

[GAVol]

The lack of urgency on the UT sidelines seemed odd. Play calls taking too much time to get sent in, in particular. I wonder if they were just in disbelief at the situation, or that they just were not prepared ahead of time to get into hurry up mode.

It was weird. You can't call the drive a failure because they did get a FG attempt out of it, but nothing about it looked good.