The rebuild

#1
99gator

99gator

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#1
Just some food for thought…..

There have not been a lot of coaching changes over the years at Tennessee. From 1964 to 2008, Tennessee had 4 head coaches. Since 2009, they have had 4 head coaches.

Dickey had a quick turnaround from the previous regime. Year 1 was a rebuild, but after that, he won. Battle won with what he inherited, then it declined (a poor man’s Larry Coker). Then, came Johnny. It took Johnny a long time to get it going. When I say long time, I mean that a coach today would have been fired twice with the leash he was given. And of course, Phil won with what he inherited and ran with it.

Now, I don’t know how much different things were in 1964 vs. 1977, but maybe there are some on the board who do.

The question I have is….is 4 to 5 years a reasonable amount of time to make the turnaround you’re looking for? Is a Johnny Majors’ rebuild vs. a Doug Dickey rebuild what has to take place? If in year 4, 5, Tennessee is winning 9 games, but no SEC Title, no SEC East, a poor record vs. Bama, Florida, and Georgia…..do you abandon ship or give Pruitt more time?

There are all kinds of jokes about “year 0”, but there was a certain logic to that when Dooley said it and there may be more logic to it now. Pruitt did become head coach after arguably Tennessee’s worst season ever. First time losing 8. First time without a conference win. Does that warrant more time?

Anyway, thought it might be worth posting, because after thinking about it, I’m not sure getting to Atlanta by year 4 is a realistic goal. And no, I’m not in the “Tennessee is done” crowd.

And for those who say....easy for you to say....look what Mullen did. Florida didn't beat Georgia. Didn't win the East. Didn't win the SEC. Didn't play Bama (and Bama is not a rival), so he wont have to answer "when are you going to beat Bama" questions. As good a year as Florida had and as happy as I am, I don't know exactly when Florida is winning the East or the SEC either.
 
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#3
#3
99gator said:
Just some food for thought…..

There have not been a lot of coaching changes over the years at Tennessee. Blah Blah Blah Blah...... Then, came Johnny. It took Johnny a long time ...............Blah Blah Blah Blah.............

Anyway, thought it might be worth posting, because after thinking about it, I’m not sure getting to Atlanta by year 4 is a realistic goal. And no, I’m not in the “Tennessee is done” crowd.

And for those who say...BLAH BLAH BLAH and BLAH............ I don't know exactly when Florida is winning the East or the SEC either.
Click to expand...

Get outta my yard you scaly backed Gecko !

WeirdDisastrousHarvestmouse-size_restricted.gif
 
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#4
#4
4-5 years means Pruitt is not a very good coach at all. Butch went 9-4 in year 3. It’s been so long at this point, I’ve resigned to the fact that UT is never going to be as good as the 90s again, ever. I think 9-3 type seasons are this program’s ceiling going forward. Snake bit.
 
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#5
#5
What’s up 99?!!!

My opinion is probably not going to be a popular one. We don’t have a lot of NFL type talent on the roster. Maybe we are bringing some in, I don’t follow it much, but currently, on the offensive side of the ball, at the positions that matter, we are not close.

Pruitt just needs to make a little progress over time for me to be happy. Until we have significant improvement in the O line, we won’t be able to score enough points, control time of possession, etc...this OC hire would be a good start, I don’t think hiring from within will sit well, but it might be his only choice, which may say volumes about where the program is and about how he is selling it to prospective assistants.

Time will tell.
 
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#6
#6
If we dont have a solid team in 5 years he isnt good. But we should see drastic difference in year 2. Doesnt mean it translates to win all the sudden, but if we dont look competent next season its time for concern.
 
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#8
#8
JP needs time, and incremental success. This will bolster recruiting, by getting into bowl games, and being competitive in exciting games. Being competitive against Bama is pretty far off. But, being competitive in the East is much more doable, in the near future. 5-7 years to respectability. But, that is going from a talent perspective. Bad coaching decisions will hasten any coach's demise. If the coaching is solid, and the team is fundamentally disciplined and sound, in all phases, I'd give him 5-7 years. But, if all of that happens, many shortcomings will take care of themselves.
How tolerant are we willing to be regarding bad coaching decisions? Which are inevitable, with such an inexperienced head coach.
Also, the SEC is the toughest conference, with the best players and coaches. So, even if your gameplan is sound, and your players execute the gameplan, you may still lose.
 
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#9
#9
It do if 23 5 to7 gaterd you hate no gonna wait time him give, Fulmer Christian!!!!! I'm attempting to communicate in Volnationese; give me time to get the hang of it.
 
#10
#10
Dickey won quickly because of Dewey Warren and others. Moving to the radical T formation allowed better recruits. Steve Spurrier and Steve Sloan left Tennessee because they were QBs and uninterested in being TBs. Battle was just not Majors and the fans wanted Majors. He was hamstrung.
GO BIG ORANGE!
 
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#11
#11
OrangeByBirth said:
Battle was just not Majors and the fans wanted Majors. He was hamstrung.
GO BIG ORANGE!
Click to expand...

I don’t agree with this. Battle inherited great talent from Dickey and won 11, 10, 10 in his first three seasons. He couldn’t sustain it because he and his staff didn’t recruit well enough and didn’t leave Majors a lot of talent.

It’s kind of where we are now. Anyone that grew up watching Peyton, Al, Stanley, Condridge, and those offensive/defensive lines can see it plain as day. Anybody who watches Bama and Clemson can see it plain as day.

When I think about it like that, a little historical context, Pruitt probably did better than he should have this past season.
 
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#13
#13
99gator said:
Just some food for thought…..

There have not been a lot of coaching changes over the years at Tennessee. From 1964 to 2008, Tennessee had 4 head coaches. Since 2009, they have had 4 head coaches.

Dickey had a quick turnaround from the previous regime. Year 1 was a rebuild, but after that, he won. Battle won with what he inherited, then it declined (a poor man’s Larry Coker). Then, came Johnny. It took Johnny a long time to get it going. When I say long time, I mean that a coach today would have been fired twice with the leash he was given. And of course, Phil won with what he inherited and ran with it.

Now, I don’t know how much different things were in 1964 vs. 1977, but maybe there are some on the board who do.

The question I have is….is 4 to 5 years a reasonable amount of time to make the turnaround you’re looking for? Is a Johnny Majors’ rebuild vs. a Doug Dickey rebuild what has to take place? If in year 4, 5, Tennessee is winning 9 games, but no SEC Title, no SEC East, a poor record vs. Bama, Florida, and Georgia…..do you abandon ship or give Pruitt more time?

There are all kinds of jokes about “year 0”, but there was a certain logic to that when Dooley said it and there may be more logic to it now. Pruitt did become head coach after arguably Tennessee’s worst season ever. First time losing 8. First time without a conference win. Does that warrant more time?

Anyway, thought it might be worth posting, because after thinking about it, I’m not sure getting to Atlanta by year 4 is a realistic goal. And no, I’m not in the “Tennessee is done” crowd.

And for those who say....easy for you to say....look what Mullen did. Florida didn't beat Georgia. Didn't win the East. Didn't win the SEC. Didn't play Bama (and Bama is not a rival), so he wont have to answer "when are you going to beat Bama" questions. As good a year as Florida had and as happy as I am, I don't know exactly when Florida is winning the East or the SEC either.
Click to expand...
You guys went 4-7 last year we went 4-8, y’all beat us on a last second Hail Mary at your house. We both play in the sec east and both had new head coaches at the helm this year, both had roughly the same 4 year recruiting average, if there is a more comparable group to each other than these two I’d like to see it. You guys finished the year with 11 wins and a top 10 ranking, we finished the year looking like the damn bad news bears and only slightly improved our overall record while getting destroyed a lot more often. People keep saying you can’t compare the two but my question is why not? They should be very comparable.
 
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#16
#16
We had roster deficiencies but our head coach made no effort to play in a way that mitigated our weaknesses. CJP did go for it on 4th a lot, which was kind of fun and made it feel like we were trying to win some games. Too me, comparing Mullen to CJP is like comparing a well known artist to a house painter. They both paint stuff and that's where the similarities end.
 
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#20
#20
Lots of peop
99gator said:
Just some food for thought…..

There have not been a lot of coaching changes over the years at Tennessee. From 1964 to 2008, Tennessee had 4 head coaches. Since 2009, they have had 4 head coaches.

Dickey had a quick turnaround from the previous regime. Year 1 was a rebuild, but after that, he won. Battle won with what he inherited, then it declined (a poor man’s Larry Coker). Then, came Johnny. It took Johnny a long time to get it going. When I say long time, I mean that a coach today would have been fired twice with the leash he was given. And of course, Phil won with what he inherited and ran with it.

Now, I don’t know how much different things were in 1964 vs. 1977, but maybe there are some on the board who do.

The question I have is….is 4 to 5 years a reasonable amount of time to make the turnaround you’re looking for? Is a Johnny Majors’ rebuild vs. a Doug Dickey rebuild what has to take place? If in year 4, 5, Tennessee is winning 9 games, but no SEC Title, no SEC East, a poor record vs. Bama, Florida, and Georgia…..do you abandon ship or give Pruitt more time?

There are all kinds of jokes about “year 0”, but there was a certain logic to that when Dooley said it and there may be more logic to it now. Pruitt did become head coach after arguably Tennessee’s worst season ever. First time losing 8. First time without a conference win. Does that warrant more time?

Anyway, thought it might be worth posting, because after thinking about it, I’m not sure getting to Atlanta by year 4 is a realistic goal. And no, I’m not in the “Tennessee is done” crowd.

And for those who say....easy for you to say....look what Mullen did. Florida didn't beat Georgia. Didn't win the East. Didn't win the SEC. Didn't play Bama (and Bama is not a rival), so he wont have to answer "when are you going to beat Bama" questions. As good a year as Florida had and as happy as I am, I don't know exactly when Florida is winning the East or the SEC either.
Click to expand...

Lots of people excited about Gator's season

Florida football vs. Missouri score, takeaways: Time for a change after Gators embarrassed on homecoming



mark.jpg
 
#21
#21
The limit of 25 signees each year will delay how quickly CJP and crew can turn it around thru recruiting. The ONLY way to accelerate the process is to hit on your JC players with recruits of equal talent to Tier 1 or Tier 2 teams.

SEC roster/talent rankings are--IMO-- going to continue this way:

Tier 1. BAMA and UGA. (I think aTm will be the next team to be on this level)
Tier 2. LSU, aTm, Fla, Aub
Tier 3. Mizzou, MSU, and USCe. (KY was the statistical outlier this year--but they will lose most of their talent)

When we cannot compete with the likes of Vandy we know that the talent gap between UT and these programs over the past 2 years has been significant.
Only the ignorant and irrational fail to see the obvious talent discrepancies in our program at every position.

Therefore, to answer your question....

1. We only close the talent gap thru recruiting. Winning games that we shouldn't win helps recruiting. We won 2 we had no business winning in 2018 based solely on talent, and lost 1 (USCe) where the talent gap was much smaller except for a few skill positions.

2. You mentioned 9 win seasons in year 4 and 5--I assume that means a 9-3 regular season with no SEC East title. That would put us at 5-3 in the SEC.
I assume those losses are to Bama, UGa, and another Tier 2 or 3 team.

I think that those are reasonable expectations for year 4 and 5 with the added caveat that none of the 3 teams from the SEC beat us by more than 10 points.

3. Year 4 will give CJP and crew 3 recruiting classes plus what they could scramble to sign before year 1. That means the team would consist solely of CJP's recruits. I would hope that our year 4 team would be VERY competitive with BAMA and be very close to beating everyone else.

4. I would HOPE that CJP's year 5 team would win the SEC East--with a 6-2 or 7-1 SEC record.

5. Ultimately I would hope that CJP is THE COACH who can lead us to consistent 9 win seasons--which equates to a 75% winning record. Of course, I would expect to win the SEC championship at least once every 3 or 4 years.

Johnny Majors would've gotten us to the level that CPF did IF he could've recruited better QBs after the special '85 Sugar Vols.
But Andy Kelly was the best he could get between '85 until Heath Shuler took over.

So, to me, CJP and crew will get good OL and DL, LBs, etc...etc...etc... But they will have to get an ELITE QB to get the VOLS to Tier 1.
 
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#23
#23
99gator said:
Just some food for thought…..

There have not been a lot of coaching changes over the years at Tennessee. From 1964 to 2008, Tennessee had 4 head coaches. Since 2009, they have had 4 head coaches.

Dickey had a quick turnaround from the previous regime. Year 1 was a rebuild, but after that, he won. Battle won with what he inherited, then it declined (a poor man’s Larry Coker). Then, came Johnny. It took Johnny a long time to get it going. When I say long time, I mean that a coach today would have been fired twice with the leash he was given. And of course, Phil won with what he inherited and ran with it.

Now, I don’t know how much different things were in 1964 vs. 1977, but maybe there are some on the board who do.

The question I have is….is 4 to 5 years a reasonable amount of time to make the turnaround you’re looking for? Is a Johnny Majors’ rebuild vs. a Doug Dickey rebuild what has to take place? If in year 4, 5, Tennessee is winning 9 games, but no SEC Title, no SEC East, a poor record vs. Bama, Florida, and Georgia…..do you abandon ship or give Pruitt more time?

There are all kinds of jokes about “year 0”, but there was a certain logic to that when Dooley said it and there may be more logic to it now. Pruitt did become head coach after arguably Tennessee’s worst season ever. First time losing 8. First time without a conference win. Does that warrant more time?

Anyway, thought it might be worth posting, because after thinking about it, I’m not sure getting to Atlanta by year 4 is a realistic goal. And no, I’m not in the “Tennessee is done” crowd.

And for those who say....easy for you to say....look what Mullen did. Florida didn't beat Georgia. Didn't win the East. Didn't win the SEC. Didn't play Bama (and Bama is not a rival), so he wont have to answer "when are you going to beat Bama" questions. As good a year as Florida had and as happy as I am, I don't know exactly when Florida is winning the East or the SEC either.
Click to expand...
I think Butch had a decent resume here in his first 4 years, if not for the 4-8 season and losing out on the sugar bowl, beating Florida and Georgia with potential to win the east if it weren’t for the LSU blunder, 5-0 start in 2016, I was a pretty content UT fan. Realizing a coach will have his ups and downs. 5-7, 7-6, 9-4, 9-4 with 3 bowl wins I was happy with (minus the sugar bowl bid). Brighter football minds saw the 4-8 buzz saw coming but I didn’t.

So consistent improvement is what I’m looking for and it has to show in wins and losses. If at any point we miss another bowl bid during his tenure here, I still give him 4 years total, but really start to re evaluate and look what’s out there. JMO
 
#24
#24
Alex10 said:
You guys went 4-7 last year we went 4-8, y’all beat us on a last second Hail Mary at your house. We both play in the sec east and both had new head coaches at the helm this year, both had roughly the same 4 year recruiting average, if there is a more comparable group to each other than these two I’d like to see it. You guys finished the year with 11 wins and a top 10 ranking, we finished the year looking like the damn bad news bears and only slightly improved our overall record while getting destroyed a lot more often. People keep saying you can’t compare the two but my question is why not? They should be very comparable.
Click to expand...

You can compare the two, and this whole site was comparing the two all off season. Then the football actually started, we were completely embarrassed, so it’s not a fair comparison anymore.
 
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#25
#25
Alex10 said:
You guys went 4-7 last year we went 4-8, y’all beat us on a last second Hail Mary at your house. We both play in the sec east and both had new head coaches at the helm this year, both had roughly the same 4 year recruiting average, if there is a more comparable group to each other than these two I’d like to see it. You guys finished the year with 11 wins and a top 10 ranking, we finished the year looking like the damn bad news bears and only slightly improved our overall record while getting destroyed a lot more often. People keep saying you can’t compare the two but my question is why not? They should be very comparable.
Click to expand...
We dont like to compare the two because we dont like the result of the comparison.
 
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