The reality of our program

#51
#51
If I'm around a television I'll watch, but I haven't even looked at time and channel. I'm not mad, and I'm not calling for the coach to be fired. I'm just tired of spending the only thing I truly own, my time, watching a mediocre to bad product and getting no excitement or joy from it. I've been invited to a few games this year with great seats, great accommodations and no cost other than gas and time. I won't be attending. Hopefully the coach can field a competitive team in a few years while I still care.
Damn…it’s sad isn’t? I used to drive up from Mount Juliet 3-4 times a year whether I had tickets or not. Now, I’m like you.
I don’t even have a TN hat or a tshirt right now.
 
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#52
#52
There's a difference between giving someone time to rebuild the talent level and time to prove they can coach.

At this point, there is no use judging HCJH or the staff, because the overall talent level is not there. (At least, that's what many on this board are saying.)

So, for this year, the only thing — if anything — that it is fair to judge Heupel et al on is whether there is improvement from week to week on the things they can improve via coaching. The question for this year, and probably next, is simply "Does it look like they know how to coach?" That includes coaching up the skills, game planning, and leadership/culture. If those three items look good, then that's a good grade for this year and next. So, they get the time they have earned.

Over time, you can also assess whether they can recruit effectively, and whether their recruiting combined with their coaching abilities (skills, game planning, leadership/culture) are improving the overall program. If all of that checks out, then you keep going with them.

Some day I may take the time to build out the "coach grading rubric" that I have in my head. But even if/when I do, one of the grades for each part of the rubric will be "too soon to tell." At this point in Year One, I'd say most of that imaginary rubric would be filled in with "too soon to tell."

As a coach you still have to show that you are capable of winning games that you are in a position to win; like Pitt.

Heupel can and will be judged on whether or not he wins those games, and there's no legitimate reason to wait till X number of seasons have passed before doing so.
 
#54
#54
I’m certainly on board with Heupel. I’m hopeful he can get things rolling, improve the program, and develop the talent.

At this point I don’t think I have had anything negative to say about him. I simply need to give him a chance………heck he was a better hire than several of the “names” I was thinking about.

However “if” at some point it fails…….”if” it all starts to fall apart……if the wheels come off……..there is NO need on earth to keep a coach who cannot get it done……..just to delay the inevitable………simply because “he needs more time.”

Heck all of them can use more time. If it don’t work……if it ain’t working……cut your losses and move on.

If it ain’t broke by all means don’t fix it…….if it’s broke……if it stays broke, if the “fixer” can’t fix it……..by all means try something…..anything different.

it was extremely easy to see Pruitt “didn’t have it.” He left Tennessee in a worse wreak than he found it…….had he stayed longer……if could have…….and probably would have become even worse.


Sure…..by all means give a coach time. IF it is justified. Not simply because……”well we have to.”
Don’t take this personally but I can’t read your post. I tried but it literally hurts my eyes with all the extended ellipses.
 
#55
#55
Don’t take this personally but I can’t read your post. I tried but it literally hurts my eyes with all the extended ellipses.

You read it as if we were talking…..makes it easier.

Also makes it more understandable (usually) and personable.

Try by not looking at it as a whole……..rather just one section at a time.
 
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#56
#56
I’m not sure when I last logged in to comment last, but a couple of observations.

First, when reading these threads you wouldn’t know if it is 2013 or 2021. Replace BJ or DD with CJH and the comments are the same. Some too quick to abandon the new coach and some willing to let us wallow in mediocrity for a decade hoping the coach finally has enough “time”. Tennessee football has been stuck in Groundhog Day for what seems like forever. Dooley and Butch both had 2-3 moments that defined them and had they broke the other way, who knows where we might be? If there weren’t 13 men on the field at LSU or if Wilcox stayed in 2012, where might we be? If Butch wins those FL games instead of giving them away, gets that 4th down stop at Tuscaloosa, or if Dobbs doesn’t throw that OT pick in College Station, where would we be? Those were potential program changing moments that passed us by. Pruitt never even sniffed a program changing moment and frankly I think he was genuinely dumb. Like seriously, just not intelligent in general. Almost feel like he waa trying to get fired. It’s the only explanation for continuing to send JG out there game after game.

All that to say, CJH has opportunities before him that can be the program changing moment. Upsetting Florida year 1 and getting that monkey off his back immediately would buy him both leeway with the fans and attention from recruits. Not getting boat raced is priority one, but winning on Saturday would be monumental for a new UT coach. Win that game and the season is already a success. I don’t expect a win, but I do (or will) by kickoff think it’s possible.

I am ok with the progress so far. For one, Pruitt couldn’t score 50 in a scrimmage. We do show potential to put up points. Secondly, the defense actually looks like they have practiced. They are mostly in the right spots and aren’t still trying to get into position when the ball is snapped. They look prepared and well coached on both sides of the ball with the exception of the lack of discipline displayed by the veterans. Just based off the 1st 3 games, I feel better about this hire than any of the past 3. That could all go out the window by 8pm Saturday, but for now, I’m not discouraged.

And on a random note because I haven’t posted in so long, how in the world did Phil get off so easy after the sh#t show he orchestrated with Pruitt? He should have been run out of town and his street renamed Loser Lane. He’s as responsible for that debacle as Pruitt. Pruitt should have been fired just for wearing that neck gator as a head scarf last year. Yes I mean it. Looking special on the sideline is a program killer. Appearances matter.
 
#57
#57
Tennessee is still committing dumb penalties. We still can’t seem to find a QB, or at least one that can avoid overthrowing wide open receivers downfield by 10 yards. We still find new and creative ways to lose winnable games (that Pitt loss looks even worse by comparison after their performance in week 3). So far, this is the same old Tennessee team.

The problem isn’t the fans. It’s the Athletic Department. It’s the coaching staff. It’s the players. Until those three get themselves right, this ain’t turning around any time soon.

After being a Vol fan for more than 40 years, the Tennessee game was barely a blip on my radar this past Saturday. Admitting that to be the case saddens me. I’ll end up tuning in for the Florida game this coming weekend just because I can’t help myself, but there is no hope left in me. It’s gonna take actual results - NOT more inexcusable losses or “moral victories” - to make me optimistic again.
 
#58
#58
I just got hit with a hard reality about our program after reading this Tampa Bay Times article about Norvell and FSU: If you want Mike Norvell out, remember: FSU could become another Tennessee

Here is the Title:

If you want Mike Norvell out, remember: FSU football could become another Tennessee
The Vols’ coaching turnover has helped turn the program from a national power to a punching bag. That’s the risk FSU faces.

We are now a cautionary tale to the rest of the country. Painful, but true.
 
#59
#59
Exact same threads were started about Pruitt, Butch, and Dooley more times that could be counted. Were they all wrong and NOW we have the guy despite the same evidence to the contrary or were any one of those guys going to make it if they just had more time?
What "same" evidence are you talking about?

Heupel may fail but it won't be because...
.... he was essentially lazy and hopeless and distant like Dooley. All indications are that he's energetic, perpetually hopeful and positive, and tries to foster a closeness with the team.
.... or like Jones who was an empty suit, a used car salesman, who thought coaching was cliches... was foolish enough to think he was smart enough to revolutionize SEC offense with his "system" and who didn't know the first thing about developing players physically or mentally. He was absolutely awful on game day. By all accounts, Heupel is genuine and seems to realize his own limitations and the need to always evolve the "system". We will see if he can develop players well or outcoach anyone.... but either way if he's fired it won't be for the same reasons as Jones.

.... Pruitt? There couldn't be two more polar opposite approaches to teams, leadership, and football than Heupel and Pruitt. Pruitt in relating to players is negative and critical. Heupel is positive and tries to build. Heupel wants to play aggressive even if they make mistakes. Pruitt is conservative and stuck in the 90's idea of playing low risk O and winning games with D.

Much has been made of the QB's and comparisons have been made between Milton and JG. Heupel may stick with Milton too long but the comparison ends there. JG was the hyper-conservative choice for most of his career. Up until his last handful of games at UT, one of his main "positives" was that he didn't turn the ball over. He would always choose the low risk option. Milton is failing because he's launching it down field... and not hitting the throws. He's already taken risks with the ball that JG would have never been able to pull the trigger on.

So again... what is that "same" evidence? I'm not saying he will succeed but UT isn't insanely trying the same kind of coach this time from a style, personality, or leadership standpoint.
 
#60
#60
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#61
#61
I don't disagree with the OP concerning the need for patience and the necessity of stopping the revolving door of head coaches. However, I'm curious what it is that Heupel has done so far that makes anyone think he is the long-term answer? I'm not saying he isn't, but at this point I don't feel any differently about him that I did about Kiffin/Dooley/Butch/Pruitt 3 games into their first seasons.

For one thing they play hard, certainly an improvement over many of our recent teams.
 
#63
#63
No need to lower expectations. There’s got to be a better way of handling ourselves when expectations aren’t met. I know that this site is a great place for fans to blow off steam, but let’s show some dignity.

Fair weather fans: Fans that drift away during the tough times. I’m not judging anyone, just defining Fair weather fans. Judge yourself.

We lost to Pitt. JH isn’t the guy(I’m not aware of a single person that feels this way.).

We lost to Pitt. JH needs more time to get his roster in place, then he will be successful.

Two opposite opinions, one is right while the other is wrong.

JH seems to have solid football knowledge, I think he should get more time.

Today is a good day to wear Tennessee Orange.
 
#64
#64
This isn't entirely true. It's not just Saban had early success. It can, and is being done by others.

Kiffin is doing it in year 2. They look quite formidable. We will see Oct 2 how formidable they are but the program is far from turned around nor do they have the tradition and expectations we do.
Pittman is doing it. Arkansas may have been in worst position than us. He is 6-7 as Ark HC, I would hardly call beating a unproven Texas team turning the corner
Ed Orgeron won a freaking National Championship quickly. He won a Natty with a incredible talented roster he inherited most of including a Heisman winning QB. What is his record since that season he is 7-6
Jimbo Fisher hasn't had a problem fielding a competent team. I think if you ask any Texas A&M fan if they feel like they got their $90 million worth so far not many would say yes. 17-8 in the SEC and 29-10 over all, maybe this is their year, I would not feel comfortable making that wager myself.
Mullen is still Mullen. Rolling along just fine. Is he though, he has has his share of trouble on and off the field at Florida. He is 19-8 in the SEC East 31-10 overall, not bad I would def settle for that but he has a talent rich state to recruit from.
Harsin at Auburn, in his first year with the jury still out, just went to Happy Valley vs. top ten Penn St. and could have won the game easily, and gave them all they wanted in a hostile environment in prime time.
 
#65
#65
Ok but you guarantee nothing gets better firing a coach every year either. That’s where at least at some patience has to come into play.
Never in the history of University of Tennessee football has a fan called a coach or set up a meeting to let them know that they are being released. Never in the history of University of Tennessee football has there been head coach's "fired every other year" either. To put this decade of dysfunction on the fans is like pissing in the ocean and yelling high tide.

Which coach should Tennessee have given more time to?
 
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#66
#66
Never in the history of University of Tennessee football has a fan called a coach or set up a meeting to let them know that they are being released. Never in the history of University of Tennessee football has there been head coach's "fired every other year" either. To put this decade of dysfunction on the fans is like pissing in the ocean and yelling high tide.

Which coach should Tennessee have given more time to?
LOL. What are you yapping about? It certainly isn’t in response to what I posted. You must’ve replied to the wrong one because I never blamed anything on the fan base. I also never said anything about a fan firing anyone. Every year is this thing called hyperbole. Big word, I know, just look it up, take a chill pill, and all will be ok.

All I was saying is that the fans already declaring Heupel isn’t the guy are being ridiculous. He’s coached 3 games here. There’s no way to know what we have, good or bad. If we have a bad reputation among coaches it will be even harder to attract good ones. That’s all. Don’t make more out of it than need be.
 
#67
#67
6
I don't disagree with the OP concerning the need for patience and the necessity of stopping the revolving door of head coaches. However, I'm curious what it is that Heupel has done so far that makes anyone think he is the long-term answer? I'm not saying he isn't, but at this point I don't feel any differently about him that I did about Kiffin/Dooley/Butch/Pruitt 3 games into their first seasons.[/QUO

What has he done to think he's not the answer?
 
#68
#68
Looking at our roster I don’t think we can even begin to judge CJH till at least 3 or 4 games in to next season
 
#69
#69
All that to say, CJH has opportunities before him that can be the program changing moment. Upsetting Florida year 1 and getting that monkey off his back immediately would buy him both leeway with the fans and attention from recruits. Not getting boat raced is priority one, but winning on Saturday would be monumental for a new UT coach. Win that game and the season is already a success. I don’t expect a win, but I do (or will) by kickoff think it’s possible.

As you prepare yourself before kickoff to think a UT win is possible, beware the dangers of alcohol poisoning.
 
#70
#70
. . . And on a random note because I haven’t posted in so long, how in the world did Phil get off so easy after the sh#t show he orchestrated with Pruitt? He should have been run out of town and his street renamed Loser Lane. He’s as responsible for that debacle as Pruitt. Pruitt should have been fired just for wearing that neck gator as a head scarf last year. Yes I mean it. Looking special on the sideline is a program killer. Appearances matter.

Sadly, IMHO Fulmer completely trashed his legacy.
 
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#71
#71
As for CH, who knows? Seems like a good guy. Kids play hard for him. Question is whether he can attract the talent needed to compete with Bama, Florida, etc. Frankly, I have my doubts, but am hoping I am amazed.
 
#72
#72
This isn't entirely true. It's not just Saban had early success. It can, and is being done by others.

Kiffin is doing it in year 2. They look quite formidable.
Pittman is doing it. Arkansas may have been in worst position than us.
Ed Orgeron won a freaking National Championship quickly.
Jimbo Fisher hasn't had a problem fielding a competent team.
Mullen is still Mullen. Rolling along just fine.
Harsin at Auburn, in his first year with the jury still out, just went to Happy Valley vs. top ten Penn St. and could have won the game easily, and gave them all they wanted in a hostile environment in prime time.
Dooley would have won with LSU's team in 19 ...they were wanting to fire O last year.
3 games into the season will will see how the season shakes out before we give the others Saban status.
 
#73
#73
Dooley would have won with LSU's team in 19 ...they were wanting to fire O last year.
3 games into the season will will see how the season shakes out before we give the others Saban status.

Hyperbolic.
 
#75
#75
This is the fanbase in 2020(2019 season). Not sure which coach the OP thinks we should have had more patience with. No reason to settle for mediocrity that none of us caused. There has been no explanation from anyone in charge that suggest anything will get better with patience.
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Our fans are passionate, but if it’s misguided passion I don’t consider it good. The environment we helped create has been hostile toward the players at times and more so toward the coaches the players love. It’s hard to enjoy the game when you don’t feel love from the fans. I think we’ve taken the fun out of the game for the kids and in doing so, we took away their winning edge. I don’t think we’ll start winning again until the players start having fun again. We can help with that by showing unwavering support. Let the AD and big boosters handle personnel decisions.
 

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